Flare Sci-Fi Forums: A hypothetical situation...

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

The election process, as I understand it:

If no one gets a majority, then the election goes to congress. It looks like this MAY be possible, due to strange laws in FL, and Gore dragging things out like he is. Now if this happens, the House decides on the president, and the senate on the VP. Every state deligation gets a single vote in the house, and neither party controls enough deligations to elect their cantidate. Since the GOP controls the senate, Cheney would get the VPcy, and since you'd have a deadlock in the House, and thus no president, Cheney would become president in January.

Of course, since we'd have a deadlocked senate in that case, and no VP, there'd be no way to break a tie, which is too bad. It might be interesting to see Cheney appoint Bush as VP, resign, then get appointed himself...

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Francesca: He was born on the tundra, that's where he belongs. You'll kill him if you take him to Toronto.
Thatcher: That's a bit drastic, don't you think?
Francesca: Look, I've been to Toronto. Trust me, nothing can survive there. - "due South"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Omega, the Florida recount is under state law ... Gore's not dragging it out (Dailey, on the other hand...) I think that once the FL vote is finalized, if Gore loses, he'll concede. Of course, the absentee ballots are another thing, so I think it might be good for both candidates to say they'll wait a few more days before one or the other conceding.

But, yes, there have been glaring ... "problems" in the Florida election, and I think they need to be looked into. I've already said in another post that the "Buchannan ballot" thing is really a non-issue: people should've complained about that when they went to vote.

But I've heard reports on CNN that black voters were turned away from polling places ... and that makes me wonder quite a bit.

You're also wrong to assume that Cheney would become President -- the Senate would *have* to pick someone ... its not like they can declare a mistrial! And, is it the pre- or post- election HoR and Senate?

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I was just watching CNN ...

Apparently, the "ballot" sent to homes before the election (so people can see it) was DIFFERENT from the one actually used ... it only displayed the arrows, and not the holes you had to punch.

In Md, we vote by arrows. It would look like:

Gore, Al <-- --

Bush, George <-- --

To vote, you fill in the arrow, like so:

Gore, Al <---------
Bush, George <-- --

Maybe that's what people in Florida thought. This also makes the whole thing a bit more than just a "they shoulda looked at the sample" harder ... Florida also stated that they wouldn't know the outcome until Sept. 17th ...

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

"Omega, the Florida recount is under state law ... Gore's not dragging it out"

Who said anything about the recount? He's dragging it out with legal challenges.

"And, is it the pre- or post- election HoR and Senate?"

It's the congress that is currently in office that would decide, since it would take place before inauguration day.

"You're also wrong to assume that Cheney would become President -- the Senate would *have* to pick someone ... its not like they can declare a mistrial!"

And what if the house (I assume you meant house, not senate) COULDN'T decide? Exactly what do you think happens if they don't come to a decision before inauguration? Bill just stays in office to do us a "favor" until it's sorted out?

"Florida also stated that they wouldn't know the outcome until Sept. 17th ..."

You mean November, I presume? 'Cause that's when the absentee balots have to be in by. Assuming they were sent out at all, because there are many stories of personnel not receiving theirs...

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

As if Cheney as president wouldn't suck.

"Sir, the Iraqis are being tits again."

"Iraq -- what -- oh my hear--."

*thump*

And the curse of the '0''s continues.

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Communism. The most socialist of all the 'ism's. It's in you to vote.

Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Liberals never cease to amaze me. Someone trumps up charges that Bush is dumb, and you believe it. Someone says Cheney is in poor health, and you believe it. Gore HIMSELF lies through his teeth, and you refuse to believe it. I'd love to hear your opinion on Lieberman's being excommunicated and flopping on all his views.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Er ... yes, November 17th, silly me.

Actually, a re-election in that one county wouldn't be a bad thing ... literaly *everyone* would go to vote, so who knows how it would turn out?

I doubt the House would have the option of not-choosing. If that would mean locking them up until they came to a decision, so be it.

Again, you're confusing what Gore's Campaign Managers are doing to what Gore is doing. Keep in mind, CNN reported about the strange ballots *before* they even took Florida *away* from him the first time, yet the VP was ready to concede (and then the gap got MUCH smaller, so he recanted his call to Bush).

I honestly doubt that Gore would not concede if he loses Florida.

Omega, be careful about your liberal comments. This *isn't* the flameboard (did you notice?) Yet you're treading on dangerous grounds ... and anyway, more people want Gore in office than Bush, so nyah-nyah!

Oh, and no one had to trump up anything about Bush being dumb ... he did enough of that himself.

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

"Oh, and no one had to trump up anything about Bush being dumb ... he did enough of that himself."

You're a perfect example of what I was talking about. You can't point to any evidence that Bush is dumb, yet you believe it anyway.

"I doubt the House would have the option of not-choosing. If that would mean locking them up until they came to a decision, so be it."

You can't force a group of people to agree. You have yet to answer the question of proceedure. What if the house DOESN'T choose? How can you force them to?

"Again, you're confusing what Gore's Campaign Managers are doing to what Gore is doing."

Oh, yes. REAL important difference. I forgot that Gore doesn't run the Gore Campiagn...

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Omega,

Bush hasn't proved his intelligence by mis-statements such as the one in my sig ... but, this is an argument for the "Flameboard" ...

Hey, if it comes down to the House flipping coins ... I don't think they have an *option* not too choose, do they? That might leave us in limbo, with whoever the Senate picked as VP running things, but I really doubt the House could say "yeah, we can't pick 'em, so, we can either pick Nader, or you can have 'em as Co-Presidents ..."

The Florida vote is too close to call, Omega ... there are a lot of irregularities, and people need more info before anyone goes whining about either candidate dragging stuff out.

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Well, here's a bit of coincidence for you, what if BUsh wins, then he'd have won the electoral votes but lost the popular vote (unles of course I misread what CNN was saying), then he would be the third president to fail to get a popular vote. But that's not all, John Quincy Adams also failed to get the popular vote, but he still became president (albeit under slightly different circumstances) making him the First president to fail to win the popular vote but get the electoral votes, AND both presidents would be the only 2 to be the sons of former presidents.

Adams was also a really sucky president, but I'll hold off on my opinion on Bush's if he wins after the term's over.

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"Life sucks, then you die"

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Basically Gore has the popular vote. If Bush wins by a few HUNDRED votes in Florida (leading by 225 votes as of now), he could call for a victory, and a third of the nation would back him up. But then he'd make enemies of the other two-thirds of the population (Gore supporters and moderates), since he'd win by only a few hundred votes in a county with twenty thousand invalid ballots. Few presidents start out being despised, and you bet people are gonna get back at him in two years by voting for a Democratic Congress.

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"The distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
--Albert Eistein

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Here's my take on the situation:

Gore has won the Popular Vote, no matter what

Bush will probably win Florida

Despite who wins Florida, I think there should be a Federal investigation. Something rather fishy happened down there in regards to the investigation. I also think this whole thing is going to blow up in Jeb's face, and he'll have a fight on his hand for any other public office he tries to run for in Florida.

Bush might start out despised, but might gain popularity. Of course, he might not. The first indication will be the elections in two years.

If Gore doesn't gain the White House in 2000, he *will* be back in '04, so Bush had better do a damned good job -- because I find it quite likely that Dubya and his daddy will also find themselves sharing only one term in Office.

*IF* Bush wins ... I want to hear him respond to the following question (he avoided it in his statement yesterday):

How do you feel being the President of the US, when more Americans voted *against* you than *for* you?

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 09, 2000).]

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

(scratches head)
And just who's vote breaks ties in the Senate?

uumm, I think maybe it's suposed to be the Vice President. I hope it gets that far just to see what happens.

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All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
Bob Dylan

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Actually the people absolutely DESPISED Adams when he "stole" the presidency from Jackson, so even though he had some good ideas none of them got through a rather angry congress. Let's hope that if bush does win, we won't end up stagnating for 4 years in partisan politics.

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"Life sucks, then you die"

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

JK:

"Bush hasn't proved his intelligence by mis-statements such as the one in my sig"

So he's made some misstatments. What's your point? Gore couldn't remember the word "mammogram". Does that make him an idiot, too?

"I don't think they have an *option* not too choose, do they?"

Again, how can they be forced to choose? You're not making any sense.

"I really doubt the House could say "yeah, we can't pick 'em, so, we can either pick Nader, or you can have 'em as Co-Presidents ..."

Obviously not. I wasn't suggesting anything of the kind. IIR my constitution correctly, they have to choose between the two who got the most electoral votes. Thus they have to vote between Gore and Bush.

*looks*

Ah, ammendment twelve:

"...if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest nubers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice."

And here's the important part:

"And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following [this would now be noon, January 20th, because of the twentieth ammendment], then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the president."

So there you go.

"The Florida vote is too close to call, Omega"

No, it's not. Bush got over 1,700 more votes than Gore, a number which, when adding all 53 counties that had at last report sent their numbers to the state, had not changed. That's not too close to call.

"there are a lot of irregularities"

Such as? The perfectly legal ballot (look at the state constitution) that was also used in Illinois, where Gore won and no one's complaining? The people who marked their ballots twice, in which case it's perfectly legal to throw them out? The box of crayons? These are all trumped-up charges to drag this out.

Vanguard:

"if BUsh wins, then he'd have won the electoral votes but lost the popular vote"

Not nesecarily. We've still got absentee ballots coming in and being counted, the military, and a couple more possible recounts. Bush is only down by, what, 90,000 at this point? I don't particularly care about the popular vote, but still...

"I'll hold off on my opinion on Bush's if he wins after the term's over."

A wise choice. Perhaps you could influence those around you in the forum.

Ziyal:

"Basically Gore has the popular vote."

As above, not nesecarily.

"If Bush wins by a few HUNDRED votes in Florida (leading by 225 votes as of now)"

Those are the AP (Associated Press) numbers. At the last official (well, "unofficial but certified", which is close enough for me) word I heard, Bush was still up by the original number of votes, with 54 counties reporting. These AP reporters are jumping the gun again, like they did when they gave Gore Florida Tuesday.

JK2:

"Gore has won the Popular Vote, no matter what"

Again, not nesecarily, and even if he does, barely.

"Despite who wins Florida, I think there should be a Federal investigation. Something rather fishy happened down there in regards to the investigation."

Election, you mean? Like what?

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

In a close election like Florida's, what do you, Omega, think the chances are of a shady character doing something to adjust the vote to their canidates advantage. I am not stating anything about either party, since shady characters are in both, just wondering what your opinion on the possiblity.

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I see a red door and I want it painted black

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Yes, thank you, in regards to the election.

Well, the ballot part. Are you aware it is illegal in Florida election law to have the voting-hole-thingy-whatever-it-is-called on the right side of the candidate's name? And yet ...

The box of crayons -- well, people find a ballot box -- what do you expect? Now that people know it was filled was crayons, it's a non-issue.

And so far, we *still* don't know why the NAACP is up in arms.

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Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"You still don't understand, do you MacLeod? I am the End of Time!" - Kronos

"You're history!" - MacLeod
***
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George "Dubya" Bush

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Sol System is my watchword.

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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Since we're talking about those mythical animals mankind knows as "conservatives" and "liberals" with heated opinions, I think this is more appopriate in el foro de fuego.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.