posted
Apart from the obvious federation encounters of "Regeneration", The Best Of Both Worlds" and "First Contact", what known encounters is there of Federation ships and the Borg? When was the First Federation encounter in the 24th century? was it the assimilation of the Tombaugh crew members or the Raven?
Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
The Tombaugh was assimilated in 2362, the Raven left the Federation in 2354, I forget the timescale between the Hansons going rogue and the cube catching onto them but it couldn't have been more than 12 months.
Since we know that the disappearance of the Hansons was never solved until Voyager encountered Seven and it's quite possible that Starfleet never discovered what happened to the Tombaugh either so neither of these would count as a first contact. At least not a confirmed contact as far as the Federation was concerned.
Personally I'm of the opinion that Starfleet had known about the Borg way ahead of time, the Raven and the Tombaugh aside we know that at least 47 El Aurians made it to Earth as early as 2293. One of them must have told someone what they were refugees from, perhaps even given them a description of the cube ships, which would explain how the Hanson's had a description before the J-25 encounter. The fact that Guinan was the only one who had ever heard of them is hardly surprising, I'm sure Starfleet is aware of dozens of potential threats and they're hardly going to brief people who probably don't need to know.
As dodgy as "Regeneration" was it dose actually help matters, in my opinion because it gives Starfleet (both of them) a very good reason to keep a tight lid on the Borg threat, that being the Temporal Prime Directive, they would be afraid to alter the timeline and cause a paradox by alerting people prematurely. Indeed it seams that the Borg were well aware of the Federation since we know that in "Neutral Zone" they were probing the borders, the J-25 encounter was probably the only instance when a Federation ship actually escaped assimilation. Which could be the real reason why the Collective decided to attack; they thought their cover was blown and that the Federation would be preparing for them. So Q really did do them a favour, since they were coming anyway.
posted
I rather like the idea that the upper echelons of SF perpetrated a long-standing conspiracy to cover up the existence of the Borg, from the time when they were first encountered in 2152 onwards. The motivation would be prevention of panic in the face of the threat or some-such.
Privately, I like to fanboyishly fantasize that Section 31 was created because of the knowledge of such threats as the Borg. I also have a really wild idea that perhaps the whole Excelsior project had its beginnings in Borg transwarp technology recovered from the Arctic crash site from "Regeneration." Only SF couldn't figure out quite how to duplicate it, and that's why it didn't work...
Would make an interesting fanfic story, eh?
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
quote: Privately, I like to fanboyishly fantasize that Section 31 was created because of the knowledge of such threats as the Borg.
In which case they really dropped the ball with the "Alien Parasite Conspiracy".
It's certainly a good reason to start off a secret organisation dedicated to detecting and eliminating threats before they become a problem. Of course along the way the operatives began to loose track of the morals and ideal that were at the founding of the Federation.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
As for there being a Starfleet conspiracy to keep the Borg from being public knowledge to early... Isn't that rather like denying the existence of a SARS epidemic in your city until so many people have it that it's almost out of control, then going "now we'll try to contain it and develop a treatment"?
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
I'd think more like saying "there are no American troops anywhere near the city". If there is no way to alter the sad state of affairs, no cure to be found, then keeping a lid on it all makes sense. People will die happier. Or at least live happier until the very last hour.
posted
"There are no near indestructible cybernetic lifeforms in this city"
[In background] "Resistance is futile!"
"That is just my cousin. Ignore him, he is mentally disturbed.. Now I must be going."
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
"Regeneration" Spoilers $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ OK... I just saw Regeneration on tape the other day. Surprisingly... my biggest problem with it is NOT that Humans have now had contact with the Borg so early. As was mentioned before... that actually helps some of the Voyager chaos established in Dark Frontier.
What bothers me is that they were able to come up with a way to fight off the nano probes. Also... why is it that it took so long for the assilimilation process to take effect? The other instances of assimilation we've seen are darn near instantaneous. It took hours before Phlox began to hear the hive mind.
The only thing I can think of is that the nanoprobes weren't functioning very well because of the original drone's deep freeze. But that's a stretch. Is there some other reason you can come up with?
As far as other encounters, Janeway mentions another Captain who has definitely had an encounter with the Borg and apparently survived. Don't remember his name though, or the ship's name.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: As far as other encounters, Janeway mentions another Captain who has definitely had an encounter with the Borg and apparently survived. Don't remember his name though, or the ship's name.
Captain Amasov and USS Endeavour?
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Since we know that the disappearance of the Hansons was never solved until Voyager encountered Seven and it's quite possible that Starfleet never discovered what happened to the Tombaugh either so neither of these would count as a first contact. At least not a confirmed contact as far as the Federation was concerned. [QB]
Makes sense: the Federation has launched thousands of ships and lost dozens without explanation (or at least not comfirmed explanation anyway).
quote:[QB] Personally I'm of the opinion that Starfleet had known about the Borg way ahead of time, the Raven and the Tombaugh aside we know that at least 47 El Aurians made it to Earth as early as 2293. One of them must have told someone what they were refugees from, perhaps even given them a description of the cube ships, which would explain how the Hanson's had a description before the J-25 encounter.
The Hansen's description may have been pure hearsay or telemetry from deep space probes (we already know Starfleet had charted parts of the gamma Quadrant by this time via probes). The probes likely encountered a Sphere or something not Cube shaped so alarms never went off back at Starfleet after the "J" encounter. The Hansens may have been cyberneticists working for years on Bynar prior to the Raven's departure. It would at least explain their intrest in the Borg and their stupidity in going without backup and taking their daughter along. The thing I hate about the "starfleet knew all along" is that it makes for a crappy "X-Files" kind of thing in Starfleet. Crappy consparicy stories to come. It's FAR more likely that the Borg were only a very minor footnote in the archives and nobody ever kept track of them at all: No Starfleet ship had ever been lost (confirmed) to the Borg prior to the Raven and in the century between Regeneration and the raven's low key/ low priority mission to study a new species, the Federation encountered very real and present threats from new races and the occasional artifact like the PlanetKiller. In fact, it's likely that a team was assembled to continously study the PlanetKiller and not the Borg. [/QUOTE]
quote: Indeed it seems that the Borg were well aware of the Federation since we know that in "Neutral Zone" they were probing the borders, the J-25 encounter was probably the only instance when a Federation ship actually escaped assimilation. Which could be the real reason why the Collective decided to attack; they thought their cover was blown and that the Federation would be preparing for them. So Q really did do them a favour, since they were coming anyway.
Q really didint do anyone any big favors: The Borg probably were not intrested in immeadately assimilating the (comparativly) low-tech Federation untill the Enterprise demonstrated a super velocity drive far superior to Transwarp at the J system: the Borg could'nt have known that Q had saved the ship, they only saw something very useful to assimilate. They would'nt have been intrested in the Federation if Q had not saved the Enterprise. They sure were'nt intrested as far back as the raven's assimilation or even 20 years later in "The neutral zone".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
"Also... why is it that it took so long for the assilimilation process to take effect? The other instances of assimilation we've seen are darn near instantaneous. It took hours before Phlox began to hear the hive mind."
I believe Denobulans were supposed to have an innate resistance to the nanoprobes.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Plus he was standing in sickbay where he could have given himself a biiig shot to slow down his metaboslism and whatever tricks his people used when dealing with nano-tech problems.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Some sort of Denobulan super-immune system would work. One of the issues with proposed real life nanotech (aside from actually making it) is not having the nanobots rejected by the body. The Borg presumably have it down, but Denobulans might have some sort of extra phage that attacks nano (in addition to its natural, prosaic duty).
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
