posted
I dont know either...I also (normally) avoid spoilers, but I cant see them just writing off the TCW...mabye putting it on the back-burner with only an episode or two pers season, but not eliminating it all together.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Well, it shouldn't be the Nexus . . . 2137 and 2176 are the dates for that, with Enterprise falling smack in the middle. They'd have to make the Generations Nexus the Summer Nexus versus a Winter Nexus or something.
I'm fairly certain that this "small" date disrepancy isn't going to stop them from using that plot device
-------------------- "Do I remember about my amnesia?"
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Clarifiaction: TNG, DS9 are both after kirk "died". Neither series needed him in it to be great- neither does Enterprise. It's a cheap gimmick in a series leaden down with far too many already.
Such things shout "Desperate for any ratings" rather than "quality".
I agree that it's obviously a ratings gimmick. So were "Unification," (which additionally was a shameless TUC plug) "Relics," and "Trials and Tribble-ations," not to mention the Defiant and the whole friggin' Dominion War. (And look how well the latter turned out.)
Manny Coto, who helms this new season of ENT, is a very big TOS fan and is going to great lengths to tie them together. Backing him up are Mike Sussman (big fan, good writer) and the Reeves-Stevensons (big fans, occasionally good writers). To one who has kept up with the spoilers, the fourth season sounds quite frankly like a fanboy's wet dream.
And I'm all over that shit.
And while I'm with you on DS9, TNG better than TOS? No friggin' way, man. Not that it wasn't good, (in its middle seasons anyway) but it was no TOS.
And Kirk is THE MAN.
There's always been a balance (or at least a pendulum swing) in Trek between plot-driven and character-driven stories and I think this is a good thing. There's room for variation while still keeping within the mythos. I enjoy all of it to some degree (even Voyager, on occasion) simply because its Trek. I like having a wide selection. Obviously, so do a few other people, as it's been going on for roughly 40 years.
That being said, I do hope that it doesn't turn out as lame as "Shatner's" (read as "the Reeves-Stevensons'") Return novels, but at the moment I have no reason to think it will.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I do hope that it doesn't turn out as lame as "Shatner's" (read as "the Reeves-Stevensons'") Return novels, but at the moment I have no reason to think it will.
-MMoM
THANK YOU! That's excatly what I fear will happen: we'll see it become "The Kirk show" with a non-stop ego-trip for billy-boy and stories soooooo lame that even the most rabid fanboy would cringe in his mother's basement.
I cant even look at one of those covers without feeling ill that they've catered an ENTIRE SERIES of novels to one man's ego.
I have high hopes for Coto's term at the helm but I worry so..
Time travel aside, they need to leave him dead on Veridian Six: no "Return" nonsense.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Berman said that if a deal could be reached, Shatner would play "an incarnation of Captain Kirk" in a storyline that "would have to do with an alternate reality." Previously executive producer Manny Coto had indicated that if Shatner played Kirk, it would be the authentic character, not an alternate universe version.
. . . So they can't even get their stories straight. Or, more likely, Berman knows that once they bring the "proper" Kirk back, the fan pressure to do more with him would be enormous. Coto, by his own admission looking at it more from the fan perspective, knows that the only way to really satisfy the punters is to have the real deal.
An alternate-universe Kirk wouldn't provide the necessary "oomph" and would be disrespectful to the memory of the character; the only exception would perhaps be the Mirror Kirk, and that might remind too many people of the Emperor Tiberius from the Return novels.
posted
Does that matter that much, though? How many people are likely to notice? Of those, how many are likely to care, or think it is a bad thing rather than "Oh boy, now maybe we can finally get that Federation movie made!!!"?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Maybe I phrased that last bit wrong. Shatner - or rather the Reeves-Stevenses (we hates it! we hates it for ever!) - had enough of a struggle tying together the Mirror Universe suggested by "Mirror, Mirror" with the outcome that we saw in DS9. I don't know how many people actually read those books, maybe to most the idea of a mad emperor Tiberius would be a new and novel idea. It's far more likely that instead all the Jasons of this world who hold DS9 as the pinnacle of Trek would be offended at anything which contradicted their idea of the Mirror Universe.
There are a lot of people out there who love TOS. God knows enough of them are prop-fans (for every one of them who bought one of the Master Replicas TOS phasers, there were two more who refused to because it wasn't accurate in some minute detail). Bringing Shatner back is an attempt to get them interested in Trek again.
posted
Oh, I agree with that. I guess I'm just saying that the majority of people to whom Captain Kirk = Star Trek are probably people with fond memories of the old show, possibly not even their own, who have since gone on to other things, and not, for the most part, people who have kept up with Star Trek, even in novel form.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Maybe. My mind is popping a metaphoric clutch at the distinction in this case, at the moment.
Registered: Mar 1999
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: So, like, I haven't been reading intensely detailed descriptions of upcoming Enterprise episodes; is the Temporal Cold War resolution an actual clearing of the table, as it were, or just a sort of, look, here are some answers, now we won't talk about this for a while unless, you know, we want to later sort of thing?
Because if they do a story firmly establishing that the Temporal War is over, then its not entirely unlikely that a few years later Daniels some other version of Daniels or FG from "before" the war ended will appear, stopping off in 2157 on his way home from 2152 or something. Then Future Guy will reward some Klingons with Suliban-like ability to temporarily flatten their foreheads some years later.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Lee: It's far more likely that instead all the Jasons of this world who hold DS9 as the pinnacle of Trek would be offended at anything which contradicted their idea of the Mirror Universe.
Actually, I alwys considered the mirroe universe thing to be the weakest DS9 storyline nad would welcome seeing a crazy Kirk "Emperor" of that universe...that could be cool. What I find offensive is the larger-than death unkillable Kirk of the books that ALWAYS saves the day and just wont stay dead...
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
For the record, I was speaking of the character from TOS and the films. And I too agree that a good deal of DS9 (though certainly not all) is an excellent example of Trek at it's best. But of course I feel the same is true of TOS, TMP, TSFS, a bit of TNG, and some of ENT.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
(The first DS9 mirror universe episode was great. The rest: increasingly less so. Or at least so I recall; I've never seen "The Emperor's New Cloak.")
It occurs to me that, from a linear perspective, this Temporal Cold War might never end, nor would its combatants be discernable, necessarily, even if you were one of them. It would be nightmarishly twisty. How could you ever declare an armistice, or even a ceasefire? A war among time travelers (in a universe that allows for such things) could quickly become a war without a beginning, and how do you stop something that continues to exist when its causes are removed? I mean, what are the win conditions here? Maybe no faction, not even Future Guy's or Daniels', knows who their enemies are. A war of agents fighting the agents of other agents, where the true antagonists aren't just hidden behind the scenes; they don't exist at all.
But this might be a bit ambitious. And anyway, I get the feeling that a TCW resolution would probably propagate throughout the timeline, much like the destruction of those Expanse spheres. It certainly makes things easier from a storytelling point of view.
Registered: Mar 1999
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