quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: In Ep IV, when they set down on tattoine, he (it) immediately takes off in a certain direction as if he knows where he is, and where he's going. 3PO doesn't know where they are, but R2, it seems, remembers Tattoine, and that Kenobi is a residant there, and where he lives. He also escapes after being purchased from Owen, still trying to seek Obiwan.
I'm not sure this is really an indication of R2 not having had a memory wipe, as he was programmed with the mission of going to Tatooine and finding Kenobi by Leia at the beginning of the film.
quote:It is also mentioned that Obiwan once owned this R2 unit, R2 remembers it, Obiwan doesn't though "I don't seem to recall owning any droids before..." Maybe he's getting senile in his old age. But I thought that this was quite a nice touch in continuity with the prequels.
But Obi-Wan never *did* own R2, nor (that we have seen in the prequels or elsewhere) any other droid. I'm a-thinking that the "I am the property of Obi-Wan Kenobi" bit was just the method for relaying Leia's message.
quote:About these mysterious 'Meta-clorines' (sic) - the organisms that give rise to the force. Did this exist in Wars canon before Ep I came along?
As far as I know, the midichlorians (that's the proper spelling, I think) were invented by Lucas for Episode I, as a way of pseudo-scientifically "explaining" what the Force really is.
Personally, I thought it sounded forced (no pun intended ) and pretty damned lame. IMO it would have been better to just leave the Force's description as it was given by Obi-Wan in ANH, ("...an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the Galaxy together.") and leave the molecular biology ambiguous. That may be the kind of thing that Trek is about, but it destroys some of the wonder and mystery of Star Wars.
quote: As far as I know, the midichlorians (that's the proper spelling, I think) were invented by Lucas for Episode I, as a way of pseudo-scientifically "explaining" what the Force really is.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Lucas had always had the midichlorians in mind from the start and that TPM was the first opportunity he had to explain their association to the force. While you might argue that it destroys the mystic quality of the Jedi, you could also say that it shows the Jedi to be very aware of the origins and reasons for their powers. Since Lucas has apparently used elements from Frank Herbert's Dune universe (among other sources of course) you might say that midichlorians are Star Wars's equivalent to the Spice Melange.
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quote:Personally, I thought it sounded forced (no pun intended ) and pretty damned lame. IMO it would have been better to just leave the Force's description as it was given by Obi-Wan in ANH, ("...an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the Galaxy together.") and leave the molecular biology ambiguous. That may be the kind of thing that Trek is about, but it destroys some of the wonder and mystery of Star Wars.
Absolutely. Ben's explanation should have been allowed to stand on its own.
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quote:Personally, I thought it sounded forced (no pun intended ) and pretty damned lame. IMO it would have been better to just leave the Force's description as it was given by Obi-Wan in ANH, ("...an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the Galaxy together.") and leave the molecular biology ambiguous. That may be the kind of thing that Trek is about, but it destroys some of the wonder and mystery of Star Wars.
Absolutely. Ben's explanation should have been allowed to stand on its own.
Kenobi's explanation was only about the nature of the force itself, he made no reference to precisely how one is supposed to interact with this energy field...other than closing your eyes, clicking your heels together and thinking of England.
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I agree with Mim on this, that it was unneccesary to secularize the force in this way. I preferred the explanation that the force, and one's interaction with it, was purely a supernatural and spiritual thing.
I see where you're coming from regarding R2, Mim, but it still seems odd to me that Obiwan would dismiss R2 like this in Ep IV. Obiwan also had R4 in AOTC, and to simply say what he did, and in that fashion, almost sounded as if he'd never had any connection or interaction with an R2 unit before.
I reckon, that by this advanced stage in his life, the old geezer's losing it upstairs.
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Kenobi's explanation was only about the nature of the force itself, he made no reference to precisely how one is supposed to interact with this energy field...other than closing your eyes, clicking your heels together and thinking of England.
Heh. It's just that, in most cases, adding physics to the metaphysical doesn't work too well. Especially if the inspiration for said physics comes from a paragraph of Gray's Anatomy.
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quote:Originally posted by The Red Admiral: I agree with Mim on this, that it was unneccesary to secularize the force in this way. I preferred the explanation that the force, and one's interaction with it, was purely a supernatural and spiritual thing.
I see where you're coming from regarding R2, Mim, but it still seems odd to me that Obiwan would dismiss R2 like this in Ep IV. Obiwan also had R4 in AOTC, and to simply say what he did, and in that fashion, almost sounded as if he'd never had any connection or interaction with an R2 unit before.
I reckon, that by this advanced stage in his life, the old geezer's losing it upstairs.
I don't get any impression of Obi-Wan "losing it" from watching the film. He's just as sharp as ever, mentally. (And his lightsaber skills haven't waned much either! ) He is simply a master of the half-truth. He spins carefully constructed stories that reveal just enough truth for Luke to react a certain way, but concealed behind just enough deception so that it isn't overwhelming to the boy. (And, so the audience is left without knowing too much! )
Obi-Wan never did own a droid. He only met R2, and R4 did not belong to him but rather to the Jedi Order.
While you may say that these distinctions are excessive, they only show how crafty Obi-Wan was in giving away a little and holding back a lot. (Another, more prominent example is his story to Luke about his student Vader betraying and murdering Luke's father.)
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Indeed the explanation was handled rather clumsily, the movie could done just as well (or better) without it.
Then again, remember that Qui Gon was explaining it to a nine year old child so I suppose the overly simplistic "little wotsits talk to us" explanation can be forgiven, somewhat.
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Going back to Vader having his hand cut off by the Emperor, the quote was something closer to Vader losing his right hand. It's only implied that it's biological. But again, Palpatine could have lied, or Mara could have been mistaken, or Vader could have lost his already artificial right hand.
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Da_bang80
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Gotta love those smilies!
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I don't get any impression of Obi-Wan "losing it" from watching the film. He's just as sharp as ever, mentally. (And his lightsaber skills haven't waned much either! )
Apart from them now being shit. Does Alec do that spinny motion when he runs? DOES HE?
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Wait. Where in ANH did Alec run?
[ January 09, 2003, 08:48: Message edited by: E. Cartman ]
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What do you mean with "spinny motion"? Do you mean when he twirled his saber in a forward vertical circle when catching up with Jinn/Maul?
It's common practice in all martial arts, when an apprentice is excited and apprehensive, to fall back on the training, reclaim confidence in your moves and keep sharp.
I was a bit disappointed with the length of the saber scenes in Ep.II. The Ep.I Jinn vs. Maul rounds were ferocious and brilliant, I kind of expected the same vigour this time. The Dooku/Skywalker duel was stale, ritualistic, almost like a Kata.
But this is nitpicking. About the Prequels, Red Admiral, the only things I dislike about them are the Gungans (they had some purpose in the plot but Boss Nass' and Binks' antics were too pre-school humor for my taste), the constant recycling of SW-quotes ("I've got a bad feeling about this", "How rude") and the forced Yoda-grammar ("Around the survivors a perimeter create", "To the command center take me"). In TESB and ROTJ his dialogue was better thought-through.
The rest is fine. Thing is, there were so many great things in the Old Republic days that they could've focused on in Ep.I and II that they had to settle for something.
Oh, and I finally figured out Jango's Seismic Charges. When freeze-framing on the DVD, it seems that some sort of highly volatile energy-source (plasma or some sort of fuel or dense matter) is released, contained and then "squashed" between two attracting magnetic fields, triggering a massive chain reaction when reaching critical mass (kind of like putting a big firecracker in a mailbox), the effect being a man-made, portable earthquake.
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) and pretty damned lame. IMO it would have been better to just leave the Force's description as it was given by Obi-Wan in ANH, ("...an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the Galaxy together.") and leave the molecular biology ambiguous. That may be the kind of thing that Trek is about, but it destroys some of the wonder and mystery of Star Wars.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) He is simply a master of the half-truth. He spins carefully constructed stories that reveal just enough truth for Luke to react a certain way, but concealed behind just enough deception so that it isn't overwhelming to the boy. (And, so the audience is left without knowing too much! 
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