posted
I was merely making sense of what he said. Obviously the ship is Starfleet because it has an NCC number and Starfleet markings. Obviously we know that the Phoenix was the first spacecraft equipped with warp drive. Therefore, it is both logical and reasonable (and somewhat intuitive) to rationalize that Scotty meant the first STARFLEET ship.
And, even with the Pre-E, we can still rationalize it by saying it was the first FEDERATION ship to hve warp. (In fact, this may even turn out to make more sense considering the registry number.)
Sorry for not spelling things out. I'll remember next time.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Oh, so now we're the ones who need things spelled out, Orlinger? Sometimes you need things spelled out. You have to be more clear in what you're trying to say.
There's a lot to be said for clarity.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
posted
I agree with most of the people responding. Considering there was a war on or recently finished when they made the Daedalus, it might be the best they could do because of limited resources. As to the S.S. Bonaventure, EEEEEEWWWWWWW! I like the Connie but that ship is just gross. First Federation ship designed with warp seems the most likely explanation of what Scotty says. I can see it as the precursor to the Connie, but IMHO it seems a stretch to place it too much farther back in the time line.
-------------------- Jack O'Neal - I like their style. Shoot first, send flowers later.
posted
Perhaps by 'Warp Drive', Scotty was speaking more narrowly than we would, or later Starfleet officers would. If I recall correctly, it was stated (by Riker in some TNG episode, iirc) that warp coils were not invented until the 22nd century. Perhaps in the TOS era, a ship had a 'warp drive' if it had 'warp coils', and earlier designs like the phoenix had a different name (like 'subspace superimpellor' to use one term I've heard). Later, by the TNG era, the name 'warp drive' had become generalized to embrace all such related coil methods.
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posted
Sorry to interrupt, but why again have we sidetracked this thread into an attempt to bend over backwards in order to "rationalize" an inconsistency originating in non-canon Trek?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Did the episode give any sort of dating clues for the Bonaventure?
-------------------- "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
Registered: Mar 1999
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Until recently, I was happy to interpret the ugly little ship as the first to have had an "Enterprise-class" warp drive installed. Just the sort of thing Scotty would get nostalgic about. "Ach, before the good old PB-28SP model, you couldna call them warp engines for real!"...
The ship in that scenario would have dated back to the early 23rd century, perhaps the 2230s or so - that would have explained the TOS-style markings on her, and the TOS-like saucer-hulled design, and would still have allowed for some time to have passed, to justify the line "the descendants of the crew might still be alive". The Bonadenture could possibly have been the first ship to feature dilithium in the engines, or duotronics in the computers, or some other quantum leap in her propulsion or navigation capabilities that would justify calling her "the first".
But now that we know that saucers have been a starship design feature for all eternity, and that the markings haven't changed all that much either, I'm willing to squeeze the ship in somewhere earlier in the timeline. Heh - perhaps even a prototype for NX-01 propulsion systems, dating back to the 2140s (again not the very first ship with a warp drive, but the very first with something Scotty would dignify with the name warp drive).
posted
Interesting thought Timo. Did the Phoenix from FC have warp drive or just warp engines.(an arguemen in symantics, I know, but bear with me) My line of thinking is thus: Warp Drive = capable of sustained, repeated use of Warp, Warp Engines = only usable for a short period of time before they burn out and/or very slow Warp. Whle the Phoenix was capable of generating a warp bubble, it may not be strong enough to consider it Warp DriveIf the design of the Bonaventure had Warp Drive while the Phoenix only had Warp Engines, this could explain Scotty's statement. JUST HAD A BURST OF INSPIRATION. Don't ships draw power from their Warp Drive to run electircal stuff on the ships? What if the Phoenix only used her Warp Engines for creating the warp bubble and had an alternate power source for everything else. Then the Bonaventure could be the first Starfleet vessel to use its warp core to power more than just its warp bubble. Am I right or am I just babbeling uncontrolably?!?
-------------------- Jack O'Neal - I like their style. Shoot first, send flowers later.
Several people have asserted that the Daedalus class is much smaller than the Akiraprise. Several more have asked how long the Daedalus was(with no answer).
With the only canon image of it being a desktop model, how does anyone know what the size of the Daedalus was?
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
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Do you think Mike Okuda goes "Those bastards--they didn't take my conjecture seriously." or "I hope that the writers don't kill themselves trying to honor numbers I pulled out of my ass."
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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JUST HAD A BURST OF INSPIRATION. Don't ships draw power from their Warp Drive to run electircal stuff on the ships? What if the Phoenix only used her Warp Engines for creating the warp bubble and had an alternate power source for everything else. Then the Bonaventure could be the first Starfleet vessel to use its warp core to power more than just its warp bubble. Am I right or am I just babbeling uncontrolably?!? 
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