Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Conservative, yet understandable...

This is topic Conservative, yet understandable... in forum Officers' Lounge at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/1194.html

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

My cousin sent me the following. I found it amusing and can agree with the sentiments expressed, though not all to the same degree (I especially like Article II). It's humor -- don't forget to laugh.

[SOL: If the commentary gets ugly, move this to the Flame board, but give it a chance here first, okee?]

The following has apparently been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye from GA.

quote:
"We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our
great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other liberal bedwetters. We hold
these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of people are confused
by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a Bill of No Rights.
ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.
ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.
ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.
ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.
ARTICLE VIII: You don't have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.
ARTICLE IX: You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure want all of you to have one, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.
ARTICLE X: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to pursue happiness -- which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights."
If you agree, we strongly urge you to forward this to as many people as you can. No, you don't have to, and nothing tragic will befall you should you not forward it. We just think it is about time common sense is allowed to flourish - call it the age of reason revisited.
Thank you.

------------------
"Huh? Wuzzat?"
-- Any Teletubbie
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

*Applauds*

Now all you need is some gullible Senator or Congressperson to support this Bill and get it into official legislation.
Huzzah!!

------------------
Secret spies frm China try to steal you mind's elation,
Little girls from Sweden dream of silver screen flirtation,
And if you want these kind of dreams
It's Californication.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Actually, I posted this on the Flameboard, a loooong time ago.

And it's entirely correct.

*Now expects to see all our friends living under semisocialist governments or receiving their entitlements get hopping mad.*

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Article III: You forgot the insane-psycho-with-shotgun breaking into some place and blowing away anything in his path (including you. Mind you, how could you stop this from happening in the first place?)

Article IV: Not all unfortunate people are drunken couch potatoes. That is an unfair stereotype. Just like the so-called "Squeegee Kids".

Article V: That doesn't apply to Canada. And what about the right to an education? (just wondering)

Article IX: There are lots of people who try so damn hard with all the help as possible and STILL have bad luck finding a job. Wonder what's going on here.

Other than that, the article is crude, but satisfactory. So far.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 20, 2000).]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

*Responds to response*

Article III: Perhaps, but it doesn't mention any negation of your right to defend yourself. Therefore, when the shotgun wielder comes, take advantage of the fact that you know your territory better than he does, take cover, and shoot him. There, that was simple.

Article IV: You don't get out and actually deal with these people much, do you? "Not every" is true. so is "A LOT" though. (Most of whom like to hang out at the library and try to access WWF or porn on the computers)

Article V: Bet Canada doesn't have our cultural problems in this respect, or as many 'projects.' And, of course, I've heard tell that socialized medicine up there is coming close to bankrupting the country...

Article IX: While that may be true in an underpopulated, mostly barren country, in the US the service industries are BOOMING. There are places around here which can't FIND people to fill positions. The problem is that they won't pay you to sit on your duff all day, like welfare does. Or, that they don't pay high enough for some people's false sense of 'pride.' "I too PROUD to flip burgers." Well your grandparents had another word for flipping burgers. They called it 'opportunity.'

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited April 21, 2000).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I was just wondering how the university grant system worked in the US? Do you get subsidised for going to University? Or do you have to pay for it all yourself?

I get 3 installments of �1,400 a year. Because my parents don't (can't) work. I also don't have to pay university fees (because again, my parents are on income support). They can't afford to give me any money. My flatmate, whose parents earn more, gets the same loan as me, but also has to pay �300 uni fees a year. My other flatmate comes from a wealthier family in Liverpool, and only gets 3 lots of �1000.

Is this a lot compared to the US? I doubt it, since none of my mates complain about not being allowed to own 3 cars. I can barely afford to run the one I've got.

------------------
*Amusing quote not available, please call back later*

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Responding to the responses to the responses

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

The above says that you must be held responsible if you stick a screwdriver in your eye. Fine. What I was trying to say that if the shotgun-wielding-maniac comes in and you don't have a gun, are you "responsible for your own death" since you did not have a gun?

Article 4: Living right next to, working in, and going to school in a large city with an ever increasing homeless and poverty rate, yes. Unfortunately, due to your statement, I bet that you've never encountered a person living in poverty, have you?

Article 5: Yes, Canada is a smaller country, so it does provide its advantages. I really don't like your term "socialized medicine". To tell you the truth, there is a problem with Medicare, as the baby boomer population is getting older (and sicker). This means that caring for these people is going to be a problem.

The US could do the same thing, that is, if the US military budget didn't eat up so much of the plate....... Not to offend any of you guys, but from what I heard, the US military is asking for more and more money.......

Article IX: *slaps First for his "barren country" remark*

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Another thing:

ARTICLE X: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to pursue happiness -- which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights."

There are some laws that were created to help and accomodate people including minorities, homosexuals, and the poor. Such laws doesn't mean that they have the right to happines, and they would not be considered "idiotic" in my eyes.

I bet that the person who wrote this article is Republican.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 21, 2000).]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

The US military is asking for more money because it's underfunded by its standards, IIRC. Of course, it would be a lot less expensive if the US would stop protecting every little wimpy country that gets attacked. And Canada, for that matter. Let's see the Canadian military do anything.

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"Frank, sometimes you are frightening on a scale that boggles the human imagination." - Krenim

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Tahna, the comment was quite vague as to what laws its refering to. It's also true. We don't need twenty stinkin laws just to perform one function.

So what if its written by a Republican? What difference does that make?

------------------
"No children have ever meddled with the Republican Party and have lived to tell about it." Sideshow Bob

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Republican. Bah. Democrat. Bah. I'm used to liberal vs. conservative. Hmm.. The conservatives are in power right now in N.B.... Anyhoo, why does the Canadian military have to do anything? We don't pick fights with anyone. Seems to me we clean up the mess that the US military leaves on it's "peacekeeping missions"...

------------------
"Keep on Trekking"
-D. Kelly

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

If Canada were to be attacked by anyone, though, it wouldn't be able to defend itself.

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"I was walking out of a movie, and some people recognized me from They Might Be Giants. They said 'Are you John?' and I said '...Yeah.' and then they said 'We're glad to see you getting out.'" - John Linnell

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

The primary function of the Canadian military during wartime is to act as traffic wardens to the forces invading the U.S.

"Welcome to Canada."
"Feel free to move about the country and spend whatever currency you have brought with you on your way to anihilation at the hands of the Americans. There are many banks available to assist you in calculating the current exchange rate of your currency. Please do not attempt to pass military scrip for actual money, as it is considered very ill-mannered."
"Please observe all posted speed limits while within Canadian territory, and be aware that causing any part of Canada to explode without clearing things with the Foreign office is likely to result in a severe counterattack by our neighbors to the south. We therefore ask you to refrain from hostile acts until you cross the border."
"Thank you for visiting Canada."

------------------
"Huh? Wuzzat?"
-- Any Teletubbie
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Tahna, I live in northern Appalachia (a region of the Appalachian mtn. range extending from PA southwards towards KY). It is probably the most poverty-ridden place in the United States, especially since the steel industry went plotz. I deal with the "poor" (read: people 'dependent' on government checks to survive) on a daily basis.

I see how dependency breeds dependency. I see how the 'gimmie this, I'm entitled to it' attitude really works, and what kind of person it creates, and it's appalling. I see people using their check money on booze, drugs, and luxury items. I see people who live on our tax money preying on the citizenry, and each other, and doing everything they can to cheat the system for a few dollars more, or just to avoid the hassle of having to do anything.

I see a new company come into town and ask for unskilled labor to TRAIN for FREE, and hardly get anyone because they're not paying enough above what welfare pays.

I see a guy 'begging' turn down a better-than-minimum-wage job offer because it's a 'hassle.'

So don't tell me what I deal with.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

That's America. Dependency up here in Canada is a different situation. And dependents up here aren't the same people you describe down there.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Well, lessee.. first post... a thread about a US senator, the US bill of rights, and the people of the US.

Could it be...? Is it? Why yes, it's a discussion about the UNITED STATES!

Don't blame me, you're the one who brought Canada into it. I'm perfectly happy leaving the Canadians to their own devices. Especially as it applies to defense and the GST.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

It would be a drain on my resources if I had to move this thread. Hint hint, he said knowingly.

------------------
"Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?"
--
M. Doughty

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Wink-wink, nudge-nudge, I'll say no more.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

US Policy has influence over here. Politicians here are repeatedly using US-style policies on health care, education, and yes, the less fortunate. So yes, the "professional couch potato" remark is of great importance to us. Especially when the less fortunate are branded as enemies to society by the elite. Especially when the government tries to convince us of this mentality as an excuse to make the legitimately dependant (ie, women, children, and the disabled) suffer even more.

I'll say no more on this unless I have to.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Which part of "amazingly subtle hint to be quiet about silly national chestpounding" didn't get across?

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I'm curious as to why, in your list of people who are "dependent", you included women. I know it's a radical idea, and it might not have reached your part of the world yet, but over here, some women do actually work for a living. Shocking I know. I lobbied against it, but since it was several decades before I was born, I was shouted down.

------------------
*Amusing quote not available, please call back later*

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

The dependant woman I speak of is the single mother while employed (in whatever dismal job you can think of), she barely has (if not) enough money to pay for basic necessities. There used to be a lot of tools here in order to assist these single mothers, but the government of present day has shut them down, preferring to let the single mother and her children suffer in the cycle of dependancy.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 23, 2000).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

That's funny, I don't remember activating the cone of silence before I posted.

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Sol, if you're that antsy about the whole thing, just move the thread. It's not like it'll cause everyone a lot of trouble to move over to the Flameboard to continue the discussion or anything, and it'll be The_Tom's problem, not yours.

--Baloo

------------------
"A plain, good-hearted woman who loves you is infinitely more beautiful than any "gorgeous" woman who values your possessioins more than you."
-- Me
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Not that there's a problem that I can see to begin with...

Anyway, I wonder... Instead of simply sending people a check for their welfare money, letting them spend it on whatever they want, is there some way that the people could be given some sort of welfare "credit card" type of thing? They could use it legitimately in stores and such, like a normal credit card, but liquor stores wouldn't be allowed to accept it, and it's kind of hard to buy drugs that way. See what I'm getting at?

------------------
Harold: "You're missing the point!"
Red: "Well, I don't like points."
-The Red Green Show

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The problem is, Baloo, that I tend to view moving and closing threads to be essentially saying to the posters involved "You idiots, look at what you've done!" Now, that is never my intention, nor do I think it is always implied, but that's how I feel. Having said that, I see nothing wrong with gently reminding people in my own charming way that they tread near the line. Am I overprotective? Perhaps. But I've been let down in the past. Not here, mind you, but as a general rule.

As to my reactions, I believe they have combined the wisdom of Solomon with the patience of...Solomon. (And the arrogance of...Solomon? Hmm.)

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Obviously he don't know what I know about Solomon, then. The man created his own press. The whole 'baby' story was a analogy about what Solomon was ready to do to Israel (carve it in half) if he didn't get the throne. woo-woo.

Anyway, single mums. You know, there are a lot of ways NOT to be a single mum, if you're a woman. The most obvious of which is having tight-knee syndrome.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Try to explain that to those mothers whose deadbeat husbands jump ship and leave them without a penny to live on.

First, your comments are akin to saying that you want all poor women to be sterilized.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 24, 2000).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

You see?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Agreed. Tahna, I think that's called the "straw man" fallacy.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Sol: So far as I can tell, this is a legitimate exchange of opinions. I don't see any name-calling, insulting, lost tempers, or what-have-you. Or, in other words, I see no flames. If there's no fire, don't start spraying the hose around. All you'll do is get everything all wet. Or something.

That actually sounded a lot better in my head...

------------------
Harold: "You're missing the point!"
Red: "Well, I don't like points."
-The Red Green Show

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

At the moment there's no reason to do anything to this thread. Just people talking. Hell, I don't even know why this has come up. Since it has, lets cut the critique of peoples administrative style and stay on topic. Whatever that is *L*.

Nuff said.

------------------
"Blind faith is the crutch of fools"

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

"Straw Man" Fallacy? Explain.

Before I forget, there is also the "battered woman" who has either a choice of leaving him and living homeless, or living at a home and being constantly pummelled into submission. As well as the single mother who after living in her apartment for 10 years, gets kicked out because the Landlord wants a person with more money to move in.

Before anyone asks, no, I'm not socialist. But I do not believe in dumping society's problems on those who are less fortunate.

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 25, 2000).]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Actually, I think husbands that 'jump ship' should be strung up, and all their assets given to the abandoned.

I also think abusive husbands should be strung up, and all their assets given to the victim.

(Amazing, isn't it, how many problems can be solved by the suitable application of a gallows?)

Now that we've solved THAT problem, let's move on...

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

The straw man fallacy involves attacking something other than what someone is talking about. You said

"First, your comments are akin to saying that you want all poor women to be sterilized."

However, he never said anything about sterilizing anyone.