This could be the best question I've ever asked during my time here. Well, let's see.
Has anyone here ever gone to the ISA Experience seminar (Institute for Self-Actualization)?
It would be great to be able to relate more to the persons here I might've had prejudice about. They celebrate their 25th anniversary in february, so I'm thinking there's a lot of you "adults" ;-) who've had the chance to do it long before me. I talked to a guy from Manchester who also had done it, in London, and it was very interesting to hear about the differences between our countries. I know Chicago has had it for a long time.
This would be so damnably cool since we would all know pretty much the same persons holding the seminars.
So, if there are any of you out there, maybe we should use ICQ, or just plain email.
Respect
Niklas Peterson, "laaaazy!!!"
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Also, there's the YPE (Young Persons' Experience?) and the GIT (Graduate Intensive Training), who both pretty much go hand in hand with ISA. Any takers there?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'm going to guess that "GIT" isn't a British organization...
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
If it is, it hasn't many members.
Can someone explain to me what this is all about? I mean, if I want to be Actualized, yes, I'll do it myself - but in the privacy of my own home, thank you very much.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And if it's British, shouldn't it be "actualised"?
I'm with Lee though. I don't need others telling me how to do my own god-damn actualising. Bloody communists.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
They sound kind of...well, scary.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Well it is not a sect or a brotherhood or some stonecutter-crap. It is just about getting to know yourself and your way of thinking/reacting. It's the usual seminar-deal actually, just go for it and do the best you can.
It has similarities to WeightWatchers actually, in that you feel comfortable with others that were as motivated as you to come, and you don't get hit over the head with a stick if you answer wrong at questions. Much more than that I can't say without it being taken out of context.
If you want to pass judgement, sure, I don't care, I did expect some defensive kneejerk-reactions, you know.
And don't flatter yourselves, kitties, I didn't start this thread to preach and "convert" y'all, I came looking for fellow graduates. Although I warmly recommend it to anyone who wants to challenge him-/herself to new heights.
It would've been really cool if someone here had done it. Doesn't matter, you're a fun lot.
"Pee-Ess" And the man who came up with it was danish, so no kicking the brits, aiit? "Dee-Ess"
[ January 29, 2002, 01:01: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
So you all cram into a hall where some (doubtless American, whatever countyry you're in) guy with a headset microphone says "Be all that you can be! Maximise ytour potential! Pick your goals carefully, then go all out to achieve them! Give 110 percent! That'll be $150 please."
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Haha, yyeaah. A bunch of righteous people trying to find salvation. It can't be explained, you have to do it. I could go through every step we did with you and still it would just go in through your left ear and out the right. By participating, you take it to another level in your gulliver. Apple?
Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
It does sound like a cult, almost like Scientology *shudder*
Each to his own, I suppose, but I think I'll stear clear. Going to the next level sounds expensive.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It is a bit disturbing how quickly you've jumped into a defensive "us against them" mode, based solely on a slightly negative comment from me.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Come now Simon. They might have read it you know. Not everyone here hangs on your every word as Gospel, believing you to be the light that awakens the world every morning.
And those people should be killed, for their ignorance of the glory of the church of Sizer.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I was addressing Nimrod, actually. Or so I thought.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Well now you think I was retorting to your comment alone, that's were the so handy word "you" fall a bit short. I was mostly adressing the comedians, and I understand why they said what they did. I certainly don't want to entertain any sort of polarity. So if that's what you felt, I'm sorry.
And you know what, Simon? You're right, it can be scary. And they provide an environment where that's ok.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Liam: You, otoh, are a tit.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
So, I'm guessing "turn the other cheek" isn't exactly a major tenet of this cult.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Now who's being jumpy? It was a joke, like "Monty Python"-tit. Liam's "bloody communists" was as much far off. I shouldn't have to insert smilies everywhere.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Nimmy's right. At least until England gets knocked out of the world cup. Then we thrash him to within an inch of his life, and make him beg for mercy.
But, until then, we like him. Remember that.
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
Sounds interesting, but what sort of activities are involved? The website's rather vague. I didn't really see anything I haven't seen in New Age and self-help books.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Mostly listening and participating in simple exercises. It's just a seminar, it won't change anything, unless you want it to. That's up to you.
Mostly it has to do with common sense and old truths, and surprisingly enough they don't feel nagging the way they are presented.
More than that is hard to say. It has helped me a lot to get my life going, like getting comfortable with my new job and job rhythm, getting my apartment up to snough.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Suddenly I'm interested. I've been feeling a great emptiness in my life for some time now, and I've had this vague suspicion it's that my house hasn't been snoughed. 8)
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I just brought my apartment up to snuff. Moved some furniture around, dragged my dresser out of the closet. Dusted out my TV shelf, pulled up my rug and vaccumed under it. Ah, it's so pretty now. I should post pictures.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Please don't.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Who'm I kidding?
[ February 01, 2002, 17:24: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You mean your appartment isn't up to snough?
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
No, not that. I decided to change my reply early this morning, I decided the kidding-factor of the thing was found wanting.
The flat is almost getting good readings at the snuffhaben-scale, but there is much more yet to be done. Should've seen the other guy, though. Yep, more trips to IKEA is to be expected, kitties.
Although that Feng shui-book by Karen Kingston I got for christmas (nudge-bloody-nudge) actually was interesting. Perhaps it'll help me more than IKEA could ever do...
*ten men in blonde perm-wigs and jogging-suits kick the door in, ripe zucchinis akimbo, and whacks Niklas to lala-land, careful not to harm the exquisite furniture suite*
Just kidding, I didn't get the suite..
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
As zucchini have neither hands nor hips, I'm forced to wonder how they can be akimbo...
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Allright, squash then! Is that more to thy liking, sir?
Some people... Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Well, I had an easier time picturing zucchini akimbo than squash. . .
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
Well, you can but try.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Do or do not. There is no try.
Posted by G.K Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
No, try, try again. The eternal crossroads, to Retry, abort, or perhaps fail? (this might not make much sense to you youngsters out there...)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yoda vs. DOS?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And as I am overcome with the spirit of Tim, I am forced to ask: Wasn't it Abort, retry, fail?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
I apologize for the resurrection of an old thread, but you'll see there's a reason for it.
I discovered the hard way that ISA is a cult, engaging in coercive mind control, brainwashing, manipulation and verbal abuse, among other things. They unfreeze your ethical and psychological foundations, suppress and question your old behaviour and attitudes, then refreeze you, this time with their own doctrine on top. It's rather ingeniously orchestrated.
The turning point came when I found www.factnet.org, a website working for awareness and against cults, coercive mind control, thought reform and other things.
My last three months have been the worst in my life.
I have to go to sleep now, it's very late, but I wanted to post this now and open that damn pandora's box, in case I don't have the same guts tomorrow. I have virtually nobody to talk to, the swedish equivalent of www.factnet.org is taking forever in corresponding with me.
I'll tell you more tomorrow. Unless I get sued, ha ha. Get it? A little scientology-humor there...
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
This would perhaps sit better in the Flameboard, now that things have changed.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'd forgotten what this thread was about, but, since it said "ISA" and talked about computers at the top of this page, I wondered, if ISA is a cult, what does that make PCI and AGP? Then I went back and looked at page 1 and remembered the thread.
Posted by Tora Buttercup (Member # 53) on :
Now, I think you give yourself too little credit, Nimpim. I don't know what they fed you in the three months you were in contact with ISA, but are you sure you wouldn't have noticed if they told you something really wrong? I mean, the thing to realize is, for something like this to work they'd have to tell you something that could make your life better if it weren't twisted around. With that aside, you should still pat yourself on the back for getting out before you sank too deep and having the awareness to do so. I'll bet that after these three months it'll be harder for anybody to manipulate you again. Now that's not a total waste of time at all, so there's no need to feel bad about it, all right? Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
You have a good point, Tora. It's good to make sure your feet are on the ground. The thing is, it hurts for me to discover that I've been "processed" through undue influence.
They soften you up before delivering the really heavy stuff, at the last day, so in the end you agree to justifying verbal abuse, psychological child abuse, water/food/sleep-depravation, systematic lying to persons in your life to make them join. And the divulging of your innermost secrets and sins to all the group, to confuse your inner self that wants to protect those things.
The key to getting someone to join is to prohibit the person from making an informed decision. At that point the person has freedom of choice but no information.
Days or weeks of involvement later, after being "love-bombed" and brought into the inner circles in terms of understanding, learning, friendship, purpose and activity a person loses their sense of objectivity, that free choice; the ability to make an informed decision. By this point one has a lot more information, but no longer has freedom of choice.
to weaken the defenses.
I lost 7 pounds my first weekend, had migraines and threw up several times. That was my old psyche fighting a losing battle to stand its ground.
Posted by Colorful Cartman (Member # 256) on :
You got out on your own. That tells me you're strong-willed, hard to break mentally, and tough as nails character-wise. So whatever the shit you've been going through lately, focus on the fact you beat those fuckers at their own game. In a few years you'll be able to look back on this period of your life with a heartily laugh, which is what *true* actualisation is all about. Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
Well thank you, "Eric", I'll try to remember that.
It's that I'm worried about my girlfriend, she started six years before me and thinks there's nothing wrong with it. If I'd had no more strings attached to it, I could walk away clean. But my former therapist and my girlfriend are both supporters of ISA, so I feel like I'm faced with the ancient "have the cookie and eat it".
I must not be melodramatic and make rash decisions, but it's also important I don't trivialize the whole thing. That has earlier led to me several times sliding back into the comfort of the group, where there's no need to make any decisions, just try to be like everyone else.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
You'll excuse me if I don't step backwards in amazement.
Posted by Colorful Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Niklas, the only advice I can give you is to be careful. More often than not, the harder you try to help, the further you alienate your friend and put his/her back up completely.
I know it isn't much, but you might find some useful information (like tips on how to deal with these issues) here.
Hang in there.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
I don't know if I'd be too terribly keen on having my Therapist being a cultist. You know.
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
Yeah no shit. But I can't just ignore all the good things he's done to me, I have gotten my life sorted out more compared to four years ago.
As I said, I'm walking on eggshells. The man is my friend, just because I choose to discard ISA doesn't necessarily mean ending our friendship. I have to be weary, is all.
Anyway, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
[ August 22, 2002, 23:49: Message edited by: Nimpim ]
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