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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » Other Television Shows » This date in history, the legend is born! (Page 1)

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Author Topic: This date in history, the legend is born!
Pwesty
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Hi Guys [Smile]
I was looking over at the one of the Us Navy web pages and this was on their history page what on happen on this day. It�s kind of good and bad I guess.

TODAY IN U.S. NAVAL HISTORY:
May 18
1775 - Benedict Arnold captures British sloop and renames her Enterprise, first
of many famous ships with that name.

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Dat
Huh?
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Well, there were probably many British ships with the name Enterprize (note the "z" and not the "s") prior to the first American Enterprise.

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Is it Friday yet?

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Pwesty
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Ya I know that there is a different between the British Enterprize and the American Enterprise. But since Star trek is more or less base upon the US Navy and a lot of the founding fathers of star trek (Roddenberry etc) were ex-navy and ex-air force personal from WW2. It does have a historical tie to the US Navy today namely cause of the other nick give to today Big E and present day USS Enterprise (CVN-65) the fleet starship! ;-)
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PsyLiam
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Although the Enterprise was named for a US ship, many of the other original starship names used were non-US. Go, Hood, go! Woo!

As to that "Enterprize" thing, when did the British change their spelling? ANd is that ship in the Enterprise title sequence based on a real one?

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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Aban Rune
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Are we even sure that the sailing ship seen in the Enterprise credits is an Enterprise? Might it not simply be any of a number of ships of that era meant to represent early efforts of human exploration?

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"Nu ani anqueatas"

Aban's Illustration
The Official Website of Shannon McRandle

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PsyLiam
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There is that plaque that says "HMS Enterprize" next to it.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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Timo
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The time ENT came out, I remember people saying that the z spelling was never used on any known British warship. However, it may have been frequently used on *correspondence* referring to British warships, since spelling rules weren't very rigorous back in those days.

In any case, not all the vehicles shown in the ENT opening credits are named Enterprise. Or at least weren't in our universe. After the first actual Enterprise (the shuttle orbiter, although that pic actually appears to be doctored from an Endeavour pic), we get some known non-Enterprises including Cochrane's Phoenix. So there's good reason to believe that the other spacecraft might be non-Enterprises as well.

As for the sloop Enterprise from the War of Independence, read Diane Carey's short story on her in the "Enterprise Logs" anthology...
An interesting naval battle, fought at anchor!

Timo Saloniemi

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PsyLiam
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Doesn't the image look more like a plaque though, rather than general correspondence? If it's a mistake, where did TPTB get the idea that the British used to spell Enterprise with a "Z"?

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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Wraith
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Probably because we wierd Brits spell everything strangely.

Although in the Universal Directory of Great Britain (1790) HMS Enterprize (28) is in ordinary at Deptford. See here

But the spelling had definitely changed by 1918

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"I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw

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J
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I get the feeling for some reason that the reason we have a lot of British names in early trek is because they were Battleships. Hood and Lexington both were Battleships in the British fleet IIRC during WWII. Perhaps the others were too?

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Later, J
_ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _
The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.

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Dat
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Even though it seems that Starfleet is based off the US Navy, one has to remember the US Navy is based off the Royal Navy. They were the ones that got the reformed and modernized navy that everyone else followed.

And Lexington was an American carrier in WW2. But let's see:

Enterprise: most famous as an American carrier in WW2, though there was also an HMS Enterprise during that time.

Defiant: no reference

Lexington: I just stated above

Yorktown: American carriers in WW2

Constitution: American Revolutionary War frigate still in active service

Constellation: no WW2 reference except it almost became an American battlecruiser, though 1800's American frigate still intact

Farragut: no WW2 reference that I'm aware of, but would likely be only American ships

Republic: unknown

Potemkin: Russian, though I believe it came from a fiction source

Hood: British battleship in WW2, though was it a battlecruiser?

Excalibur: I believe it came from a fiction source

Essex: American carrier in WW2

Kongo: Japanese battleship in WW2 I believe

Intrepid: American carrier in WW2 I believe

Exeter: British warship in WW2 I believe (don't recall type though)

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Is it Friday yet?

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PsyLiam
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I notice that there's an Essex in that list from 1970.

Couldn't the US navy come up with any names by themselves?

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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Dat
Huh?
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Psy, if you're referring to my list, Essex from 1970 most likely would still be the same carrier from WW2. And really, many American ship names came from the Brits. After all, the language is called English and not American.

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Is it Friday yet?

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PsyLiam
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I meant 1790, and Wraith's list. My bad.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Well, the US has always named a lot of ships after places. And a lot of US place names are the same as British place names, given that much of the original US was settled by the British.
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