Is it like capture the flag? What are holding the "points"? Why is it so damn expensive?
If I were asked to lay out a perfect Counter-Strike game from the POV of one of the teams, I would say:
"Playing CS_Italy, the Counter-Terrorist team consists of 12 players. Three players rush left from the spawn, and penetrate the Terrorist spawn through the Wine Cellar, eliminating any rushing Terrorists they see. Three players rush through the middle apartment to secure the center bridge leading to the Terrorist Spawn. The remainder of the team rushes right, through the marketplace, and cover each other through an advance through the tunnel. All players converge on the hostage house, and throw flash-bangs and grenades to distract the terrorists at the moment of attack. Using the commands, players escort the hostages to the CT Spawn while guarding from Terrorists who escaped death."
Or,
"The Terrorist team Spawns at the top of the map. Two Terrorists camp the tunnel, four (armed with sniper rifles) camp the Hostage House, two others camp the Spawn proper, and the four remaining rush the bridge to the center apartment to sieze the CT Spawn. And so on, and so on ..."
And why IS it so expensive ... ?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er...isn't it free?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I don't own Half-Life, I bought the retail pack for Counter-Strike, so I'd have to buy the retail pack for Team Fortress Classic.
So, no.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yes, but both Team Fortress Classic and Counter-Strike are available for free, assuming you've already got Half-Life, which you must if you're playing Counter-Strike.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Apparently, you didn't read my post.
I bought the retail version of Counter-Strike which is a stand alone. Otherwise, I could have bought Half-Life and downloaded the CS mod. However, I didn't.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Just for fun ... a 12 player team of Counter-Terrorists on the CS_Italy.
Starting from the CT Spawn on the bottom of the page, the team splits into three units: two of three, one of six.
The first team of three proceeds left from the spawn, heading towards stairs leading to the wine-cellar. Players advance under cover to the wine cellar, and throw grenades to flush out any Terrorists camping inside the first room, while watching for ambushes from the ground-level street or the bridge. Breaching the room, the players race down the stairs (leading the way with a flash-bang), and clear the wine cellar's main room of any Terrorists. They proceed through the halls and await under the exit.
The second team, also of three, proceeds right from the CT spawn and leaps on boxes to gain entry to the middle apartment. Moving quickly to their left, then right up stairs, they set up an ambush for any rushing Terrorists, then proceed through the apartment to the bridge leading to the Terrorist spawn. One team member armed with a scoped weapon watches for any waiting Terrorists.
The third team, of six, moves to the right from the spawn and rushes into the marketplace. Two players duck and cover as the other players move in groups of two to secure both entrances to the marketplace. Once secured, players secure the street in front of the tunnel, while one moves to take up position to intercept an ambush leading from the center street.
At this point, the riskiest part of the operation begins. With a command given by the team leader, all three units move into action.
The wine cellar team burst out into the open, given partial cover by the bridge over the exit. It's their job to take out any Terrorist snipers, and then proceed to the side of the Hostage House and gain entry via the second-floor window, utilizing the boxes outside.
The second team, in the middle apartment, advance (being careful to check for Terrorists on top of the room). Rushing to the side of the building, they engage any Terrorists on the Hostage House porch, or guarding the entry.
The third team has the most dangerous job, being under direct threat from snipers in the Hostage House main window, not to mention Terrorists waiting in ambush among the hiding places in the tunnel. Advancing under cover of thrown smoke grenades, this team advances to the mouth of the tunnel, before charging the main entry of the Hostage House.
Once the Terrorist Spawn and the Hostage House have been cleared, the Counter-Terrorists "rescue" the hostages, and proceed through a pre-arranged route back to the rescue point at the Counter-Terrorist spawn, being careful to avoid ambush by any Terrorists who avoided being intercepted and killed.
Advancing on Terrorists hidden within a mountain fortress is dangerous, especially with the advantages they have.
Six Counter-Terrorists advance through the front yard, armed with scoped weapons. Using the rock boulders as cover, they engage any rushing Terrorists, as well as snipers on the roof or in the front room.
Six Counter-Terrorists rush the sewer system, and split into two groups of three each at both egresses. Tossing flash-bangs, they rush up the ladders and overwhelm any Terrorists camping the backyard.
With all outside Terrorists eliminated, the most dangerous phase of the operation begins. There are five ways into the house --
The first is the garage vent, a dangerous entry which exposes a Counter-Terrorist to fire from enemies in the Attic or Garage (where the Hostages are).
Four skylights on the roof can be shot in and provide drop-in entry for team members to the top floor. There are also front and back entries on the top floor decks.
There are front and rear doors on the main floor as well. Ideally, the front yard team should rush the main door and clear the living room.
At a given signal, the Counter-Terrorists in the living room should toss an arsenal of flash-bangs and grenades into the kitchen, followed by a rush not only by them, but also by half of the sewer team's members. Once the kitchen area is secured, all Counter-Terrorists should rush the garage/attic, using flashbangs and grenades to clear the way.
***
Fun, huh? Can someone write something like that for a Team Fortress Classic level?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I certainly hope not.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh, hush. Come on, Charles, or Jeff Raven ... you can do something like that, can't you?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
More to the point, I had no idea they sold Counter-Strike as a stand-alone product.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
And Team Fortress Classic, too.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, I'm having fun with this. Nim, chime in, hmmm?
The Counter-Terrorist Team Smash or Be Smashed prepares to play on CS_Italy. Their plan is the same as shown above.
(SoBs) Wake commands Unit 1 consisting of (SoBs) Felix and (SuXs) Jay.
(SoBs) Centurion commands Unit 2, consisting of (SoBs) Killer, and (SuXs) Neddley.
(SoBs) Bagger commands Unit 3, consisting of (SoBs) Dirgler, (SoBs) Youngin, (SuXs) Baby Jesus, (SuXs) Nimmy, and (SuXs) Dartho.
The game begins. The Units move in their assigned direction -- Unit One towards the Wine Cellar, Unit Two to the Middle Apartment, and Unit Three through the Marketplace.
Emerging onto the street, (SoBs) Felix, armed with an MP5-Navy, covers the area as Wake and Jay race up the stairs. They take some fire from the bridge, and Wake returns fire, wounding a Terrorist who ducks into the Center Apartment, as Jay tosses a grenade into the Wine Cellar's first room. He ducks in, and secures it as Wake provides cover for Felix, who races in.
Unit Two, meanwhile, advances into the Center Apartment, and begins setting up their ambush. Terrorists precede their charge with flash-bangs and hand grenades, and although Centurion and Killer both register kills, all three members of the Counter-Terrorist team are eliminated.
Unit Three breaches the Marketplace, with Dirgler and Baby Jesus providing cover as other team members move around the Marketplace. There's a brief fire-fight when a rushing Terrorist bursts out of the tunnel, but Bagger takes him down. Dartho, covering the main street entry, is ambushed by two Terrorists, who also manage to bag Youngin before being killed. At about this time, the Center Apartment team is eliminated -- Bagger, the Counter-Terrorist force commander, sees the "deaths" register on his monitor -- time is of the essence. He gives the "Go! Go! Go!" order and throws smoke grenades into the tunnel.
Unit One secures the entire Wine Cellar -- there were no nesting Terrorists. Wake takes up post by the exit, and sees a Terrorist camping above with a scoped weapon. The Terrorist is staring at the tunnel's entry, and Wake doesn't engage -- he doesn't want to give away his team's position too soon. Bagger's order comes in, and Wake bursts from hiding, taking the Terrorist out. Sadly, another Terrorist was camping a bit down the street, and shoots Wake in the back before being taken out by combined fire from Felix and Jay.
The advance is quick, and a Terrorist camping in the side alcove is killed. A Terrorist sniper kills Nimmy. By Bagger's count, eight dead Terrorists equal only four living Terrorists.
Jay and Felix race up to the Hostage House. Jay throws in his flash-bang, and Felix throws his grenade. The resulting explosion injures a hostage, but Felix, first in the window, is shot and killed by a Terrorist.
Meanwhile, the remainder of Team Three -- Bagger, Dirgler, and Baby Jesus race into the Hostage House through the main entry and secure the main floor. The charge up the stairs is dangerous -- they take heavy fire from two Terrorists armed with AK-47s -- but with Jay's breach, and the multiple targets, one is killed and the other beats a quick retreat, and Baby Jesus makes a lucky head-shot with his M4 to take him out.
Bagger does a quick assessment -- most of the team is dead, and there are still two live Terrorists out and about. He's only got Baby Jesus, Dirgler, and Jay to work with. He orders Dirgler to grab the hostages, and sets up the order for the rescue: Bagger and Baby Jesus in the lead, Dirgler and the hostages behind them, and Jay in the rear.
Bagger knows the remaining Terrorists are probably camping the Counter-Terrorist spawn. It doesn't matter which route to return he takes, they'll be waiting in ambush. Deciding to take the Center Apartment, the team sets out. The rush through the Center Apartment is quick, and the view from the window overlooking the CT Spawn reveals no Terrorists.
Bagger leaps out of the window, and instantly takes fire. A Terrorist, crouched under the overhang, was waiting for him. It's too late for Bagger to do anything -- he was wounded in the rush up the Tunnel -- and he's dead, but Baby Jesus (dropping down after the team leader), drops the Terrorist and races towards the Spawn. Dirgler and Jay and the hostages quickly follow and reach the spawn.
The game ends, with one Terrorist and three Counter-Terrorists alive on the board.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
You're writing out the moves of a game, rather than playing it! What's the point of the game's even existing?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
TSN,
I'm trying to figure out what TFC is like. No one has been very clear, so I gave some examples of how I might write out a typical game of Counter-Strike, hoping someone would do the same for TFC for better understanding!
Didn't I SAY that?
Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
My dear friend, JeffK.
quote: I bought the retail version of Counter-Strike which is a stand alone. Otherwise, I could have bought Half-Life and downloaded the CS mod. However, I didn't.
Team Fortress Classic comes bundled with the Retail Version of Counter-Strike. In the main menu, select "Custom Game" to check to see if its There. By going here, You can download the latest patched for it.
TFC is similar to CS in that it is team-based, with team-based objectives. That is usually where it ends. In TFC, rather than each person being the same with only the option of changing your weapon, TFC is class-based. You have 9 different classes. The Scout, Sniper, Soldier, Demolitions man, Heavy Weapons Guy, Medic, Pyro, Spy and Engineer all have varying abilities that serve in the game. Also, death and body damage is much more unrealistic than CS(its more fun that way)
Scout: Very light, very fast. His weaponry is weak, but his speed gives him the advantage of being able to run around slower classes without getting hit. Can perform "conc" jumps. Recommended position: Offense Sniper: Light, not as fast as the scout. He can shoot from far distances. The main class for taking out other snipers, or serving one-shot kills to other classes. Also has an autorifle that is quite deadly. Recommended position: Defense Soldier: heavy armor, somewhat slow. He does the grunt work in the game. His main weapon is a rocket launcher with can attack from distances, or even up close(watch out for splash damage). Can also perform what is called the "Rocket Jump;" utilizing splash damage to make really high jumps. Recommended position: Offense or Defense Demolitions Man: Heavy armor, moderate speed. He blows stuff up. With two types of pipe bombs(one that goes off automatically and one that goes off when you push a key) he's good for setting pipe traps or even annoying the offense with a pipebomb to the head. He can also use his detpack to blow up specific areas in maps. Recommended position: Offense or Defense. Heavy Weapons Guy: Heavy armor, slowest class. Face it, this guy is fat. The prefered class of newbies everywhere, he's slow, takes a lot of damage before dying, and has one of the most powerful weapons in the game. However, those who know how to counter his abilities can them out easily. Good for mowing down people as they come in, but sucks at chasing them down to continue killing if they get away. Recommended position: Defense. Medic: medium armor, moderate speed. The most versatile player class in TFC, the medic can conc-jump his way to an enemy flag and back again with ease in the hands of a skilled player. His combination of supernailgun and fragmentary grenades make them excellent for taking out enemy sentry guns. They also come equipped with a medkit that heals teammates instantly as well as poisons enemy teams. Recommended position: Offense or Defense Pyro: Moderate armor, moderate speed. This guy is all about fire. He comes equipped with an incinderary cannon as well as a flame thrower. While his weapons are weak, in the hands of skilled player he is very useful. He can blind players when they catch fire as well as take little damage from his own flames. His main job is to be annoying rather than racking up kills. Recommended position: Offense Spy: light armor, medium speed. This guys can change himself into any player class on any team. Using his disguise he can infiltrate the enemy base and spy on defensive positions. While he can throw grenades while in disguise, once you touch the flag or use your weapon you'll lose it. Also, being touched by a scout or another spy will also make you lose your disguise. Good players can spot a spy even when you're disguised. Recommended position: Offense Engineer: The backbone of the defense. He can create sentry guns that will fire upon any intruding enemies, except for disguised spies. He can also create a dispenser that allows players to get armor and ammo. The engineer also comes with a spanner that can fill a teammates' armor up with a few whacks. His grenade, the EMP, send out an electromagnetic pulse that ignites the ammo and armor that enemies would be carrying(does not work on the spy I believe). Recommended position: Defense
Map Types: CTF: Capture the Flag. Each team must attack the enemy's base, grap their flag and return it to a raised capture point, all while protecting your flag from being taken. Shutdown: Somewhat like Capture the Flag, only a defensive laser or structure must be shut down first before reaching the flag. Advance/Defend: One team advances the flag to certain points in the map. The defending team gets points for the time it takes for the Blue team to do this. The longer it takes, the more points the defending team gets. King of the Hill: Teams must hold control of a certain point on the map while preventing the enemy team from holding it. Capture Point: In the map there are a number of capture points that each team takes over. By holding back enemies from re-taking the points and taking all the points, points are awarded. Murderball: A team must grab the flag from the center and hold it in your base for as long as possible. Deathmatch: Grab your favorite player class and kill kill kill! Other: There are many other types of maps out there, so remember to read the map info file before playing to get a good idea how the map is played.
I hope that explains it for you, Jeff. I run a map reviewing site if you're looking for good maps. Maybe once you learn the ropes and such.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Thank you, Jeff.
Sadly, my CS disc does not have the Team Fortress Classic mod. Doesn't stop me -- just slows me down a bit
What's the link? I'd like to see some of the TFC maps.
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
Mmm.. I'll post a description of a TFC game tonight.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oi, didn't notice the new thread. Yes, I believe TFC...*looks at Raven's "generous" post*..um, yeah. Basically, I try to get teh rokket launcher and blow everyone to mashed potatoes, then I die a thousand times because standard TFC-deathmatch respawns so damn quick. It doesn't really give me any sense of accomplishment or goal. Last time I played was about eight months ago. Oh!! I just remembered, I have some turkey pastrami in the fridge. That and a glass of milk will produce one satisfied bedgoer.
Oh, I will start CS:ing again when I get the time and win the game, right now I have guinea pigs storming up my butti from the second I turn off the alarm clock. It's a good sign, though. Neo-Nim is awaking, and he's pissed and hungry.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"Then he rolled a three and a five, and I rolled...ah, I rolled a four and a six!"
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
Typical TFC game on a pub:
2fort is the map. Any admins that might have been on either leave or go AFK.
Three and a half thousand llamas show up and perform team deathmatch rather than trying to grab the flag. Those that try to whip their team into some sort of shape fail miserably and go back to their home server. Usually a skilled player shows up and kicks ass, but is usually driven out after accusations of cheating. Usually a few cheaters show up and no one notices.
....
In all seriousness.
It's very difficult to describe the game. It's not group / surgical strike oriented as CS is.
For CTF and variants therof, usually the team splits in roughly half... depending on the division / strength of the opposing team.
One half goes offensive (O), the other stays defensive in the home base (D).
O goes off, sometimes lone wolf, sometimes in teams, to go penetrate the other team's D and grab / cap the flag.
D almost always works as a single unit, focusing in at least one area. Usually this is where engies set up sentries, demomen set pipe traps, etc.
Often the map will end up, at least at one point, with a very lopsided setup, i.e. one team almost all O, the other almost all D to compensate. This gets very boring very quickly. Just one or two of those D players going O can quickly demolish the few D players on the other team...
Anyway. I shall now attempt to describe rock2.
Some background first. rock2 is a sequel of sorts to the original rock. It's a prison-like setup. In the original rock, attempting to enter the enemy respawn would teleport you to one of a set of jail cells. In rock2, you just get splatterized. Not quite as fun though...
To score, you must: 1) Enter the enemy base via the front door or via a tunnel 2a) If via front door, enter the enemy yard and go to the Warden's Office on the left (WO) 2b) If via the tunnel, enter either the enemy yard (if a hole is blown in it) or via the shower area in the Gas Chamber (GC) 3) Take a key (flag) from the WO, through the yard, into the GC building 4) Cap the flag, thereby relasing a toxic gas. Everyone on the map is given about 10 seconds to find a protective suit (there are 5? in each base) or get in the water seperating the bases. 5) Those unprotected by a suit or the water die. The scoring team gets 15 points.
Carefully planned caps can kill everyone - one team caps, then just as the gas is about to hit, the other team caps. As the protective suits haven't had the chance to respawn, anyone that's out of the water is dead meat... and even then,t hose inside the water won't live long with the whole rest of the server in there with'em.
Of course, such events are rare.
rock2 is a very easy map to lock down - set up two sentries in key positions in the yard and keep a demoman at the tunnel w/ a blown yard to keep the tunnel properly sealed. Tada, that's it. Nothing short of a 4+ person coordinated rush can even get in the yard, no less get to the key, out to the GC and to the cap.
Other maps such as the too common 2fort, crossover2, and badlands can also be easily locked down.
This is even more apparent on the servers that I hang out on. We have a rule that prohibits weapon jumping while you have a flag. I.e. you can't rocket / gren / conc / crowbar jump (don't ask) while you are carrying a flag / key / rune / whatever.
One of the custom maps that we ended up pulling from voting / rotation was capable of being locked down by one sentry gun, its engy, and a medic.
Of course, there are also maps that are nearly impossible to lock down. Take wrath..
Wrath is a beautiful map. The textures are pretty good and the design is awe inspiring, esp. considering the engine...
The theme is deceptively simple. One team is D, the other O. The D team has to guard three "relics" (flags) from the other team's hands. Once the O team has a relic, it needs to be taken to one of three cap points. Once all three relics are in place, all the players on the D team die (Tee-hee) and are then sent O to get their relics back.
Wrath is impossible to lock down for more than a few minutes. 3+ sentries and a pair of fatties... er.. HWGuys won't cut it. There are too many entrances and exits to every area. And as it's generally an enclosed space, a few MIRVs can clear things out pretty easily.
Anyway... The only way to experience the game is to spec it or play it.
Go grab TFC, connect to a few pubs.. learn how to walk, shoot, etc.
Then go server hunting. Find a few that offer teamplay. Good luck. Look for "TPF" in the name somewhere, they're often decent.
Avoid any servers by [BD], esp Avatar-X.
And if you feel brave, grab a few custom maps and connect to CoJ...
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