posted
OK, so. Ignoring Enterprise makes things simpler, if not really clearer.
Worf says they didn't have phasers in the 22nd century. So they were invented sometime in or after 2200 (or 2201 if you want to be really Tim-like).
Then, it just comes down to whatever you think the Laser Pistols were - or represented - in their three appearances. They didn't look or act like lasers, so maybe they weren't and it was just a name given to them, maybe they were really phasers (or phaser-ish) in which case you can say "phasers were introduced sometime between 2200 (or 2201) and 2255."
Or maybe they were lasers (or laser-ish) and therefore phasers were new in TOS proper, first appearing in bulky rifle form only around 2265. So you can say "phasers were introduced in 2260 (plus or minus 5 years)."
End of story. Take us out of orbit, Mr. Su- wait, aren't you a botanist?
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Fusion is about as advanced as nuclear technology goes, I mean it is what makes stars go boom after all. As for the spatial torpedoes, I took them as being an early form of low yield subspace warhead. I mean they must have been used at some point by the Earth of the Federation before they were banned. Of course the reality is that the writers were just talking out of their collective arses again. They should have just called them torpedoes and be done with it. Either way this is a Masao thread, so again, just ignore Enterprise and everything within.
I assumed that they were called spatial torpedoes because at that time, Earth had navies ( Malcom's father mentioned that he wanted his son to join the Royal Navy), and would therefore have boats and submarines that utilized torpedoes. Since there were more than just one type of torpedo being produced on/by Earth, It might be just a name to differentiate the two different mediums in which they are used. Reed also mentions a Romulan mine having the same yeild as a Triton-class spatial torpedo, or something like that. Just like there are surface-to-air missiles, air-to-air missiles, ship-to-ship missiles, and air-to-ground missiles in today's militaries.
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posted
Perhaps. Just seams odd for serving Starfleet personnel to refer to them like that. I mean it's not as if they're carrying anything else.
"Malcolm, fire the torpedoes!" "Which ones sir? Spatial or Aquatic?" "The Aquatic ones Malcolm. The ones you use in water. We're at sea, can't you tell? Look at all the fishes and squid on the viewscreen." "We don't have any of those sir" "Well gee, I wonder why we didn't think to bring any..." Then there's the small point that Photon Torpedoes are so named to differentiate them from "Spatial Torpedoes" despite that given your interpretation a pho-torp is by definition just another kind of "Spatial Torpedo".
posted
I'd think that the designations would be used in supply lines, and such,where official designations would be used. THe torps might be officially classified as "Spatial Torpedoes", but onboard a ship I doubt that they would call them that, probably just "torpedoes", like our blundering heroes on NX-01 did.
And, when you think of it, there are different types of torpedoes. Bangalore torpedoes are used on land, but there are several different designs and types, just like there are several different types of aquatic torpedoes, and spatial torpedoes. Photonic/Photon torpedoes would be another catagory, with their own models, like the Mark IIV, or type XI. If Enterprise were to carry both spatial and photonic torps( which would make sense, seeing as how photonics were pretty much experimental), Archer would need to differentiate them somehow.
"Malcom, fire torpedoes."
"Which ones sir?"
"The slow ones that never have any effect on the enemies' sheilds."
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: So whenever I want to bug you really badly all I have to do is say how cool Enterprise is?
No, then you will be to me as one dead.
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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posted
Couldn't you just have said "dead to me?" ;P
quote:And, when you think of it, there are different types of torpedoes. Bangalore torpedoes are used on land, but there are several different designs and types, just like there are several different types of aquatic torpedoes, and spatial torpedoes. Photonic/Photon torpedoes would be another catagory, with their own models, like the Mark IIV, or type XI.
You mean Mark III, or Mark IV?
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posted
The most laser-like weapon I've seen in mainstream sci-fi was the old-school Colonial Warrior's sidearm in Battlestar Galactica (the real one ). Bright flash at the muzzle simultaneous with a 'splosion at the aim-point. Sure seems a lot like a CO2 pulse laser.
What we saw in early Trek might be more like what is being developed now -- where a laser ionises the air and the beam of whatever travels along that path. An ionised waveguide for different forms of plasma, depending on which collimator barrel/capacitor/whatever is in line with the laser? *shrug* Plasma is a more fitting real-world substance for what we observe.
I think the scary breakthrough of phasers is hwo clean they are. When somethign is zapped by it, there's some residual matter/energy bleedover into the surrounding area, but most of the object -- and it's explosive subatomic uncoupling -- is shunted into subspace or something like that. Which is probably what the "phase" part is addressing. At non-disintegrating levels, phasers seem to just have similar plasma-like disruptive effects as the older lasers.
--Jonah
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quote:What we saw in early Trek might be more like what is being developed now -- where a laser ionises the air and the beam of whatever travels along that path. An ionised waveguide for different forms of plasma, depending on which collimator barrel/capacitor/whatever is in line with the laser? *shrug* Plasma is a more fitting real-world substance for what we observe.
Wouldn't that mean that the plasma weapons we saw early on in Enterprise ( which I know is being totally ignored in this thread) be lasers? Or something similar at least?
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
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quote:What we saw in early Trek might be more like what is being developed now -- where a laser ionises the air and the beam of whatever travels along that path. An ionised waveguide for different forms of plasma, depending on which collimator barrel/capacitor/whatever is in line with the laser? *shrug* Plasma is a more fitting real-world substance for what we observe.
Wouldn't that mean that the plasma weapons we saw early on in Enterprise ( which I know is being totally ignored in this thread) be lasers? Or something similar at least?
Well no because a Laser is directed and amplified light radiation and Plasma is Ionized Gas, also known as the forth state of matter. Two totally different things. You can however use a laser to initiate plasma and another one to aim it but they remain very separate components. Even still, if you know Enterprise is being ignored here, what's the point in bringing it up? Do you want Masao getting Biblical on your arse?
posted
All the plasma weapons we saw on ENT were pulse-based anyway. I suppose it's possible that time and advances in science improved the basic flinging-blobs-of-plasma inherent in that method, into the channeling-plasma-along-a-channel-of-gas-ionised-by-laser method you're positing.
posted
Those ENT-originated plasma weapons, and the TOS Romulan plasma torpedo, seem like something similar to the Star Wars "blaster/turbolaser" artefact -- a somehow discrete packet of plasma contained by some kind of short-lived field. Again, can be laser-induced plasma, but that's not what I was talking about. Rev's right on. And Lee's right, too. But I wasn't thinking those were the same technological path.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
). Bright flash at the muzzle simultaneous with a 'splosion at the aim-point. Sure seems a lot like a CO2 pulse laser.
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