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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » NCC-1305-E (Page 4)

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Author Topic: NCC-1305-E
colin
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A small nit-
How could Cmdr. Riker read the registry off the illuisionary USS Yamato? We saw the same image that he did. The portions of the ship that would have a readable registry, like the ventral surface of the primary hull, were not visible. As for other locations of the registry, like the neck and nacelles, the angle of the ship prevented these from being seen.

I don't understand fully the circumstances that lead Cmdr. Riker to assumed that the ship was the USS Yamato.


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Woodside Kid
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quote:
You know, seeing as how NCC-1305-E was SPOKEN DIALOGUE and is therefore
CANON, it doesn't matter what the log said and therefore the registry is
NCC-1305-E.

Just because the dialoge is spoken doesn't mean it's right. In "The Royale" the surface temperature of the planet is given as -291 degrees, 18 degrees colder than absolute zero, the coldest possible temperature.

Or, if you like, there's the fact that Kirk seemed to be confused as to which century he was in by a factor of some 600 years (re: "Space Seed" and "The Squire Of Gothos"). Those are both spoken references, and they both contradict the accepted 23rd Century setting of TOS. If we can ignore those, I don't see how you can argue we have to accept the 1305-E registry, especially since it's generally accepted that the registry was a flat-out mistake.

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Sol System
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Worse than that, wasn't the temperature given in negative Kelvins? There's a neat trick.
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PsyLiam
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Actually, I don't think it was. Riker said teh surface temperature was "-291 degrees Celsius".

It still works out as being negative Kelvins though. Absolute zero is -273.15 degrees C. So the temperature of the planet is -17.85 Kelvins.

So the planet is almost 18 degrees colder than the point where all molecular motion/energy ceases. Impressive.

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Veers
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So we can't really say anything about the registry. But think about this:
Wouldn't it be more likely that a human (Riker) would make an error in saying a ship's registry, then the Federation flagship's computer? And, for all we know, Nagilum was somehow messing with the Ent-D's computer.
And so, MeGotBeer, do you accept the ridiculously low registry number of the Prometheus, because it was on the hull?

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Fedaykin Supastar
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watever happened to cynicsm? and the fact that star trek is fiction. Somebody pointed out that the creators of the fiction should be the judge of it. (canon).
In this case we accept that the 1305 (dash) E registry is in error, and we accept the new one. And we go on to accept whatever is on screen (readouts, audio/dialogue) unless the creators have admitted to there being an error>>??

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- PsyLiam; 16th June

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Malnurtured Snay
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The Case For Riker's Dialogue Being Correct:

Will Riker says "NCC-1305-E." Being that the Yamato is the Enterprise's sister ship, it makes sense he would be more familiar with the Yamato then just any average Starfleet ship.

Data, Picard, LaForge, Troi and Crusher do not correct Riker. While "The whole crew goes stupid" might apply to just about everybody, I can't really see it affecting Data, and at that point in the series, he was very likely to have spoken up with, "You are wrong, Commander Riker, the Yamato's real registry is 7xxxx."

There is evidence that Worf served on the Yamato (he was familiar with the ship's layout, and info from the producers and shows seems to indicate that ships of the same class can have different layouts) and he didn't raise any objections. Okay, maybe he was affected by the "crew goes stupid" theory of Liam's, but that still doesn't explain Data being quiet (I don't think he'd learned "tact" by the 2nd season).

This is my chain of logic for assuming that the Yamato's correct registry is NCC-1305-E. I understand that it may have gotten in the episode by mistake, but the fact remains that it got in the episode, and therefore can't easily be dismissed as "oh, we didn't mean to do that." I mean, if it was that easy, we could write Voyager out of Star Trek canon.

Now, okay, Okuda says its a mistake. But who gets final say? Okuda? Or the writer of the episode who wrote in "NCC-1305-E"? Why does one behind the scene guru's word outweigh another? Apparently, NCC-1305-E got through repeated drafts of the script, including probably the producers' read, the director's read, the actor's read, whomever else's read ... look, Okuda probably had a chance to read the script and just "missed" where it said NCC-1305-E. The fact is, only Okuda says its a mistake, and everyone else who read the script didn't say so. So what you want everyone to expect is that Michael Okuda has the final say in what is or is not canon ... sorry, folks, I like Mike a lot, met him a few years ago, but I don't see why his word over others should be "God speaking."

I don't understand why my position on this "issue" has people so up in arms, but I strongly suggest some of you folks chill out, remember that it's a TV show, and pull that big baseball bat out of your collective asses.

[ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: MeGotBeer ]



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Dat
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Now, MeGotBeer, I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, in matters like these, I say you believe what you will and so do I and it dosn't matter if we're in disagreeement. But, do consider what would happen if in a future episode or movie dialog says that the Yamato was indeed NCC-71807 or even if it showed the Yamato (time travel involved) and we see 71807 clearly on the hull. Would you then change your beliefs or still maintain 1305-E?

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Malnurtured Snay
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PopMaze,

I guess it'll depend on how the registry is shown. Essentially, I would only choose to contradict Riker's dialogue if the registry was spoken as NCC-7xxxx ... I don't think an obscure reference on an Okudagram should outweigh dialogue, no.

If the NCC-7xxxx was spoken as the correct registry, then I would assume that the NCC-1305-E was changed for some reason.

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Ryan McReynolds
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quote:
Originally posted by MeGotBeer:
I guess it'll depend on how the registry is shown. Essentially, I would only choose to contradict Riker's dialogue if the registry was spoken as NCC-7xxxx ... I don't think an obscure reference on an Okudagram should outweigh dialogue, no.

Ah, but I think nobody here is saying that an Okudagram outweighs dialogue. Certainly, all that I have said is that they are both canon, and both equally valid. There is no rational reason for dialogue to be any more canon than anything else.

And as others have pointed out, if you accept dialogue as accurate no matter what, it opens the door to all sorts of things. Canonically, the original series is set in 2200, the 2260s, and 2700 simultaneously. Why do you (or I) only choose one? Because canon is not absolute, and only one can be correct. You don't choose one based on it being more canon than something else. They're all spoken in dialogue. You choose one because the current producers intend for the original series to be in the 2260s, and classify the other canon eras as mistakes. You don't accept obscure in-jokes as accurate because the producers don't intend them to be accurate. But, for reasons unknown, when it comes to the Yamato's registry, all of that goes out the window.

quote:

If the NCC-7xxxx was spoken as the correct registry, then I would assume that the NCC-1305-E was changed for some reason.

And, I take it, you assume that the Celsius scale was changed for some reason, right? And the length of a year fluctuated wildly for some reason, correct? If you don't, then you're applying your standard hypocritically. All of those "facts" are just as canon as the Yamato's registry.

That's why I grant that the producers are fallible humans. They screwed up the Yamato's registry, they screwed up the Celsius scale, and they screwed up the dates. Star Trek is riddled with mistakes, and they can't all be correct, so the only logical arbiter of what it correct are the very people who made the mistakes.

[ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]



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Malnurtured Snay
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Well, gee, Ryan that's all very nice and well, of course, what you leave off to mention, is that when dialogue contradicts dialogue, we can make rational decisions about which one is correct, in fact leaning on the producers' opinions as to which one is correct.

The Yamato's registry is not contradicted by dialogue. It is contradicted by an Okudagram. And Okuda. As far as I can tell, only Okuda. Not the writer, not the director of the episode, not the cast. So who makes Okuda "God" of canon?

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OnToMars
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"we could write Voyager out of Star Trek canon."

YES!

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Sol System
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quote:
So who makes Okuda "God" of canon?

Um, we do, via consensus. Since when is this news?


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PsyLiam
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The celsius thing wasn't contradicted by dialogue. It was contradicted by people who understand our universe saying "That's not right".

The Yamoto's registry isn't contradicted by dialogue. It's contradicted by someone who knows Star Trek's universe saying "That's not right".

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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The359
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MeGotBeer, do you also believe in a USS Lollipop, since Riker said such ship exists?

He could have been JOKING and no one thought it was funny.

Also, just because YOU believe one registry doesn't make it anymore canon then the other. Like I said, you are far from being in charge of what is canon. You want to believe it's NCC-1305-E, then fine, believe, but don't throw a hissy fit when no one wants to follow your lead. We think it's NCC-71807, so leave it at that.

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-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans


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