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Author Topic: Starship Construction Timeline
Sean
First Tenor
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Actually, now that you mention it, the Oberth DOES look somewhat vulcan. The secondary hull looks kind of like a ??Sulaya Class??, and the way the pylons form with the hulls harks back to the "ring" warp drive the Vulcans used.

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"Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity".
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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There's another thing that bothers me. That annular warp drive of theirs. If I understand the way warp supposedly works and how the field is supposedly generated, how the hell do you do it with a ring like that?
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Fabrux
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Perhaps the ring defines the outer boundary of the warp field and it is projected fore and aft to encompass the ship?

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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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Well in canon we don't really know much about the field, but in the TNG tech manual I remember reading that the field is actually a nested system of fields that push off of each other rapidly, formed by the veeeerterium or whatever unobtanium the warp coils are made out of, when plasma hits them. So in order to do it in a ring...what, shoot plasma around in a circle and collect it at one end and vent it out the back? Isn't that a bit convoluted?
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B.J.
Space Cadet
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Besides, the way you understand warp supposedly works would only apply to paired nacelles. The annular ring just does it differently. There's plenty of other non-nacelled starship designs out there as well.
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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
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If a set of rectangles can create a bubble why wouldn't a ring be able too? Just adjust the tuning of the coils.

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"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
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A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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Dukhat
Hater of Stock Footage
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quote:
My personal view on the Oberth-Class is that it is exactly as old as the Grissom's reg makes it look and the reason why it looks so radically different from most other Starfleet ships of the time is because it was mostly designed and built by Vulcans.
But that still doesn't explain why they were still in production in the 2360's (actually, your speculation makes it worse, because now the class is contemporary to Captain Ramart's Antares, which adds a few more decades to its lifespan), and why the Tsiolkovsky, commissioned in 2363, would have a 5XXXX registry instead of 7XXXX.

I was always under the impression (and remain so) that the Grissom and other ships of her class were brand-new as of ST:III, regardless of her registry number. I believe that whatever production VFX person was in charge of modelmaking at the time, simply used a three digit number for the Grissom because she was a small ship, whereas the brand-new kick-ass gigantic Excelsior got a kick-ass "NCC-2000" registry for exactly the opposite reason (never mind that FJ's manual already had ships with registries even higher, but I doubt the VFX people knew that, or cared).

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
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Man, I really wish they'd made Excelsior NX-5000. Would've been so much easier to work with. Ah, well.

The thing is, Oberth isn't a front-line ship; she's a logistical support design. It's not built for speed or combat, doesn't need to be capable of extended-range voyages, so it's not really necessary to update the design. It's obviously very modular, & well-designed & well-suited for its tasks, & the modularity probably led to later internal variants. We know it's so well respected that civilian agencies use them.

I see no problem with it lasting as long as it has because there was no reason to update it or pull it from service It did its job, & it did it very well. We've already seen how..."economical" (Frugal? Lazy?) Starfleet is with ship designs; as long as they work well enough, they keep making them & keep them in service. I'm sure it's only with the greatest reluctance & sadness that they ended Oberth production & designed the Nova class.

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Reverend
Based on a true story...
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quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Butler:
There's another thing that bothers me. That annular warp drive of theirs. If I understand the way warp supposedly works and how the field is supposedly generated, how the hell do you do it with a ring like that?

I imagine it'd work something like this.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:
My personal view on the Oberth-Class is that it is exactly as old as the Grissom's reg makes it look and the reason why it looks so radically different from most other Starfleet ships of the time is because it was mostly designed and built by Vulcans.
But that still doesn't explain why they were still in production in the 2360's (actually, your speculation makes it worse, because now the class is contemporary to Captain Ramart's Antares, which adds a few more decades to its lifespan), and why the Tsiolkovsky, commissioned in 2363, would have a 5XXXX registry instead of 7XXXX.

I was always under the impression (and remain so) that the Grissom and other ships of her class were brand-new as of ST:III, regardless of her registry number. I believe that whatever production VFX person was in charge of modelmaking at the time, simply used a three digit number for the Grissom because she was a small ship, whereas the brand-new kick-ass gigantic Excelsior got a kick-ass "NCC-2000" registry for exactly the opposite reason (never mind that FJ's manual already had ships with registries even higher, but I doubt the VFX people knew that, or cared).

I'm sure that your real world explanation is correct, the reg is just a product of the thinking at the time.

However, to me the "Vulcan explanation" works best in a retro active way. Sometimes you simply have to ignore the original intentions of the VFX people.
As Shik pointed out, this isn't a front line cruiser, it's a scout, a surveyor, a science vessel, probably mass produced for Starfleet and civilians agencies alike. It's the sort of design that WORKS, does the job and is easy to build, maintain, even swap out and upgrade internal components, so it could easily have a life well into the 24th Century. Put it another way, this thing is a tool, a flying tricorder if you will. Once you have one that works and can be kept up with the latest advances WITHOUT ripping the hull apart every few decades then why would you want to change it?
If the look of the thing bothers you, just have a look at some of the Vulcan ships from ENT and you can see that even in the 22nd century, they are structurally much more streamlined an elegant than the boxes, tubes and sticks approach Earth was using a full century later.
I'd also put it to you that it would stand to reason, given how advanced Vulcan technology was compared to Earth tech it's logical that they'd be the one's churning out the Science vessels.
I'm not saying it's a pure bred Vulcan ship as it clearly uses dual a nacelle drive and the colour isn't the usual red/pink/brown hue, but the influence is clear.
Or if it makes it easier...
 - [Wink]

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Sean
First Tenor
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And it's not like there were 200 year old Oberths flying around. They did build multiple batches every so often, so ad long as the design works...

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"Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity".
-George Carlin

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Dukhat
Hater of Stock Footage
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Hey Rev, that's a pretty cool illustration! (Although I still hate the design... [Smile] )

The truth is, what you're all saying makes sense. I'm probably just spiteful about the Oberth because it was used in TNG simply because of the laziness and budget-consciousness of the producers' unwillingness to build new models that would be more contemporary to the Enterprise-D, unless the script specifically called for it.

BTW, although my lousy cut & paste art skills pales in comparison to yours, Rev, for fun I made an illustration of a ship that could have replaced the Oberth, based on the Executive Shuttle from ST:VI. There were at least two of these models built, one that was turned into the Jenolan, and one that was used in ST: Generations. Since the models had what looked to be GCS nacelle caps in the rear, I turned it the second one into a verifiable larger starship a la the Jenolan, only more contemporary. It's flipped upside down and backward, so the Bussard collectors are in front, and the bridge is in the rear. Do you think maybe you could refine it for me? *NOTE* I got the bridge and the lights from the Pasteur illustration from the Fact Files, which was where I got the pic of the Exec shuttle too.

http://flareupload.pleh.net/uploads/341/oberthnew.jpg

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
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That's one weird lookin' flying brick.

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"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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quote:
Originally posted by Ritten:
If a set of rectangles can create a bubble why wouldn't a ring be able too? Just adjust the tuning of the coils.

What rectangles? Warp coils are semi-toroidal.
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Peregrinus
Curmudgeon-at-Large
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*grumbles at people still calling the Grissom design "Oberth"...*

--Jonah

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"That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."

--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused

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Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
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A hundred years ago, you'd still be bitching about the War of Northern Aggression, too.

You lost. Get used to it, move on.

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"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

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