The design similarities to the Erewhon, Raven and Danube are quite intentional in case anyone was wondering.
This may or may not be developed into the ASDB's new Deneva design, since the old one is a little big for such a small crew, but we haven't quite decided which direction to go in yet.
quote: Sort of reminds me of a very large Eagle from Space: 1999.
I never did watch that show, but I know what you mean. The landing struts are something I borrowed from the Erewhon. I wanted something different and with lots of cool moving parts, hence the cargo cranes, the ventral cargo/vehicle lift and aft ramp. Just to irritate the 3D modellers of course.
quote: Cool design, though it doesn't look like it can hold much cargo. A light, short ranged freighter?
Not much? Those cargo pods are four stories tall and that ventral lift can hold a half dozen ground vehicles. Enough I'd say, to supply a colony for a year or two.
Also you may notice that the cargo pod section is a modular piece, so the cargo capacity can be doubled or even trebled, although it would require a short stay over in space dock.
Remember, it can't be too big since apparently the Arcos only had a crew of two, hence the need for a redesign.
quote: Deep space? Long range? For a four-nacelle design...
Pretty much yeah, it could also have something to do with being able to adjust the warp field to encompass more cargo pods. Perhaps it enables the ship to travel at unusually high warp factors for a ship it's size, for urgent deliveries.
For those among you who like more militant ships in trek, in time of war this class could easily become a military transport. All you'd have to do is enhance the shield grid, slap on a few defensive phaser arrays, replace the cargo pods with barrack modules, beef up the decent thrusters a little and Robert's your mother's brother. You have a heavy, interstellar drop ship.
I see definite resemblances to the "Space:1999" Eagle as well, tho don't think it looks at all bad or as if it were a "rip-off", as it's also quite in keeping with design philosphy we've seen in TNG Era ships.
And we have a British SciFi fan who hasn't seen "Space:1999"?!?
What is the world coming to? Is this a sign of the Apocalypse?!?
quote: And we have a British SciFi fan who hasn't seen "Space:1999"?!? What is the world coming to? Is this a sign of the Apocalypse?!?
Actually, I haven't seen it either. Although it was a little before my time.
Incidentally, has anyone ever done an intrasystem freighter? It just seems to be a bit of a waste to stick a full sized interstellar warp assembly with fuel etc. for stuff that just needs to be transported in the local area. Eg supplies to mining facilities in asteroid belts etc.(at least before replicators).
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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quote: I see definite resemblances to the "Space:1999" Eagle as well, tho don't think it looks at all bad or as if it were a "rip-off", as it's also quite in keeping with design philosphy we've seen in TNG Era ships.
I miss-labled the thread, it's more of an early 24th C design. Say around the 2300 - 2320 era. Note that the nacelles (preserved from the original Deneva design) are a deliberate cross between those of the Ambassador and of the Excelsior.
quote: And we have a British SciFi fan who hasn't seen "Space:1999"?!?
Well technically I have seen it, but I've never actually taken the time to actually watch it, ,so I don't count myself amoung it's viewers. If it makes you feel any better, as far as British Sci-Fi is concerned, I've never really bothered with Dr Who, Blake 7 or any of that Gerry Anderson nonsense either. Red Dwarf and HHGttG on the other hand...
quote: Incidentally, has anyone ever done an intrasystem freighter? It just seems to be a bit of a waste to stick a full sized interstellar warp assembly with fuel etc. for stuff that just needs to be transported in the local area. Eg supplies to mining facilities in asteroid belts etc.(at least before replicators).
I think Harry sketched up something like that a couple months back, I forget exactly how it turned out though.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Again, I like this & the update...but I still think there's just too many TNG & DS9 design elements for this to be an effective design for the Deneva. I see the Danube influences, I see the somewhat TNG-ish details...it just doesn't sit. I'd put that at like 2340, maybe 2360. It would make a great Deneva refit or follow-on, though.
Maybe instead of using a runabout & the Erehwon as your jumping-off points, you could use the Sydney/executive shuttle. Use elements from that bigass 2-man pod we see in Spacedock a lot. Things like that.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
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posted
I agree with the others who have posted before me, I think that the design is much too small for the Deneva-class. The design should be used for a, relatively, small utility freighter, maybe to replenish ammunition or consummables for a platoon of troops or a small colony or scientific base/expedition? Perhaps a replenishment carrier for a small base like the duck blind mission in Star Trek: Insurrection.
Regarding the size of the Deneva-class and its small crew compliment,I think its fine. I would assume that a cargo container freighter like this would be heavily automated and would mostly travel routes where it would not encounter hostile starships. It wouldn't need more than the bare minimum crew. I am thinking of the USCSS Nostomo tug from Alien , not the refinery that it pulled.
If the freighter was travelling through a combat zone or an area with a high cargo piracy rate, then one or more federation starships, like Defiant or Intrepid-class starships, that would have to accompany it like the Atlantic Convoys during World War II.
By the way, I am really surprised that no has posted a huge container ship, like a fleet replenishment carrier, ultra large container ship, or Acturan Mega-freighter from Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that is designed to carry consummables, fuel, or munitions to a fleet of starships or a star base. Something that is two or three times larger than any Starfleet starship we have ever seen.
May be it could also be used as an emergency evacuation ship for a starbase or colony, or used as a colony transport. Something that would have been ideal when that colony needed to be relocated on that world that belonged to the Sheliak Corporate.
I am thinking of a container ship/freighter that would be capable of transporting a colony with say 60,000 people with consummables and their possessions or hundreds of cargo containers. This ship would be say 1,254 meters in length, about the size of the Son'a Collector ship, and have a maximum velocity of Warp 5 or 6.
Because of its mass, let's give it horrible acceleration rates and slow impulse speeds. But this low performance wouldn't matter because this is not a warship, its designed to carry lots of stuff, and it wouldn't need to respond to emergencies.
Because the freighter would be so large and barge like, perhaps the RCS system on the ship wouldn't be able to handle manuevaring of the ship into a space dock or starbase and would need the help of large port tugs that would need to dock or latch onto it at various points on its hull. Or maybe the cargo would need to be offloaded in space to a smaller cargo carrier or lighter, which would then deliver the cargo to a space dock or other orbital facility.
Design wise, I am thinking something that would look very utilatarian and have all the beauty and elegance of a diesel locomotive. Think of a cross between the Typhon-class carrier from the Star Trek: Invasion! game, the Battlestar Galactica, and a modern day dry-goods/refrigerated container ship, with cargo containers stacked and attached (latched with docking clamps) to the outside of the ship's hull. It would be like a wideand long brick with four Warp nacelles attached to it. Compared to the Sovereign-class it would be ugly, ugly, ugly. But it would be something that the Federation and Starfleet would desperately be needing.
If I were willing to design the specifications and write a history of theses starships like the recent Starship Spotter, for example the specification and descriptions of the Isolde-class ultra-large capacity container ship or the Foss-class port tug, could you draw something like this with the intention of placing it on the Jornal of Applied Treknology Web site? I would have participated long ago in things like JoAT and Advanced Starship Design Bureau, but I cannot draw to save my life and didn't want to give Bernd my doodles.
If not, that would be cool too. By the way Reverend, continue to keep up the good work, I like your designs very much.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Ok first off, in regards to the crew size there is a distinct difference between minimal and miniscule. I don't care how good the automated systems onboard a ship are, you can't run a large sized starship with just two people!
Secondly, if I made this ship any bigger then there wouldn't have been any point in redesigning the ship in the first place since Jason's original ship is otherwise solid.
Thirdly the largest sensible fan designed cargo ship I've seen out is Bernd's Java-Class. As for your idea of having a ship with 60,000 people on board; does the phrase "all the eggs in one basket" ring a bell? The potential for disaster there is phenomenal and the task of maintaining that population of a working ship would be a logistical nightmare, especially in a universe apparently devoid of service robots.
And finally, as I've told others on this board I do occasionally take on commisioned work, but not for free.
posted
Thanks for your response Reverend, I appreciate the issues that you raised. After reviewing what I posted, I wish there was a message recall feature in the forums. Insert foot in mouth, chew vigorously.
Thanks for the link to Bernd's Java-class, I was not aware of this design, and it is pretty much the same idea I was thinking about when I proposed the Isolde-class.
Regarding the 60,000 person emergency evac limit, on second thought, I agree with you too. In no time that many people would be quickly living in their own stink. Logistically, you couldn't feed and tend to the sanitary needs of that many people for no more than a couple of hours. The ship, as imagined, is essentially a large number of containers strapped together on a warp sled-like space frame. Re-reading my post, it sounds like what I was proposing was in the real of the fan-boy "under" ships that are constantly being shot down, even though it was a freighter. Sigh.
I also appreciate your "eggs in one basket" comment. If you had desperate need of spare parts or munitions, you wouldn't want to entrust them all to one or a handful of freight-carrying starships. The threat of piracy or accident is too great to accept the risk of shipping them in that manner.
Sorry, you probably get the custom art request a lot too because of your frequent posts to this and other forums.
Just consider my post as a regretable example of newbie foolishness.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
There could still be a niche for gargantuan freighters in Trek - mainly in the ore hauling business. We often hear that ore is a commodity worth shipping, and bulk cargo doesn't get much bulkier than ore, with all the waste rock attached. A sublight or low-but-reliable-warp ship 16 kilometers in length, with a crew of zero, would sound quite reasonable. Piracy of automated ore carriers shouldn't be a problem - the pirates couldn't hope to haul away a significant part of the cargo anyway, and if they try to divert the ship, it will be trivially easy to catch.
But the Deneva in my eyes ought to be a short-range ship with definite TOS movie era elements. Leaning more towards Constitution than Excelsior, even. Something similar in size and perhaps design to the Merchantman of ST3... Heck, paint that thing off-white and you've got a pretty good Deneva right there!
Or perhaps do the forward hull as a miniature Connie-style hemisaucer, the mid-hull as a series of modules, the aft hull as an impulse cluster, and the "whiskers" as Saber-attached but Connie-style nacelles. That would look really Starfleety...
posted
I have to admit I'd like to see a substantial freighter design of some kind in the Trek universe, they must exist if Starfleet has any hope of keeping it's enormous Starbases supplied with raw material. You can't be as widespread as the Federation and not have ships far larger than the puny merchantmen and smugglers we've seen so far, they're just no good at hauling cheaper, bulky cargoes like ore in anything like economically viable tonnages. I think the only large-ish design I've seen was in one of the few Enterprise episodes I've seen, where the Nausicaans keep pissing off some slow freighter on a route to Earth.
-------------------- www.kennyscrap.com - where I download crap I make.
Registered: Jun 2003
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