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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I'm not putting this in the Flameboard, because it isn't a discussion about whether the use of the death penalty is right or wrong. I'm putting it here because it's quite an interesting situation, and I think as many peoplem as possible ought to be made aware of it.

The article.

Basically, to sum it up, this guy is on death row because he supposedly paid some guy to kill someone. However, the killer has since admitted that he lied in order to plea bargain himself out of execution, and the guy who is on death row actually had nothing to do w/ the murder.

But he's still going to be executed, as it stands now. The courts keep denying his appeals because the killer who admitted to perjury isn't trustworthy.

Yeah, the American (in)justice system works soooo well... *rolls eyes*

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 


Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
"I lied before, but now I want to tell the truth, even though it might get me killed."

"No, you told the truth before, but you are now untrustworthy, even though it might get you killed."

One Country, Under God......

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget



 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
This thread is as likely to stay out of the Flameboard as something really, really unlikely to stay out of the Flameboard.

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20th century, go to sleep.
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R.E.M.
****
Read chapters one and two of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Show no patience, tolerance, or restraint.


 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Wasn't this the plot of one of those TV Lawyer programs a few weeks ago?

Does anybody know if this is a real story, or a 'stolen kidney' story?

Does anybody know if the killer actually IS suddenly trustworthy?

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master



 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
I think it would be up for a JURY to decide whether or not the dude is telling the truth now. Deffinitly, at the very least, give this guy on Death Row another appeal/trial. If he isn't ... well, it just goes to show what's wrong with the Death Penalty system. At least with a trial, if he's found to be un-trustworthy, people can say "yeah, but he got another trial after the new evidence appeared, and they still found him guilty" instead of "you got new evidence, didn't do a damn thing about it, and fried an innocent person!"

That's how I see it, in any case.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited January 19, 2001).]
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, he'd have to be pretty fucked up to lie now and likely be executed for it, if he already told the truth in order to avoid execution...

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
That was a response to First's post, as JeffK made so unclear by posting while I was reading/typing... :-)

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Oh, I'm so sorrrry ...

Seriously, in any case, when something like this comes along, it pretty much screams for "APPEAL!" or "NEW TRIAL!"

Because, let me tell you, getting to say, "hey, in this case, the guy whose testimony put the dude in the electric chair said he lied on the stand and you still killed the guy without giving him a re-trial! Foul!"

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
I'd agree to that. Assuming there's the slightest chance, there should probably be a new trial.

I was on a jury on a drug trial a while back, and we had a witness for the defense who was an admitted liar, habitual drug user, filer of false reports, and who had been intimately involved with the accused.

Needless to say, we found her testimony to be neither believable nor remotely credible.

We found the guy guilty of 3 of 4 charges, and would have convicted him of intent to sell, except one of our jurors was an idiot who couldn't understand the concept of independent thought. (In other words, we, the jurors, independently discovered damning evidence which neither the prosecution or the defense had noticed, but she wouldn't accept it as being usable.)

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master



 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Oh, I can hear the studios baying already. Great High-Concept flick here: Jurors carry out their own investigation of the crime, and find evidence each side of the case missed.

I'm trying not to be judgemental here, but what is this so-called evidence and how did you come by it? Aren't such situations meant to mean the jury has been unfairly influenced? However, since you all felt the witnesses were unconvincing, you just decided in this case it wouldn't matter too much. Thank Christ for that one juror who actually too his job seriously, I say.

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Well, it depends on how the defense and prosecutions handle their cases.

The Prosecution is of course going to argue that the man's testimony can't be believed: he's lied before, why believe him now?

The Defense will go a different route. Yes, he's lied before. But by telling the truth now to set free an innocent man, he's exposing himself to horrid consequences, such as jail time and possible the death penalty (if he was the one who actually killed the guy). It's his conscience that's killing him now, and he wants to make sure the wrong guy doesn't go down for it.

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Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001


 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Thank God that tabloid newspapers are there to fill in the gaps that the lawyers so carelessly leave behind.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 


Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
 
You gotta love the legal system down there - if it's not one cock up, it's another.

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Plagiarism saves time


 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
No, that's the penal system you're thinking of. 8)

Which wasn't actually meant to be a pun, but that works too!

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
 
*l* I thought it'd take a little longer than the next post for someone to make that comment.

And do you REALLY expect people to believe that the pun wasn't intended.

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Plagiarism saves time


 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Honestly. I mean, come on, Ham, you know me, would I deliberately do something like that? Actually, better not answer. . . 8)

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Well, in our case, the question of intent to sell revolved around the packaging. The guy had way too much cocaine for personal use, and was keeping it in a place too inconvenient for personal use. BUT, the police couldn't find any evidence of 'packaging' like the little papers or bags that dealers generally wrap the stuff in to sell.

BUT... In the jury room, we examined the sandwich bags that the drugs were in. The ones that had never been opened and 'cut' with other stuff were intact. But we noticed that the top fold-over flap (the part you stick back down into the bag to cover your sandwich, you know?) had been almost completely torn out of the bag that had been opened. It had a very jagged edge, suggesting repeated tearing of of small bits.

Now, a guy using the bag to hold his OWN stuff has no reason to do this. But a guy SELLING the stuff would be carrying the packaging with him. Sell a gram, tear off a bit of plastic, instant packaging. More you sell, more bits of the baggie become available for use as packaging.

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"My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q



 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Perhaps he was ripping off the pieces to package his own little supply when he went out for a night on the town?

And why little bits? Could it not have been one LARGE piece ripped off?

You came to one conclusion, the other guy came to a different one.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited January 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited January 23, 2001).]
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Too ragged for a single tear. And still no reason.

No, the other 'guy' didn't come to another conclusion (remind me not to have you as a witness, I said SHE when I spoke about this.). The other 'guy' didn't even LOOK at the evidence. Truthfully, I've never seen anybody so incredibly eager NOT to do ANYTHING, in my life. And she was proud of the fact that she was totally out of touch with reality -- "I don't read newspapers, watch tv, listen to the radio, or read books" -- a direct quote.

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"My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q



 


Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
 
Is this the same case as the one that was appealed last night on the grounds that his attorney was sleeping during the trial?

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I looked at my son, and said, "My god, he's hung like a bear."
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-Robin Williams, "A Night at the Met" 1986
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
No. This defendant's lawyer was wide awake. A snide, thinks-he's-better-than-small-town-people awake, but still awake.

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"My knowledge and experience far exceeds your own, by, oh, about a BILLION times!" -- Q



 


Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
 
Definitely a lawyer!

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Plagiarism saves time


 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I'll get a friend to ask his dealer about packaging. Or maybe I'll find out myself, having a party this weekend.

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Will their be japery?

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 


Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
 
Will there be japery?

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Plagiarism saves time


 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
No, but there will be cake. 8)

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
But will they're be japery?

Erm, no then.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 


Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
 
Japery? wtf is that?

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"President Bush. It's fun saying that. Go ahead, you try." - M. Lucinsky, Spectrum Editor
 


Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :
 
Who cares!!!???

I'm here for the cake. Will there be ice cream? Must be chocolate...

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"Omae o korusu..." - Heero Yuy



 


Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Actually, I was hoping to work a joke in about the kind of cake referred to in "Brass Eye" but I suspect it'd fall a bit flat.

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
I'd get it. And possibly 3, no, 4 other people I know. But they don't read this. Tsk.

Pity Monty, our ex-resident Chris Morris worshipper has returned to his Vixen.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
 




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