posted
I didn't mean to insult anyone or to single anyone out (except, perhaps, the fellow [who shall remain nameless, Sol] who said "get a life"), but I suppose "apologist" is a dangerously loaded word. I was going to say "appeaser, but that would have been even worse. In particular, Siegfried, my browser window wasn't updated, so I hadn't read your post when I posted and was not responding directly to you. It's just that I get annoyed when someone tells me I shouldn't care about something that I care about. A "don't worry, be happy" attitude means "take it and like it."
I must admit, however, that a lot of what I've heard about the new show bugs the hell out of me. However, despite these strong reservations, I'm willing to give Enterprise a chance (surprise, surprise). While I've invested a lot of time designing my own ships, I didn't really expect the ships of the new series (I hope there will be more than one) to resemble them too closely. The reason I work in the pre-TOS era is that little has been established. I won't say that I'm not dissapointed by the route that the producers have taken, particularly as it differs from mine, but they have the perfect right to take that route as it is their show. On the other hand, what we've seen and heard so far makes me think they've made terrible mistakes in terms of ship technology, including power source, transporters, speeds, and hull layout. Can anyone honestly say that this ship looks anything like they expected a ship in 2150 to look like?
posted
Masao, I'm sorry for loosing my temper with you earlier. It was uncalled for; I'm sorry.
Part of the reason that this subject is so passionate (for me at least) is that there is a lot of negativity going on when we really have very little in terms of concrete official information. It's still entirely possible for that top view of the SS Enterprise to be a 2150 style ship. But it's so hard to judge based on one view. If the rest of the views turn out to show that it is simply an Akira with TOS nacelles, then, yes, I'll write a protest letter and mail it to Rick Berman and company.
I take offense to being called an "apologist" because I am not. I do believe in waiting until I see the first couple of episodes before completely flaming the hell out of something. If I get the feeling that the new series will be a joke based on those first few episodes, then I too will be upset with the producers and will join in a letter campaign against it. But I won't do that before I see the show.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
quote:Originally posted by Masao: I also think that using that tired "get a life" putdown is unbecoming for a Star Trek fan. We all choose our own levels of obsession: for one fan to tell another that he cares too much about their mutual subject of interest is to align yourself with the mainstream, which believes that caring at all about "a mere television show" is to be ridiculed.
You sir, couldnt be more wrong. There is a point in which an obsession becomes a mental disorder, weather it be a TV show or anything else.
When it is a mental disorder, people turn to these obsessions to escape other aspects of thier life. In the case of a telivision show following, it might be to escape the passive 'loner' lifestyle a child suffers at school, or even an adult in his or her social life. A lot of you don't want to hear it, but its a pretty widely known issue. Anyway, not that many of you fit this, but sometimes I wonder.
The bottom line is most of you will either watch it or not. No, you won't complain about it till you die, because if you don't like it, you wont watch it. The people who watch it just to bitch about it probably rode the short bus as a kid.
Those are my 2 cents, i'll probably throw in a quarter later.
posted
Wes: Of course, I'm excluding persons with actual psychiatric disorders from this discussion (in the interests of full disclosure, I have to admit I'm wearing my Capellan Teer costume right now). What I was trying to suggest is that to end a discussion by saying "you have better things to do than living in your parents' basement and worrying about such things" is not very constructive. Trek fans get this sort of put down all the time from non-fans who think they are being extremely clever. If a fan wants to worry about ship lengths or registries or the the number of hairs on Shatner's toupee, other fans should respect their right to do so. Agree, disagree, or remain silent, but don't tell them they have no right to worry about such things.
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Guys, need I remind you that when TV Guide posted pictures of Voyager for the first time, THEY WERE WRONG? The finished Voyager did not look like the ship in the picture from TV Guide.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I always laugh when I see someone on this forum tell someone else to "get a life." Most people would probably say that anyone who frequents a friggin Star Trek forum needs to get a life.
Not to mention the fact that most people who write it can be found in other areas of this forum obsessing over whatever their personal Trek interest is
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
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Thank You 359 , thats exactly what I'm saying , dont count your chickens untill they're hatched.
Masao , as a Trek Fan I'd have to agree with you the ship looks to advanced.
But i dont see why they still cant have a good show , though I'm not ruling that out i just dont choose to start make a noose for Rick Berman and Braga , after all they are doing what they were hired to do . You all seem to forget that those 2 people arnt the only ones on that staff and they too have bosses they have to please.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
posted
There shouldn't be any more trouble, unless, of course, that Sol System guy starts telling people to get a life
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Hey, what about me? I can start my fair share of trouble.
Just think about some of this stuff, guys:
#1. The bit about Starfleet being founded before the Federation. That's quite a stretch in itself. But what's sooooo outrageous is that this Enterprise is now going to be a STARFLEET ship. And, nobody sees a PROBLEM with this? It's been etablished for like...um...two friggin' decades that Kirk's was the first Starfleet vessel named Enterprise! Plus, the reg is said to be NX-01! You don't think we would have heard something by now abount an Enterprise that was also the first ship in Starfleet???
Okay, let's move on to...
#2. It has also long been established that Humans' first contact with Klingons was a disasterous affair, regardless of WHEN it happened (the dates aren't what concerns me most) and that there was unremitting hostility between the two up until Kirk's day. But, according to that marvelous script review, that's not exactly what's to become of this affair, is it now?
#3. The whole ship thing which I'm still pissed as hell about but won't talk to death anymore. Oh wait, maybe just a little bit more. I'm not saying the design isn't a neat looking design, it is. So is the Akira. but what's really sad is that that's all anyone cares about is whether the ship looks 'cool' or not. I would have no problem accepting this ship as a contemporary to the TOS style ships. It would probably fit in very nicely in the early to mid 23rd century. BUT NOT A CENTURY EARLIER!!!! It just doesn't look like a really old ship, which is what we're supposed to be talking about! A really old ship. It really should look more like the flippin' Phoenix, damn it all!
Okay, I'm done with that little rant. Tune in tomorrow, kids...
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
quote:The bit about Starfleet being founded before the Federation. That's quite a stretch in itself.
Not really. As I've said before, the only on-screen evidence for Starfleet being founded at the same time as the Federation is a date of 2161 on the Starfleet Academy banner. And as I've also said before, there could have been another entity that served as a training institution prior to the Starfleet Academy.
quote:But what's sooooo outrageous is that this Enterprise is now going to be a STARFLEET ship. And, nobody sees a PROBLEM with this? It's been etablished for like...um...two friggin' decades that Kirk's was the first Starfleet vessel named Enterprise!
Well, has it been expressly said that the NCC-1701 was the first vessel named Enterprise in Starfleet? Assuming so, could it not be possible that this, the SS Enterprise, is operating under the Earth Starfleet? And that after the founding of the Federation, the Earth Starfleet became the model for the Federation Starfleet?
quote:Plus, the reg is said to be NX-01! You don't think we would have heard something by now abount an Enterprise that was also the first ship in Starfleet???
You got me on the registry. I can't think of a way to get this to gel with the rest of Star Trek. The only possible way for me is to say that this is the Earth Starfleet and that the Earth Starfleet used a registration system that was also adopted wholesale by the Federation Starfleet. But that in and of itself is a bit of a stretch.
quote:It has also long been established that Humans' first contact with Klingons was a disasterous affair, regardless of WHEN it happened (the dates aren't what concerns me most) and that there was unremitting hostility between the two up until Kirk's day. But, according to that marvelous script review, that's not exactly what's to become of this affair, is it now?
You don't think that a Klingon being shot in a corn field by a human and then being returned to the Empire by the humans only to have that Klingon kidnapped en route isn't a disastrous first contact?
quote:I would have no problem accepting this ship as a contemporary to the TOS style ships. It would probably fit in very nicely in the early to mid 23rd century. BUT NOT A CENTURY EARLIER!!!! It just doesn't look like a really old ship, which is what we're supposed to be talking about! A really old ship. It really should look more like the flippin' Phoenix, damn it all!
Okay, first of all, the Phoenix was launched about a century prior to when Enterprise takes place. Not to mention, it seems that the Vulcans have some sort of alliance-type friendship with Earth. The Vulcans could have helped shape the design of Earth's interstellar ships. And, as I've said before, we're basing criticism of this new Enterprise on ONE view of a small picture from TV Guide. This ship could look to your definition of old based on the other views.
quote:Okay, I'm done with that little rant. Tune in tomorrow, kids...
Anyway, you do bring up good points, but it is difficult to make objective criticisms of Enterprise until we see the final product of the efforts of hundreds of individuals.
posted
Wouldnt NX-01 be Dauntless?? (assuming the man that created the dauntless had access to a federation databank before he made it)
Registered: Aug 1999
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