quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Hey, maybe the Akira is just WAY THE FUCK OLDER THAN WE THOUGHT, and the version we see in FC is just a refitted type!
Absolutely! Did it ever occur to you that the Akira-Class was created from the original design of the Enterprise?
Perhaps this Enterprise is a joint Vulcan-Earth ship, where as Starfleet builds ships mainly from Earth, the designs would be more utilitarian looking.
Since I am a big fan of the Akira-Class, I will enjoy this series even more. I pity those who are too obsessed with weather the design should be one way or the other, they will never enjoy the series as much as they could if they had an open mind about this.
There's obviously been some market testing here. If its a popular design, they will use it. They wont use a crap-tastic design that looks too 22nd century cause a lot of people wont like it. Yes, I know there are PLENTY of fans here that would love a true 22nd utilitarian design, but outside of flare that just doesnt work. People like sleek agressive looking ships. Theres a reason the Akira grases the cover of most novels/and all games its featured in, even if it isnt the strogest or central ship.
Anyway, this is a really exciting time for me.
I look forward to welcoming Enterprise into our new family.
posted
As people keep pointing out, and some people obviously still aren't getting, the problem isn't just the fact that the ship looks wrong (though that is part of it; some of us don't have superhuman powers of suspension of disbelief), it's also the fact that it's a blatant copy of another ship. I mean, what if the first episode, rather than being about Klingons, was just "Encounter at Farpoint" or "Where No Man Has Gone Before" w/ a few details changed, but so much the same that even pieces of dialogue were unchanged? Would you just say "So what if they're reusing scripts and putting no thought whatsoever int the show? I'll still watch it if it's good..."?
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posted
TSN , thats a totally differant matter , the Ship is not the story , the ship is just a vehicle for the story, if the episodes were cut and paste then the show would be dismissed as crap , but the ship is not meant to be the sole driving force of the show , the scripts are.
I mean , we could say the same about the ships in Battlestar Gallactica being derivative of those in Starwars , but the fact is the stories were entirly differant. So the guy likes the Akira , its not likes hes copying work from another Scifi Series.
I agree they could have been more imaginative , but I guess this is what they wanted. Like Wes says , sure we would all love a huge round Tin Can but if your like the majority of TV viewers wouldnt buy into that.
[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Obvious ]
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
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But as our beloved Berman said: "The terrific thing about this for longtime fans is that they'll get to see the development of all the technological gadgetry and capabilities that have become part of the Trek mythos. They'll see them in their infant, trial-and-error stages, before they end up being what we know them to be."
In the case of the ship design he was already wrong (because the Akiraprise is *not* in a visible infant stage), and I anticipate that we get much similar trouble even with the regular technology (think of transporters, supscae comms, FTL sensors).
posted
I tend to ignore Bermans ramblings , the man is a producer , producers are not creative prodigies they are guys with pocket books and budgets handed down from studio execs. He doesnt know trek. But I do agree with you that I hope this isnt a sign of whats to come.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
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posted
I'll have to agree with a point made earlier. Some of y'all seem to be involved in a contest to see who can complain the most out of Enterprise. It's getting really pathetic, especially since the amount of information is small and what information that is available is from "reliable sources." I would say "just give it a chance," but I've been saying that for a while now. It's apparently falling on deaf ears. Some of you would just rather go about your little online protest petitions and harp on trivial stuff than look at the good that this series can deliver.
Take a good hard look at that picture that The_Tom posted. Am I the only one who can see that this may be a hoax? Look at the unevenness of the outline of the ship. Look at the aft ends of the nacelles and the aft quarters of the saucer. This looks like someone just took a sketch of the Akira and used MS Paint to edit it. But, let us assume that this diagram is what it claims to be. Some of y'all are passing judgement on just one view of the ship. What about a side view, a bottom view, or a 3D pose? Nope, like I said, some of y'all jump at any little chance to start ripping into a series that has yet to premiere.
posted
For those of you who choose to be apologists for the producers of Enterprise or who wish to ignore ship designs, kindly allow the rest of us to be upset about this time-shifted Akira. If you don't care, that's fine with me. However, I and others care deeply about the history of starship design and have gone as far as to design our own historical ships. Unless front and side elevations reveal extremely primitive details, I don't think any amount of rationalization will convince me that this is a 22nd century ship.
I also think that using that tired "get a life" putdown is unbecoming for a Star Trek fan. We all choose our own levels of obsession: for one fan to tell another that he cares too much about their mutual subject of interest is to align yourself with the mainstream, which believes that caring at all about "a mere television show" is to be ridiculed.
posted
Masao, I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be upset. What I'm saying is that if one is going to balk at an entire series, WAIT UNTIL OFFICIAL INFORMATION IS OUT! Good Judas Priest, I just gave an explanation on why I think that photo may be a fake! I insist on basing arguments and objections on firm and hard data. And I get called an "apologist" for the producers. You take about "get a life" and "it's only a TV show" getting old? Try that damn "apologist for the producers" line.
I know you've done excellent work with the Starfleet Museum. I go there often and sit in awe of the stuff you guys have done. But the early history of the Federation and Starfleet as presented on-screen is sketchy at best. The producers, who are vested with producing the show, and the writers, who are vested with writing the show, have the right to go in try to clear things up. Most of the time, they do stay true to what has previously been presented. Every now and then, they goof up. But I guess if I say something about them "being only human" or that there is "thousands of hours of Trek," I'm going to be branded an "apologist," is that correct?
Yes, you have the right to ticked to kingdom come about any amount of trivial and serious details. But I also have the right to say that when one is flaming an entire show for something little, you are infringing on my right to enjoy the damn show.
The ship is an indicator of what sort of creative effort is being invested in the show. So while it's true that if they screwed up on the ship it doesn't necessarily make it an entirely bad show, it is a pretty damn blatant warning sign that we're going to have a lot more problems on our hands as time progresses.
I am really disappointed. This ship IN NO WAY looks like it belongs in the 22nd century, a hundred years before the original Constitution-class.
If it isn't obvious to everyone by now, (and it's been obvious to many for far longer than this) it should be: our buddies Rick and Brannon are on a crusade to wipe out the original Star Trek. I know people will say that's going too far, that I'm being a bit extreme. But it's true. They don't like the original show. They've never liked the original show. The don't want anything to do with the original show.
Hey, doesn't that mirror a quote from an interview with some Paramount guy? Probably not Okuda, he's too polite, but someone?
Anyway, I've had just about all I can take of their royal highnesses Berman and Bragga.
Okay, I feel A LOT better now...
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Actually, Sieggy, the cheap MS Painty-look is my fault on the cleanup job... I slapped together the enlargement from the original TV Guide article at 4 am last night and cleaned away the surrounding text and colors.
I'm quite positive it's legit.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
posted
Siegfried - I agree with you on the judging the ship by this one picture , to me it looks like those warp pylons are up turned , not down turned like the Akira, if they are facing up (I am Hoping) the ship wont look that much like a modern Akira.
Masao - I'm not being apologietic , I am just showing you this issue from both sides , the producers have their motives , now if those motives dont agree with yours , oh well tough cookies its their show.
I guess Paramount doesnt consider losing some fans a bad move if it will gain them new ones.
In my opinion , the trek we all know is a relic , existing only with the established fan base , not expanding. Paramount realizing this figures they will launch a modern Star Trek , its a gamble , but oh well , maybe it will work , who knows!? Maybe it will be a hit. If you notice, the word "Star Trek" is no where in the title graphic i saw.
Either way , all I'm asking is that you all wait and see , you all seem to be racing to see who can dismiss this show first and who can rip it to shreds faster.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
posted
Man This Topic is Just red hot , to answer the posts that popped up while I was posting mine..
Monkey Of Mim - As I said in my last post Berman and Braga are doing what they were hired to do , attempt to make Star Trek popular again , they were hired to take a dieing franchise and try to bring it back , I know I'm probley gonna get alot of guff for saying that but its true , The Original Star Trek is as much a relic as John Wayne movies , its a sinking ship and they cant keep shelling out millions to keep pandering to the same hardcore fans who they STILL cant seem to please no matter what they do. Star Trek is good for the silver screen but not a series.
Man I've gone from "Mr Canon Fact Nazi" to this , what a change...
Basiclly I'm still wait and see , on Enterprise , its an experiment , lets wait for teh results before we go on witch hunts.
Anyway , Six Feet Under is on , I must bid you all farewell for now
[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Obvious ]
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
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