This is topic Flag burning... in forum Officers' Lounge at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/502.html

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
 
While I don't like the idea of people burning the flag that represents so many positive things to me, I have to admit it might mean something completely different to someone else. And of course, I think free speech is a bit more important than what is, despite everything it represents, a piece of cloth. You might as well pass laws to prevent the burning of Bibles. Of course, since that would be entangling church and state, as well as bordering on idolatry, both liberals and conservatives (the smart ones, anyway) would be against it.

Of course, since the flag represents so many things to so many people, burning an American flag sends a different signal than intended, unless the intended signal was "I want you to hate me irrationally". If that was the message, then yes. It worked.

Be that as it may, let's have a look at an alternative ploy:

"I Can't Believe It's Not The American Flag!"

(Cool! This page has anchors on all the different articles. Click on "I Can't Believe It's Not The American Flag!" when you get there. The original tag I used sends you to the bottom of the page. Go fig.)

--Baloo

------------------
I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/

[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited August 21, 1999).]
 


Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
URL failure... does not compute... does not...

And I must admit that burning one's flag is a horrible act.

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 


Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
 
One thing that seperates us from most countries, is the right to express an opinion, as long as you don't steal the flag. If you buy it, or make it, it should be yours to do with as you please.

------------------
Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx


 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Ack! Baloo, you're going to send me to an early grave.

*keeps a very watchful eye on this thread*

------------------
"I am just a worthless liar. I am just an imbecile. I will only complicate you. Trust in me and fall as well."
--
Tool
 


Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
Kosh, plenty of countries give the right to express your opinion.

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
The right link.

------------------
"Now you're the only one here who can tell me if it's true,
That you love me, and I love me..."
-They Might Be Giants, "Kiss Me, Son of God"
 


Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
 
Funny. It didn't work that well when I originally put the link up.

But seriously: how do you limit flag burning without limiting someone's legitimate right to express a grievance?

Hmmmmmmmm?

------------------
I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/


 


Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :
 
"I've been putting out fire with gasoline,
Putting out fire...with gasoline.
Oh, it's been so long, so long, so long..."


-------------------------------------------
But, your Honor, I was expressing *my* freedom of speech
 


Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
Here is an editorial we ran....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's a Thought: Flag Amendment Is a Bad Idea

The Law: The criminalization of a particular way of thinking�however contemptuous�is a
step toward totalitarianism.


BY BENJAMIN ZYCHER\BD Benjamin Zycher is an economist in Agoura Hills and an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute in Washington. E-mail: [email protected].

The House of Representatives has passed a proposed amendment to the Constitution that would allow Congress to impose criminal penalties upon those physically desecrating the American flag. The standard arguments against such an amendment are driven by the traditional American protection of political speech under the 1st, 9th and 14th amendments and, more broadly, under
the natural law doctrines of the Declaration of Independence. Opposition recognizes as well the dangers inherent in the introduction of politically-inspired exceptions to the general protection of individual liberties.

That standard argument is correct as far as it goes, but it does not go far enough. It is a matter of long-standing tradition for torn or soiled American flags to be burned, an act reflecting solemn respect. That respect is fundamentally a political statement. The only difference between that act and the burning of a flag by a protester is the nature of the political statement, or, more precisely, the thought that goes through the individual's mind when he strikes the match. In short: A law imposing criminal penalties for the physical desecration of the flag seeks literally to outlaw a particular thought.

Many liberals opposing the proposed amendment�always so smug in their purported concern for individual liberty�make precisely the same error in their support for laws imposing relatively heavy penalties for ""hate'' crimes. Consider two individuals assaulted while walking along a road. The first is attacked because the assailant is in a bad mood; the second is attacked because of the color of his skin. The respective criminal acts are identical. The respective
injuries to the victims are identical. The only difference in the two cases�literally�is what
the assailants were thinking. ""Hate'' legislation�as well as the larger dogmas of political correctitude� seeks to penalize a particular set of thoughts.

Clearly, it matters more to individuals if a vandal spray-paints upon a synagogue a swastika, as opposed to "Joe was here." The burning of a flag as a symbol of the community matters differently than the burning of a pile of leaves. But law can make such distinctions
only crudely if at all; would it be ""hate,'' say, to attack someone because of the color of his hair? Such laws inexorably must make distinctions based largely or solely on the nature of particular thoughts, and the criminalization of such thoughts, however worthy of contempt, represents a very real step toward a world of totalitarianism.

------------------
This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.
~ C. Mongomery Burns
 




© 1999-2024 Charles Capps

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3