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Author Topic: RBoP Windows and Size
Guardian 2000
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Been trying to work out ship sizes for the assorted Romulan Birds of Prey, and I'm discovering that opinions differ pretty widely.

One thing I'm noticing is that most folks seem to be using an image where the TOS BoP has two window rows on the saucer edge.

But here it seems the ship has three (as others have noticed). The top row seems to have very large windows and may represent a tall deck . . . the lower two rows are of smaller windows, and the last looks kinda squeezed in. (It also looks like the saucer is thicker . . . the angle up to what would be (on a Fed ship) the bridge looks less acute.)

My thinking at the moment is that the side view everyone uses is inaccurate, and that the ship is probably about as long as suggested in the Star Trek Encyclopedia (192 meters).

(Sadly, though, I had to get that by taking a reasonable-looking (but unconfirmed) RBoP 3-D model and seeing how long the ship would have to be to make the saucer edge hit 9m in total height.)

Similarly, the ENT BoP has differing views about it. Rob Bonchune's scale diagram gives it 165 meters, which happens to be what we get if we assume the saucer thickness must represent at least two decks, then giving 6 meters for that entire height (thus assuming a somewhat non-standardized window placement).

The two window rows near the saucer top still don't enjoy that value, though, since they're closer together, and we would have to assume some funny business for the windows in that area. And god forbid we scale anything from those, because if you assume 3m decks then those saucer-top rows give you a ship of 430 meters!

However, the corridor heights seen on the Romulan vessel from "Babel One"[ENT4] are pretty tiny . . . probably not much more than 7 feet, if that. Giving some wiggle room and making it 7.5 feet (2.286m), scaling the saucer-edge window rows from that gives us about 200 meters for the RBoP of the 2150s . . .

. . . which, coincidentally, more or less matches the TOS ship's model window scaling.

Frankly, I'd settled on 200m for the 2150s RBoP just a couple of days ago, but now I'm leaning back toward 165.

It seems like to some extent it's a question of how the window scaling's done. Specifically:

1. Scaling from window-row to window-row based on a certain height (e.g. 3m), which can lead to absurdities depending on window row spacing variation.

(For instance, the Cardassian Galor model versus CGI have two different window row spacings, even though they ought to represent the same ship. Then again, there are to divergent views on the correct scale of the ship, so who knows?

And, of course, there can be spacing differences even with the same model.)

2. Counting total window rows for deck count, multiplying by a certain deck height (e.g. 3m), and measuring the whole ship or a portion thereof, including hull.

(This seems to be valid for the Bonchune 165m value.)

. . . and so on.

Thoughts?

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Dukhat
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quote:
However, the corridor heights seen on the Romulan vessel from "Babel One"[ENT4] are pretty tiny . . . probably not much more than 7 feet, if that. Giving some wiggle room and making it 7.5 feet (2.286m), scaling the saucer-edge window rows from that gives us about 200 meters for the RBoP of the 2150s . . .
But those corridors weren't on the ENT BoP, were they? If I'm remembering correctly, they were from inside the drone ship that was the "flea" ship from Voyager. (Although why they didn't just reuse the BoP is beyond me...)
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Guardian 2000
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Yes, but I referenced them to establish standards of Romulan design of that era, same as how Federation corridors were basically the same from ship to ship for over a century.

Of course, the 'real' corridors might be completely different, and of course I figure all of it gets tossed out the window once the Klingon design comes to town, but it's a start.

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Guardian 2000
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Hmm . . .

Going with the 192 meter RBoP results in a Romulan Bird of Prey with a bit over twice the volume of a Constitution Class starship.

I don't guess that's a problem, but having owned the 3-piece TOS model kit as a boy I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea. Then again, at that size the nacelles match up almost exactly.

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Jason Abbadon
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I'd discard anything on that awful CGI Galor class- the windows dont even follw the curve of the command pod!

192 meters long for the TOS RBOP could be right- besides, who knows how much of the ship is consumables on a Romulan ship of that vintage?
Or how large their engines and weapons are (internal to the hull).
It's a stretch, but Romulans sure build them big in later generations so....

It's more likely IMO that the ship is about 95 meters long and the windows could represent anything- even a circular zero-G deck along the ship's outer edge: making the windows along a "tall" curved wall the crew could climb along for excersize or sport or whaever.

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Guardian 2000
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Indeed, that last idea (of window/deck-randomness) is the sort of thing we *should* see in starship designs, rather than the ramrod-straight decks we pretty much always get. Though the latter does make our geeky lives a little easier, at times.

As for the Galor CGI, it looks like the windows at separate deck-levels. But that's because the command head seems to curve downward, whereas on the original Galor model this appears to not be the case:

http://max.klanky.com/pastwork.htm

Interesting. Never caught that previously.

Between the different window row spacing and the head differences, the argument for separate classes does have some grounding.

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Jason Abbadon
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Maybe a later run version of the smae class inorporates advances or seperate shipyards build slightly off-spec.

Or the cardies keep their ships in service (as they seem recource poor) as long as possible and one version or another is a "late model".

The Keldon for example is probably supposed to be an older or less-used design- eventually resulting in their use by the Obsidian Order less noticable.

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Fabrux
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I never understood the whole Keldon being older thing.... isn't it just a Galor with a thing on its back?

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MinutiaeMan
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Or the cardies keep their ships in service (as they seem recource poor) as long as possible and one version or another is a "late model".

This seems the most likely... remember that line from a TNG episode where they called them "Galor class, type 3"? That would suggest there could be several different variants.

Hell, how many different variants of the Miranda were there? [Wink]

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Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha

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Guardian 2000
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True, but we didn't have divergent size indicators like large window row spacing differences on the various Mirandas.

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Jason Abbadon
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quote:
Originally posted by Fabrux:
I never understood the whole Keldon being older thing.... isn't it just a Galor with a thing on its back?

Not when you add in those huge honkin' impulse engine "fins" they added to the rear...possibly to make the ship faster while compensating for the pod's additional mass.
I always figured that pod was a troop transport/barracks thing- making speed a priority.

Could be that the Galor Mk 1 got refit into the Keldon- explaining the same spaceframe while being "an older design".

quote:
Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
True, but we didn't have divergent size indicators like large window row spacing differences on the various Mirandas.

Miranda variants seem to have mostly internal changes- I bet the crew of the Lantree could have had a hell of a hide-and-seek game on a Miranda with a crew of 12!
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Starship Freak
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Considering that the Galor "head" was designed to be able to separate (Rick Sternbach), perhaps the Keldon thingy was as well?

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Jason Abbadon
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Yeah, it seems a standard module.
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