Flare Sci-fi Forums
Flare Sci-Fi Forums
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
Post New Topic  
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » Other Television Shows » $$ Sie kamen aus die Zukunft! $$ (Page 6)

  This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8   
Author Topic: $$ Sie kamen aus die Zukunft! $$
J
Active Member
Member # 608

 - posted      Profile for J     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, I can revise it to consider the Russians more prominately, but I had taken care of that in the first post! First off, Germany could have won the air war over Britain--- but tied in with that the Battle of the Atlantic had to go towards the Germans. Britain was being resupplied too fast for the Germans to handle. However, taking Britain out of the war meant that the Germans didn't have to worry about that front--- free up assets for the other front.

Now, back to what I said in the original post. The Caucasus Mts is where Hitler lost with Russia. He shouldn't have split his forces, he should have taken those Mts and then moved on to Moscow afterwards.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Axis powers were defeated--- but hindsight seems to indicate we were lucky because Hitler was greedy and stupid. Of course, what power hungry meglomanic isn't greedy and stupid?

--------------------
Later, J
_ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _
The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.

me@webj.cjb.net
http://webj.cjb.net

Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
Member # 646

 - posted      Profile for The Mighty Monkey of Mim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Harry:
Actually, no. His most important goal was to create a German Lebensraum in (Eastern) Europe, and cleaning that Lebensraum from 'Untermenschen'.

I don't buy that for a moment. That was the party line, but not the real deal. Hitler's hunger for "living space" knew no bounds, as his repeated advancements even after the territorial appeasements offered by the League of Nations showed. That was simply his excuse for his policy of agressive expansionism. And anti-semitism was just the tool he used to manipulate his masses. His true goal was power. Pure and simple.

I don't know what's the matter with y'all, why you're so touchy about Nazis being used, but personally it seems like a good Trek story to me, and I'm looking forward to it. You can say it isn't realistic, but what is, as far as Trek is concerned? And I don't care what y'all say, Nazis make the best villains. Look at Indiana Jones. Look at Hellboy. Nazis as villains = cool.

Somehow I feel like I just slit my own throat as far as this argument is concerned.

[ September 18, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]

Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Harry
Stormwind City Guard
Member # 265

 - posted      Profile for Harry     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, Hitler definitely craved power, but I'm sure he also firmly believed in the Nazi ideology.

My main concern with this whole alternative WW2 stuff is that it's totally going to be one big God-bless-America-fest. I already see the Evil Nazis being defeated by the American People Coming Together In The Face of Danger. It's making my skin crawl.

I think you can very clearly see the completely different views of WW2 by comparing this ENT-storyline to the current German movie "Der Untergang". Germany (and Europe in general) is slowly coming to grips with it's past, and is trying to understand how Hitler and the Holocaust were allowed to happen. America, OTOH, seems to be quite happy with the Nazis as onedimensional Villains.

I might be overreacting. But I do feel that this has the possibility of becoming one of the worst episodes of Star Trek ever.

--------------------
Titan Fleet Yards | Memory Alpha

Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Austin Powers
Slightly warped
Member # 250

 - posted      Profile for Austin Powers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I completely agree with you.

"Der Untergang" is a perfect example that shows how different the European movie industry is from the one in Hollywood.
And by the way, a very ironic fact: in this film Hitler is played by a Jewish actor!

--------------------
Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning.
- Red Dwarf "The Last Day"

Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
Member # 646

 - posted      Profile for The Mighty Monkey of Mim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, there are films/shows made for historical perspective and the are films/shows made for entertainment. I thought we were dealing with the latter here.
Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Harry
Stormwind City Guard
Member # 265

 - posted      Profile for Harry     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And that's exactly the problem. They're using the Nazis as entertainment, while they should be used as in an historical perspective.

--------------------
Titan Fleet Yards | Memory Alpha

Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

 - posted      Profile for TSN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"We know that the TCW aliens are supposed to be laying low (so that most of the world doesn't know of their interference), so the weaponry can't have affected things too much."

People keep saying this, but there are many more ways for the aliens to help the Nazis besides handing them rayguns. Introducing a plague into the populations of Germany's enemies, or example. Or sabotaging their weapons/supplies/etc. without ever leaving orbit.

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Austin Powers
Slightly warped
Member # 250

 - posted      Profile for Austin Powers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The more I read about this shit, the more I know why I hate Berman & Braga for what they have done to Star Trek.

Nazi aliens, tits galore, entire episodes about the captain's dog... WTF!?!?
I'm amazed that ANYONE still watches that stuff. As if Voyager wasn't bad enough, no, they managed to make it even worse.

--------------------
Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning.
- Red Dwarf "The Last Day"

Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

 - posted      Profile for Jason Abbadon     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Harry:
And that's exactly the problem. They're using the Nazis as entertainment, while they should be used as in an historical perspective.

They should be used for target practice and the occasional Mel Brooks punchline.
That's my perspective- half of my family was killed by them, after all. [Wink]

Sure, many soldiers were thrust into their wartime roles and I'm sure many grunts and civillians knew nothing of the camps...but most wholly supported Hitler's anti-jewish rethoric and ALL those fuckers in black knew exactly what was going on.

Theres a lot of resentment here towards a percieved notion that americans think they won the war single handedly: that's hollywood bullshit.
No one I've ever met believes that.

Remember atht Enterprise IS "entertainment" nad I would'nt be overly concerned about them making all germans out to be monsters....aliens, mabye, but not monsters. [Big Grin]

It'll still be superior to the TOS treatment, I'm sure.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Austin Powers
Slightly warped
Member # 250

 - posted      Profile for Austin Powers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll stick with TOS versus that ENT shit anytime. You call that entertainment? Most episodes I have seen so far were as dull as a bucket of mud.

So far I haven't seen any entertaining ENT episodes.

--------------------
Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning.
- Red Dwarf "The Last Day"

Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mikey T
Driven
Member # 144

 - posted      Profile for Mikey T     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I kinda agree with Mr. Powers on the fact that I haven't seen any entertaining episodes... that much. The only thing that was close was Zero Hour.

--------------------
"It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans."
-Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek

Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged
Omega
Some other beginning's end
Member # 91

 - posted      Profile for Omega     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[edit: what the frell was THAT? Big big time delay in posts showing up, or the clocks are screwed up, one of the two.]
Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
Member # 646

 - posted      Profile for The Mighty Monkey of Mim     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge:
I kinda agree with Mr. Powers on the fact that I haven't seen any entertaining episodes... that much. The only thing that was close was Zero Hour.

Funny that that's the one they're complaining about.
Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Austin Powers
Slightly warped
Member # 250

 - posted      Profile for Austin Powers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's on tonight. Zero Hour I mean. Unfortunately on standard broadcast which I can't seem to get here. My friend only has cable and I think they are only showing VOY eps tonight.

--------------------
Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning.
- Red Dwarf "The Last Day"

Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
MarianLH
Active Member
Member # 1102

 - posted      Profile for MarianLH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:
It'll still be superior to the TOS treatment, I'm sure.
I wouldn't bet on it. For all its campiness, "Patterns of Force" was probably Star Trek's best use of Nazis. Which, admittedly, is like saying that curdled milk smells better than rotten eggs, but still...

It's the only ep that actually deals with totalitarianism and its causes. Everything since has not only used Nazis as cookie-cutter, punchout villians, but has also made them something external, something other, not an evil that we ourselves are capable of and must guard against.

This new batch of Nazi aliens might break that trend, but I won't put any money on it. [Razz]


Marian


This random sig quote is brought to you by an actual USAF control tower:
"If it is an American Airlines flight, it is 3 o'clock. If it is an Air Force plane, it is 1500 hours. If it is a Navy aircraft, it is 6 bells. If it is an Army aircraft, the big hand is on the 12 and the little hand is on the 3. If it is a Marine Corps aircraft, it's Thursday afternoon."

Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
  This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8   

Post New Topic  
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
Open Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


© 1999-2008 Solareclipse Network.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3