Ok ... so after watching the movie I need some questions answered...
What the Hell Happend?!?!?
The ending ... WHAT HAPPEND?
(Note : I Know this may belong in the "Scfi Forum" but theres already an Apes Topic there and well you know... Feel free to move it if you wish.)
[ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Obvious ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, if it's anything like the old movie, he finds the half-buried Statue of Liberty and realizes the planet he's on is, in fact, Earth.
But I doubt it's anything like the old movie.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Nah, the ending to the new movie is nothing like the ending to the old movie. In fact, the new movie seems to be using more of the ending from the novel than the old movie did.
Now, I haven't seen the new Planet of the Apes movies, but I did go to http://www.themoviespoiler.com and check out the ending to the movie. Apparently, Leo brings some sort of peace and cooperation between the apes and the humans. He then gets into his ship and heads for home. He goes back through the temporal cloud and goes back in time to the point at which he left. He then crash lands on Earth in Washington, DC, and finds that Earth is inhabited by apes instead on man. Sooo... I have no idea what the hell this means. But, apparently, Tim Burton did this intentionally.
Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :
Leo crashes on the steps of the Lincoln monument. He goes inside and finds out that it's the Thade monument, after General Thade (the antagonist in the movie). Then a bunch of ape-cops show up and the movie ends. Weird.
Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
This Movie is nothing like the original , the only thing in common between this and the original is Charlston Heston , who makes a short Appearance as General Theads (SP?) Father.
The Story is more of a mix between the Book and Tim Burtons imagination ...
The Opening to the movie and the rising action and the climax were all very good and entertaining but the ending RUINED the entire movie , it was one of the first movies where I left the theaters with no idea what happend.
In Short , Leo after bringing peace between the Apes and the Humans on the distant planet hops into his craft and sets a course back to earth through the space anomoly.
After Crash landing in Washington DC , very badly , smack into the mall and screaching to a halt right into the Lincoln Memorial , or rather what I THOUGHT was the Lincoln memorial , it turns out to be a memorial to GENERAL THEAD , the very Chang like Villin of our film.
The Memorial Credits Thead with bringing Humanity and the Apes together ...
His crash landing is followed by his "capture" by the Washington DC police who are all apes.
Then Bam Fade to Black , roll the credits.
At this point I walked out of the theater a very confused & pissed off movie going person.
======
Now n The Drive back I nailed down two possible explainations
1. This is Tim Burtons twisted way of leaving it open for quite possibly the worst sequel ever made...
2. I Missed something....
Posted by Jeff The Card (Member # 411) on :
No offense ...
But shouldn't this be in General Sci-Fi Discussion?
Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
I already went over that in the first post ...
Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :
Why were you pissed off? Was it because you didn't understand the ending? That doesn't make sense. I loved the fact that the ending was liked that. I was quite excited. I want to see the next one! Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
I'm not really "Pissed off" more like surprised and confused.
It came from left feild you know? I didnt feel any conclusion to the story , it felt like the ending to a back to the future movie but it didnt leave me with teh same feeling of "Oh Thats Gonna be a GOOD sequel" , it left me more like "Uhhhh What the Hell!?"
It was just werid ...
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
I think making people see the next one was the whole point...
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I've read a bit about the ending to this movie, and the only possible explaination that I can come up with is that someone took the other spaceship back in time to a point before that from which the main character originated, thus changing history.
Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
There was no Other spaceship , the Oberon (The ship that crashlanded on The Ape World) was thousands of years old and totally gutted out on the planet , Delta Pod (Leo's First Ship) was destroyed and sunk into a lake. And then theres Alpha Pod , The Pod used by the Chimp and the one that eventually took Leo back to Earth. So there was no other ship .
Nightwing , I know it was an open ending for a sequel , but usually you have an idea of what the sequel is about or atleast what it might be about , this ending doesnt leave anything concrete at all , which is why its werid
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
You just listed TWO other spaceships. Remember, both ships from the original Apes series were presumed destroyed, but Cornelius and Zira still managed to repair one and take it back in time a couple millenia.
Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
This Movie is not like the Originals , there were 3 ships in total in THIS Apes Movie.
Alpha Pod - The first Pod sent buy the USAF with the Chimp On Board. Status: Crash Landed on Earth , after Bringing Leo back.
Delta Pod - The Pod Hijacked by Leo , this pod crash landed on the Planet of the Apes. Status: Destroyed after crash landing into teh jungle and sinking into a lake.
The Oberon - A Huge Space Research Station - Status : Destroyed after Going through the anomoly trying to find Leo and the Chimp.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
OK, then they reverse-engineered the tech to build their own ship. Either way, the apes time traveling to the past is the only explaination, unless the poor fellow has really been jumping between rediculously similar alternate universes.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Erm... From what you people have described, the ending seems to make sense to me. The "spatial anomaly" sent him forward in time to the point where apes are dominating Earth. So, when he went through it again, it would have sent him even farther into the future, right? So, apparently, once he left the planet, this general guy took all the credit for everything, so they made a monument to him. But, not having seen it, I'm just guessing this from what I've read here.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
And the apes rebuilt DC and Crown Vics by coincidence? I doubt it. But still, possible. I'm not quite clear on what happened to humanity this time around.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Was it established that DC was gone in the first place? No-one said so, and I haven't seen the movie...
Posted by Jeff The Card (Member # 411) on :
You just LOVE spoiling yourself, don't you?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I just saw the film yesterday. Very nicely done. Good acting, good plot, good effects, good everything.
Well, maybe not everything. As everyone here has already stated, that ending threw me for a loop. I hated having finally understood just what was going on throughout the whole movie, and then getting another curve ball at the very end with no explanation. Except for the obvious, that Burton set this up for a sequel.
There were several "throw-in" sort of gags, too, which worked out nicely in my opinion:
SPOILERS
1.When Leo grabs the gorilla soldier's boot, the gorilla's line was the same as Heston's when he was captured, only substituting "human" for "ape."
2. Heston, as Thade's father, states "Damn them, damn them all to hell," before he dies, referring to the humans. No need for explanation here.
3. The brand symbol looks like the Oberon spaceship (which looks like the Trade Federation battlecruiser from TPM).
4. I saw "Nova" in the credits, but wasn't sure which character she played.
5. The ruins of the Oberon coincidentally looked like the Statue of Liberty.
6. The final scene, although still confusing, is reminiscent to the beginning of the POTA movie where Zira & Cornelius emerge from the spaceship to be greeted by 20th century humans, only this time in reverse.
Again on the topic of the ending, remember the original movies? There were two ships: Taylor's & Brent's. Brent's was pretty well bashed up, but Taylor's was in good condition, only sunk at the bottom of a lake. Although not explicitly stated, Zira & Cornelius must have fished the ship out, launched it, got caught in the same time/space anomaly Taylor did, and was sent back in time. It is entirely possible Thade did the same thing.
[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
It was called Escape from the Planet of the Apes. Leo just messes things up. If it wasn't for him trying to geet that chimp the Planet of the Apes would have never happened. When he leaves back through the time warp he changes the apes must of taken back over the planet. If he would of stayed it would make for what I think a much better sequel. Leo didn't care about anyone but himself? The reason he helped that woman was because if he didn't she wouldn't show him a way out.
You remember how they kept saying apes are afraid of water. It would of been cool if the humans built damns and when the apes came they would release it on them. I can imagine Thade saying, "Retreat, retreat." Actually and think he would keep going and drown. Didn't Thade die.
[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Dr Phlox ]
Posted by Dr. Obvious (Member # 271) on :
Ok I see you guys have somthing mixed up .. in this Movie , The Planet of the Apes , and Earth are to seperate planets , not one in the same.
Also , after leaving the POTA , Leo's ship went BACK in time.
Dukhat - I felt the same way , after Leo left the planet I thought i had everything tied up and was very impressed with the movie , but the ending just to quote you , threw me for a loop. Obviously its a set up for a sequel or four but it was very badly done.
Now Dukhat , did you notice that in the ending scences , one of the Ape Cops , took a picture of Leo ? I wonder what that could mean...
Posted by Jeff The Card (Member # 411) on :
They're different planets?
Okay ... the Apes from Planet of the Apes found the other spaceship, got to Earth, and made sure the Apes became the dominant species instead of humans. Somehow, ape history evolved rather similar to human history, with ...
Oh, hell, it's too early for this.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Well, it's not out here for a couple of weeks, but I got to saw it last night, had some contacts who were able to get me some tickets to a preview screening (yes, I have to brag). 8)
My only explanation is that somehow, PotA and Earth ARE the same. Thade - who wasn't dead, remember? - was, after Davidson's departure, able to rise to power again somehow. This wouldn't actually be too difficult, given most apes weren't at Calima to see the truth and would still see humans as animals. Then, Thade accomplished his goal, eradicating humanity as a species and using technology gleaned from the Oberon's databases.
Thus, Leo has essentially screwed up twice: first by forcing the Oberon to search for him and thus condemning it; second, by leaving PotA at a crucial time and not consolidating the changes he made there.
Of course, this theory isn't very sound. Navigational readings indicated PotA wasn't Earth. Why did his chronometer appear to go forward then back (and note it appeared to only go forward 600 years, whereas Ari refers to "thousands of years" of history), which isn't excatly likely anyway? And you're telling me there was enough fuel on Alpha Pod to land, then take off again (from an Earth-like gravity well at that), then fly all the way back from wherever the Oberonwas orbiting, to Earth (in a few minutes), and land there?
Must be some sort of parallel universe thing, I guess. Not only did he go forward then back in time, he also crossed over.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
The POTA couldn't have been the same planet as Earth. It had three moons.
Also, IIRC, the "Thade-braham Lincoln" monument stated that Thade was responsible for bringing together apes & humans, not eradicating them. At least, that's what someone here said. They could have been wrong.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I've heard people whining about the ending of the new POTA. "It's bad." "I can't understand it." SO WHAT? It's a symbol of good filmmaking. You are supposed to decide. Those who say it is the worst ending ever just because they can't understand it can have their opinions, but maybe they can't use their imagination. You are not supposed to understand it, it was not made to be understood, and it is a great ending because of it. Can anyone who does not like it say it wasn't creative, cool, and original? If you can say it is one of those, it is a good ending.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
You made basically the same comment in the other POTA thread. You don't have to repeat yourself. I'm sure everyone who is reading this thread is reading the other one.
Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :
POTA in the new movie is some wierd planet. THe anomoly must of been time and space and not just time.
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
Lee : Perhaps a Thousand years in POTA time , is not the same as Earth Time. Its True Thade didnt Die.
Did You catch that last line from Ari ? About How in a thousand years they will say a man came from the stars and saved the world and no one would believe it?
I was thinking Perhaps over time the story had become screwed up and twisted so that Thade was credited with bringing Humanity and Apes together...
I dont know , I still havent been able to figure it out , I'm just gonna have to wait until the sequel , which I'm pretty sure will be utter crap story wise but I guess I'm gonna have to watch it to put a conclusion on this story.
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
I've been thinking --
Why do you cap odd, and seemingly random words? Perhaps, in a thousand years, people will. Today, however, we only capitalize nouns and the beginnings of sentences.
Think about it.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
So at least one of you has read my post on the POTA category in General Sci-Fi. No one has responded, though. I want a decent argument about this. Maybe Dr. Phlox can help me.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"You are not supposed to understand it, it was not made to be understood, and it is a great ending because of it."
So, I could write a political thriller, and at the end have the president revealed to be made out of cheese, and then have the Earth blow up for no reason, but then get replaced by a giant horse, it would be a good film?
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
"So, I could write a political thriller, and at the end have the president revealed to be made out of cheese, and then have the Earth blow up for no reason, but then get replaced by a giant horse, it would be a good film?"
I would definitely see a film like that.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Brilliant, PsyLiam! It would be funny!
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
Then again, you're the kind of guy who thought Wagons East! should've won an Academy Award, aren't you ... ?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Actually, I suspect Veers favourite film would be The Worst Witch.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
What's with all this SW bashing lately?
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Um, my name "Veers" is a character from Star Wars, Penguin. If that is any help.
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
Yes, as it says in your quote. And it's not Star Wars bashing as much as its Veers bashing ...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Actually, it wasn't even "Veers bashing". so much an an opportunity to subject others to the horros of the The Worst Witch. Since Tom (bastard) subjected me to it, I've tried to claw my eyes out three times, and I have convulsions everytime someone offers me curry.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
My God, it looks horrible...
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
I get to go see this flick on Tuesday.
I'd go see it tommorow, but my Jeep's getting a front end alignment, brake work, and a tuneup.
So I'll be without transportation.
So I'll see it Tuesday.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Damn. Forgot the moons. . .
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Jeff: Why in the world do you always go on and on about how great your car is, when it seems you never actually have it out of the shop, except long enough to crash it or run over a deer, or something?
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Because he has a small penis, of course. But then, with Simon "own gravitational pull" Sizer around, everyone's is small by comparison. 8)
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
Because my Jeep is great. However, for those who do not own their own transportation (or are lacking in the "maintenance" department):
Regular maintenance is important to the life of your car. There are three types of such: preventative, emergency, and fun.
"Fun" maintenance is just what it sounds like. It's installing new side steps, or taking the Jeep to the wash. It's getting it detailed, or putting on new seat covers, or perhaps putting in a new sound system.
"Preventative" maintenance is what you do to make sure it keeps running well. This includes getting your tires rotated every 7k miles, going to JiffyLube for fluid changes every 3k, and making sure the car is in good working order. This is why my car is in the shop now. At 60k, it's time to get a lot of stuff done: just about every fluid has to be changed, the spark plugs have to be replaced, and in my case, the serpantine belt also needs to be changed, the alignment needs to be adjusted, and the brakes have to be fixed.
"Emergency" maintenance is what Triple-A is for. If you don't know what Triple-A is, or what its for, you most likely do not own a car. Or, perhaps, Triple-A is another "American" only thing, so: Triple-A is a roadside service. Blow a tire, the car blows up, etc., Triple-A'll bail you out and tow the vehicle to a repair station. That's essentially what "emergency" maintenance is: anything doing with much needed repairs to the car that ceases functioning when you are not at a repair facility.
Now, since I do work pizza delivery, I am often engaging in "preventative" maintenance. More so then most, I would imagine, since I clock about 500 miles a week on that vehicle. Which is why my car sounds like its always in the shop. Rest assured, it isn't always in the shop. Usually just a few hours a day, one day a month. This month is a bit different from that.
Okay?!?!?!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I'd like to fix up my car. First with the preventative maintenance mentioned by JeffyK, as well as some body repair and a paint job.
After that, comes fun maintainance. Which will include fixing up my car to look like something from the pages of Import Tuner.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"Preventative" maintenance is what you do to make sure it keeps running well. This includes getting your tires rotated every 7k miles, going to JiffyLube for fluid changes every 3k, and making sure the car is in good working order. This is why my car is in the shop now. At 60k, it's time to get a lot of stuff done:"
Going by that, I need to rotate my tires once every 5 years. (What on Earth is getting your tires rotated anyway? Surely it can't be just turning the tires around, as they tend to do that anyway.)
If I need to put it in every 60,000 miles, then roughly once an ice age should keep it in fine trim. Although, if I have to drive to JiffyLube to get the oil changed, it would probably be less than that.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Rotating the tires means putting the front tires on the back wheels and the back tires on the front wheels. In a front-wheel drive car, the front tires wear down much faster than the back tires, so you switch them to keep the better ones in front. And vice versa on a rear-wheel drive car.
I'm surprised you actually pay someone to do all that stuff, Jeff. I'm by no means a car junkie, certainly less so than you, but even I change my own oil and rotate my own tires.
[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :
Actually, tire rotation is a little more complicated than that.
Say, for instance, that your vehicle's tire arrangement is as follows:
1--2
3--4
When you finish rotating the tires, it would look like this:
4--3
2--1
[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: Mr. Christopher ]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Rotating tyres seems to be a bit of a lost art in the UK. I havn't found anyone who does it (although my dad used to). People still change their oil, but mainly when something bad happens, or they want to kill a couple of hours.
Aren't we bad people?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes, rotating tires can involve crossing them over, too, if you really want to work at it. But I was simplifying matters, since I was trying to explain it to people who had no idea what it was at all. :-)
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
In one thread we go from Apes to rotating tires. Or how about apes rotating tires.
Man, *sniff* I love this place!
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
What a bad movie. And I don't mean the ending (not claiming to understand it, mind you), it was just a really bad movie ...
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
quote:Did Apes Steal Ending?
Director Kevin Smith told fans on his official View Askew Web site message board that he considered suing Planet of the Apes director Tim Burton for allegedly appropriating Apes' surprise ending from one of Smith's comics. The image in question appeared on page 7 of Jay and Silent Bob No. 3 and mirrors the ending of Burton's Apes remake.
"Believe me, I contemplated legal action," Smith wrote to fans, who first made the connection. The image gives away the controversial ending of Burton's movie.
But Burton denied he stole the idea from Smith. "I have not seen the image, and anybody that knows me knows I do not read comic books," Burton told the New York Post. "And I especially wouldn't read anything that was created by Kevin Smith."
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Insult Kevin Smith and die!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Mallrats isn't as good as Clerks.
(Although Clerks: The Animated Series is sheer class.)
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
Mallrats blew.
Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :
*can't wait for "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" to come out*
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And, by some magical merging of that and another film we're all talking about:
