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It has been brought to my attention that I need a new signature. Unfortunately, I don't happen to have a new one handy since no one's been by TrekSunday in a while to make witty or otherwise amusing comments. Don't you feel guilty now?

[This message has been edited by Krenim (edited November 09, 2000).]
 

Richard Nixon didn't die in office.

Neither Carter nor Ford died in office (they're both still around, but Ford'll kick it soon)

I don't think Truman, Johnson, or Eisenhower died in office.

I doubt Clinton'll die before his term is over ...

Unless I'm mistaken, the last two Presidents to die in office have been FDR (of natural causes), and JFK (of a bullet or two ... or possibly three ... )

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]
 

I'm very sorry, I don't know how I managed to omit that.

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It has been brought to my attention that I need a new signature. Unfortunately, I don't happen to have a new one handy since no one's been by TrekSunday in a while to make witty or otherwise amusing comments. Don't you feel guilty now? ;)
 

*ahem*

Now that that's out of the way...

I'd personally find it grimly amusing if the "curse" fell upon Al for claiming the victory, even though Bush won.

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"
 

Al hasn't claimed the victory yet. No one has, and Bush shouldn't have claimed victory either ...

Well, I should rephrase that. If Bush does win Florida, then both men can claim victory:

Gore for winning the popular vote (and I can almost guarantee he'll be back in '04 to give Bush a run for his money)

Bush for winning the Presidency by way of the Electorate College and *not* the majority vote

It would be rather impossible for Gore to "win" the curse f he should lose, unless he gets elected in '04 (I really doubt he'll die before Clinton is out of office), and *then* dies ... the whole point is that the President-elect who is elected in a year ending in '0 dies in office as President, so ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]
 

You liberals have an odd definition of victory. Victory is accomplishing your objectives. Gore's objective is to win the presidency. The popular vote is only prehipherally relevant to this goal.

There can be only one, you know.

As for the curse, you're taking things way to seriously. It's a JOKE.

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"
 

And that ballot? If you can't understand it, then you shouldn't even be voting :P

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No my signature is not dated.
 

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"If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there it would've been like Woodstock. I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move." - Spike, BtVS
 

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All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
Bob Dylan

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I see a red door and I want it painted black

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"Life sucks, then you die"

Yes, there can be only one, but Duncan MacLeod isn't running for president, so ...

Gore can claim victory -- he did win the popular vote, and got more votes than any other Democratic nominee in recent history. You can bet he'll be back in 2004, and even your vote won't be enough to keep Dubya in office.

JeffR, the ballot situation is very tricky. If it was just a matter of people reading a confusing ballot, then, even I would say, tough for Gore, no revote. BUT! Here's where it gets intereasting: the Sample Ballot was *not* the same as the actual ballot; and it is possible that it is against Florida Election law to have the arrow, or dot, or whatever were you *mark* the ballot on the left side of the candidate's name, thereby making the ballot itself illegal ...

I still stand by a Federal Investigation of Florida (regardless of outcome!) ... because no one can deny that there is something *fishy* going on ... besides which, Florida itself has said (well, ok, the representatives of the state) that the election won't be certain until Sept. 17th, when the absentee ballots are counted ... this is a *very* close race, people ... I don't think it would be fair for any side to accuse the other of trying to postpone the inevitable. Although, it does make me wonder that the Governor of Florida happens to be the brother of one of the dudes who wants into the White House ... you can bet if it comes down to Bush & Gore again in '04, this'll be a major issue.

Omega, regarding the posts you made earlier: would the tie-breaking vote be cast by the *current* Vice President (Al Gore), or by the VP the Senate chooses? (Or whomever chooses them)? I don't think it was that clear.

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]
 

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

 

This has been the closest, most drawn-out, and certainly most controversial election in quite a while. If any president is likely to be assassinated (or at least have an attempt made), it'll be whoever ends up getting it this time.

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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
 

I mean, what be the point of assassinating the guy who didn't get the White House?

Sorry, but the above just kind of strikes me as a "D'uh!" statement ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

"Here's where it gets intereasting: the Sample Ballot was *not* the same as the actual ballot"

Well, the sample ballot I saw was different from our actual ballots, too. Should I sue?

"and it is possible that it is against Florida Election law to have the arrow, or dot, or whatever were you *mark* the ballot on the left side of the candidate's name, thereby making the ballot itself illegal ..."

No, it just requires that the mark be opposite the cantidate's name. Opposite is defined as: set over against something that is at the other end or side of an intervening line or space. The ballot fits this description.

"no one can deny that there is something *fishy* going"

Sure I can. People can deny anything that there's no evidence of.

"Florida itself has said (well, ok, the representatives of the state) that the election won't be certain until Sept. 17th, when the absentee ballots are counted"

Don't you mean November 17th? I don't want to wait THAT long.

"Omega, regarding the posts you made earlier: would the tie-breaking vote be cast by the *current* Vice President (Al Gore), or by the VP the Senate chooses?"

I assume this was meant for the other thread, but... assuming that the VP has the authority to break a tie in an appointal situation, then it'd of course be the one that was currently in office, namely Al. But then we have, what, 53 seats? Probably wouldn't be a tie.

JK2:

Did you read what TSN said? You're agreeing with him.

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

2. Last night, they gave the 'disputed' ballot to a SEVEN-year-old child. HE picked out Gore's spot IMMEDIATELY. There are frickin' ARROWS on each one, for chrissake! Only a true idiot or a blind person could have mistaken the ballot. (Of course, since these ballots were all supposedly meant for Gore... well... that would tell you something about the quality of Gore voters.)

3. The popular vote is constitutionally IRRELEVANT. GET OVER IT. If you don't like it, propose an Amendment. Nevertheless, it's too late to do anything about THIS election, legally, now.

4. After the upswing the economy's about to have under a Bush presidency, and once the truths start coming out about the real in-office history of the Clinton-Gore administration, I doubt Gore will be able to get elected DOGCATCHER anywhere, but we'll see.

5. The military absentee ballots will be for Bush, too.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

The truth will come out ... about Republican corruption within the Florida elections. And we'll see how the voters feel when Jeb Bush comes up for re-election ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
 

Democrats: "Gore got more! The ballots were difficult to undertsand! Jeb's fixing for his brother!"

Common Sense: "Would you BOTH just shut the fuck UP, for Kaja's sake?!? JEEEsus! FLIP a fucking coin & let me get back to WORK, huh? Don't MAKE me come down there, kick ALL y'alls asses, & install MYSELf as leader..& don't think I WON'T! And if y'don't like it, you can suck my short fat hairy Kike CRANK!!"

This is why I'm SO glad I voted for John Sheridan....

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"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much."

 

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

New York, Iowa, Oregon, California, Tennessee, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania (I live here, and believe me, it's a known factor, not a supposition, here.) have yet to be looked at seriously.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if you suddenly hear some change in the voices that really means "We won't glom onto Florida anymore if you promise not to look at our activities in other states..."

Because believe me, if the Dems claim fraud to invalidate Florida, the Reps WILL start ferretting it out elsewhere.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

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"Life sucks, then you die"

[This message has been edited by USS Vanguard (edited November 10, 2000).]
 

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Communism. The most socialist of all the 'ism's. It's in you to vote.

Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.
 

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"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much."

 

------------------
Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

To keep the large populous states from completely overwhelming the smaller, less populous states. The "tyranny of the majority," as Jefferson put it.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

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"Life sucks, then you die"

Personally, I think another reason for it was that it would have been flat-out impossible to count every single vote with the speed of communications in the eighteenth century.

I think the system needs an overhaul, but I also think that the popular vote is not the way to go. How 'bout something like the congress?

*thinks*

Say we have two electoral colleges. In one, each state gets, say, five electoral votes. The other is run exactly the way is is now. Whichever cantidate wins BOTH colleges wins. If you get a split, whoever got the higher popular vote wins, unless it's within, say, 1%. Then it goes to the congress like it does now.

Sound good?

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

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"Life sucks, then you die"

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I see a red door and I want it painted black

How 'bout THIS: say that each state gets whatever number of electoral votes it gets now. When election time comes around, say one cantidate gets 55% of the vote, the other 45%. The first would get 55% of the electoral votes, the second 45%, with any fractional votes going to the winner, for obvious reasons. This system would be relatively easy to modify for third party cantidates.

This way, the states still get representation as entities, but the popular vote becomes much more important. Sound good?

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

I say just do away with it, and let the popular vote actually vote in the President.

It'd also be interesting to be able to vote on VP seperately, so you could end up with two different parties as POTUS, and VP. I don't know if that would actually do anything, but it might be cool.

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Communism. Who wouldn't like their neighbour thrown into a goulag?

Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.

 

"The electoral college was put up in the first place because during the 18th and 19th centuries, Americans were butt dumb and couldn't be counted on to vote for a competetant president."

Do I even need to say what I think about this...? :-)

"To keep the large populous states from completely overwhelming the smaller, less populous states."

To stop it?! That's exactly what it does! I mean, look at Florida! If 50.000000001% of the population votes for one candidate, he/she/it gets all 25 electoral votes. Now, let's say there's a smaller state where the entire population votes for the opposing candidate, and their population is the same as that 50.000000001% of Florida. Candidate A gets 25 electoral votes from Florida, and Candidate B only gets half as many from the other state, even though he/she/it got the same number of votes.

"What about that one state that just has three REAL big counties (somewhere in the NE, IIRC)?"

Er... Rhode Island has five counties. But then, some states have single counties that are larger than Rhode Island in its entirety. Aside from that, I don't know what you're talking about...

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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000

[This message has been edited by TSN (edited November 11, 2000).]
 

As I remember, my state of Connecticut is the only one in the Union that has no county-level government. Sherriffs are appointees & are actually being abolished. There's 8 counties here (Litchfield, Fairfield, Tolland, Middlesex, New Haven, New London, Windham & Hartford), but most people would be hard-pressed to name them all. They might get 3, possibly 4.

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"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much."

 

Prince Georges
Montgomery
Howard
Baltimore (which is the county where I live)
Harford
Cecil
Ann Arundel

Er ... I think we've got 25 total, maybe 13, hell, I just don't know! The eastern shore is a mystery, as is Western and Southern Maryland ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

------------------
Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

 

But, still... Delaware isn't exactly the largest state around, either... :-)

------------------
"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
 

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"Life sucks, then you die"

We've got the Naval Academy =)

We'll call in some airstrikes and blow Delaware to pieces.

But, I forget myself, Delaware doesn't really exist and is actually a government conspiracy ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

(Well, no sales tax, anyway...)

------------------
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

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"I do prefer the arse, but you can't dismiss the leg. They're joined at the hip, so to speak."

- Liam Kavanagh

 

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I am going to Japanese cars from now on, because the auto workers got the day off to vote and the state went to Gore.
From The Port Huron Times-Herald talk back section.

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"Life sucks, then you die"