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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » Klingon Bird-of-Prey Wing Positions (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Klingon Bird-of-Prey Wing Positions
Reverend
Based on a true story...
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Occam's Razor hardly applies to special effects budgets. As for the Merchant man, I'd say it was roughly the length of the BoP's neck. Bernd has already done most of the legwork on the size issue here and here.

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Treknophile
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Point taken regarding Merchantman.

I still find it unlikely that there would be two versions of the BoP - exactly identical except for size.

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Reverend
Based on a true story...
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Granted, I'd rather all the appearances of the "Big BoP(er?)" be replaced with a different design, but until they do a TNG-Remastered that's what we're stuck with. Just as we're stuck with the Delta Flyer's TARDIS like interior, the 70-odd decked constitution in ST:V, the two identical yet differently sized Ferengi shuttles, the bottomless shaft that starts at the bottom of the E-E in Nemisis, The HUGE spacedock that could fit the E-D through doors that were just big enough for the E-nil, or for that matter were too small for the excelsior in the ver same movie and dozens other similar instances. Such is life on a shoestring, it's not a big deal.
If it makes you feel better, the Big BoP's wings don't seam to move at all from cruise mode.

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Peregrinus
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And I've taken a Generations boxing of the BoP model kit, which at 1:1400, would approximate the ~330m K'Vort, filled in the existing windows, added more appropriately-scaled windows in the habitable areas, and completely resculpted the torpedo launcher and shroud to fit a dual-launcher array, with a docking port between them a deck up.

I've liked the Titius-Bode notion of ship proportions for a long time, and applied it to the Romulans, Cardassians, and Federation as well. Interesting things happen when one does that. [Smile] I like to say the smallest one (~110m) is the design the Klingons originally got from the Romulans, which they designated D12, and was retired when Worf said it was. They'd already taken those plans and blown them up a little (~160m) to make the B'Rel class, which went through several generations -- the older ones being retired, and the more recent ones being of the class to which the Pagh and Rotarran belong, amongst others.

But again, that's just my take on it. *heh*

--Jonah

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Treknophile
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I hate ambiguously-sized ships.
(sound of rage).

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Timo
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quote:
Does anyone have a screenshot of the BoP behind/above the Merchantman? Knowing the size of that BoP, we should be able to calculate the size of the Merchantman. If it's smaller than a shuttlepod - then no shots can be trusted for 'canon' scale purposes.
The Merchantman's not quite smaller than a shuttlepod if the BoP is about a hundred meters long (one of the guesstimates that might work with STIII/IV shots), but it comes close. No bigger than a runabout, at any rate.

Then again, nothing wrong with that. The same design was shown as a very small patrol type in "The Host", and in a similar role at ambiguous scale in "The Outrageous Okona". And the interiors in STIII showed nothing larger than a runabout cabin, with cargo tied down in a haphazard manner. The type could really be a runabout of sorts, rather than a bulk freighter.

(The same model later appears as a decidedly larger freighter type in "The Maquis", but that's about the only episode to give such a scale to the model.)

quote:
Besides, what possible use would a larger version of the BoP be? Why would it look exactly ther same? Occam's Razor.
If the BoP shape is the way to make starships capable of atmospheric operations, it would be smart to build several sizes. Landing craft were built for amphibious warfare in WWII using essentially the same basic shape but vastly different size!

And ships, being only partially immersed in a medium, aren't even the best possible argument for sticking to one shape. If function dictates form for atmospheric starships, a smart engineer might choose a single shape for which the aerodynamic characteristics are known, and scale that up and down as far as the laws of aerodynamics allow. Small for scouting, medium for inserting platoons and giving a bit of fire support, large for inserting batallions and leveling cities...

Timo Saloniemi

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Reverend
Based on a true story...
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I'm not sure if the aerodynamic argument holds much water, given that the wings have a square cross-section and as such generates about as much lift as a brick. To my mind the existence of two (or more) identically scaled designs is more about Klingon lack of original thinking, combined with a proportionally small number of ship designers. I think it was simpler for them to use existing hull frame blueprints and rescale than to design a ship from scratch.

Another possible (though not mutually exclusive) explanation is that since the Empire is a feudal society, most of the ship yards are operated by different Houses and day to day operations are not under the direct control of the High Council. So some Houses make their own decisions on how they interpret the Bird of Prey blueprints, which results in dozens of variations.

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus:
And I've taken a Generations boxing of the BoP model kit, which at 1:1400, would approximate the ~330m K'Vort, filled in the existing windows, added more appropriately-scaled windows in the habitable areas, and completely resculpted the torpedo launcher and shroud to fit a dual-launcher array, with a docking port between them a deck up.
--Jonah

I demand to see said model!

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Irishman
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No matter what we think of the effects shots, any authoritative BoP has to be large enough to contain 2 adolescent-to-adult Humpback whales.

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Timo
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...Unless Scotty took some lessons from "Terratin Incident" and shrunk the cetaceans in the transport process.

Timo Saloniemi

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Irishman
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LOL

funny, but they didn't look shrunken when Kirk and Scotty were standing outside the tank looking in.

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This is just fun...it's not life...keep this in mind and we'll all enjoy it much more

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Timo
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Magnifying plexiglass?

Timo Saloniemi

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Reverend
Based on a true story...
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Stunted growth from being raised in captivity?

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...what we demand is a total absence of solid facts!

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Timo
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...We did get a size comparison in the aquarium with the bathrobed Spock before any transporter magic was performed. (I trust the whale-head there was a mock-up and not a live specimen?)

Basically, as Bernd's pages show, it's just barely plausible to have two relatively normal-sized humpback whales inside a BoP that matches the scale of the "landed on Vulcan, people disembarking" matte painting. It would be a breeze to get them inside the BoP if she were as big as when shown relative to the whaling boat, though. And there'd basically be no way to get them in if one uses the half-sunken command pod prop as the yardstick (the BoP would be less than fifty meters long, then).

Timo Saloniemi

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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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Temporal compression. See, you travel near the speed of light, and time dilates. You travel through TIME near the speed of light...and SPACE compresses. I'll take my Nobel Prize now.

Edit: That was thoroughly tongue in cheek of course...

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