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Author Topic: Okuda Map Image
Hobbes
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I think System J-25 is too close. IIRC, it's out in the DQ, instead it looks like it's in the BQ.

As far as 'neighboring' systems go, space is very big. So I could understand two systems, a few lightyears away from each other, as neighbors.

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I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.


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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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They never said what quadrant J25 was it, just that it would take a long time o get home from there, and that it was towards Borg space.

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J
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Humm.... uh, IIRC it was. Then again, all I am remember is Descent, and that definately was DQ. humm, oh well.

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Later, J
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AndrewR
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They never mentioned where/which quadrants that they were in in Descent and Q-Who?... and considering Q-Who? Was before "The Price" where they first introduced that alpha/beta/gamma/delta quadrant divisions... they couldn't have mentioned them being in the Delta Quadrant. They said it was System J25 and that at warp 9 it would take them more than 20 years to get home - I'm not sure on the exact figure.

The same goes for Descent - they didn't say which Quadrant they were in.

The borg aren't just in the Delta Quadrant - I would have to say that they spill over into the beta Quadrant as well... or that they have sparse areas at the fringes of their space... i.e. they wouldn't have cubes patrolling empty space for no reason... and that Q might have blown the Enterprise to the nearest Borg ship which was in the Beta Quadrant...

P.S. That map was made all the way back in season 1. Whoever has touched the map up assinging new planets and systems to random stars... the map might have been updated at one time to include 'Ferenginar' for the Art of Star Trek, but there are a whole heap like the Breen Homeworld that someone has just plonked in there. I'd take this map with a grain of salt - it is basically a cool looking map that just was a nice link to TOS from season 1 TNG showing all the planets that the E-Nil visited - I would take it with a grain of salt, considering what we know about now how the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, the Federation, The location of cestus III and the involvment of the Tholians into Federation/Klingon/Romulan affairs is known... when it wasn't known back in TNG season 1.

Andrew

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"Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)

I'm LIZZING! - Liz Lemon (30 Rock)


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Timo
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In "Q Who?", system J-25 was said to be about 7,000 lightyears from the nearest UFP outpost, so it must be either in Alpha or Beta. The travel time estimate was about three years, which is much faster than the Encyclopedia warp scale would suggest.

As for the "veracity" of that map... in the TNG
Companion, Larry Nemecek mentions an "art department map" which the employees apparently kept updating. In the entry for "Suddenly Human", he mentions that the Talarians were to the "west" on that map. Curiously, none of the published or leaked or even retouched versions of this "Conspiracy" map have shown the location of Talar. So that art department map may have been something different altogether.

Somehow, I doubt that, though. This map was seen in many, many places and in many, many forms. Not only was it a wall display of the above format in a couple of episodes. It was also part of a galactic "top view", a big unlabeled display screen seen in for example "The Emissary". Furthermore, it was seen as part of a similar but different "top view" behind the back of an Admiral Picard was teleconferencing with in "Data's Day". And it apparently served as inspiration for the map Dr Galen used in "The Chase", although the details do not quite match.

Timo Saloniemi


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PsyLiam
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"They said it was System J25 and that at warp 9 it would take them more than 20 years to get home - I'm not sure on the exact figure."

Or even the rough figure. It was around 2 years. And was completely inconsistent with the warp speed chart. The more things change...

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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AndrewR
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Bah - OK I picked a number out of my arse! ;o)

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"Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)

I'm LIZZING! - Liz Lemon (30 Rock)

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J
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I take it no one else paid attention to the Okudagrams in "Descent" there was one in there that indicated they were in the Delta Quadrant.

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Later, J
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The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.

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Timo
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Yeah, well, that was the one and only time we learned that there could be Borg in the Delta quadrant. That is, until Voyager's crew somehow jumped to this conclusion late in the third season. The audience certainly couldn't have known the Borg were in Delta, not without help from Voyager dialogue.

Before that, a nitpicking fan would probably have assumed that Borg home turf is in Beta, since that's the direction in which Wolf 359 lies.

A fun connection: originally, the menace of the Borg was supposed to be the same as the menace of the parasites from "Conspiracy", until writing decisions took a twist or two. And in "Conspiracy", we learn the parasites had been "clearing a corridor" by influencing Starfleet ships and installations in a specific direction. That direction included starbase 12, which is in the Beta quadrant as well (it's the one closest to Pollux, as per "Who Mourns for Adonais?", and we all know Pollux is in Beta...)!

Timo Saloniemi


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TSN
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Erm... Obviously something, onscreen or not, indicated that the Borg were in the DQ before VOY did, because I knew it...
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OnToMars
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I recall a conversation with the TPTB about whether they were going to show the Borg or not before Voyager even started. Their response was something along the lines of; "Maybe..." *wink wink* *nudge nudge* *whistles* *that clicky noise thing* *various other motions that the hotel guide made to Homer when he went to Capital City w/ Cindy Crawford*

I remember feeling, and understanding that this was a general consensus, that the Borg were in the Delta Quadrant, and that Voyager was going to run into them.

Might it be a line from "Q Who?"?

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If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.


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PsyLiam
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*sigh*

No, because as has been already pointed out, the quadrant system wasn't even invented until season 3 of TNG. It first appeared in "The Price" (and ST VI).

The Borg were not mentioned as being from the Delta Quadrant out loud at any point during TNG. The reason we knew that the Borg were in the Delta Quadrant before Voyager said so it for the same reason we know what a Nebula-class ship is, and did know long before it was said out loud: we're internet nerds who listen when Okuda says something like "The Borg are in the Delta Quadrant on my maps, kiddies!"

J-25 was probably in the Beta Quadrant. It wasn't THAT far away from Federation space.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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Boris
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The 1994 first edition of the Encyclopedia first speculated that the Borg might be there, IIRC. Look up the entry showing a map of the four quadrants.
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AndrewR
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Yup, Phelps is correct, the first appearance - that I know of, that indicated that the Borg were in the Delta Quadrant was in the first edition of the encyc. It mentions something about the Denkiri arm in the Delta Quadrant - maybe this was taken from that map? in Descent?

Andrew

--------------------
"Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)

I'm LIZZING! - Liz Lemon (30 Rock)


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OnToMars
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Ah yes, that most be where it's from. Those where the days when I read the Encyclopedia instead of had friends.

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If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.

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