Okay, Omega and I were having a bit of a discussion and thought we'd open it up to everyone. I'm currently reading Harry Turtledove's "American Empire" series and needed some clarifications on things. I must confess, my US history isn't exactly up to par. I'm not too sure on things that happened, like acquisition of land in the formation days. One thing that particularly interests me is the Republic of Texas. How it formed, why'd it join the US, etc. I remember a Sliders episode where they slid into San Francisco but it was part of the Republic of Texas. As they explained in the episode, the Republic remained independant and spread its borders all the way to the west coast or something like that. Any one care to educate me on these matters? Thanks.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Bleh. Flashbacks to seventh grade history. Essentially, you have Stephen F. Austin and his father who convinced the Mexican government to allow US citizens into Tejas to set-up colonies. They did, and they did.
US citizens arose in large groups establishing many large colonies in the hill country and southern coastal plains. Soon, the US citizens were beginning to outnumber the Mexican citizens, so Mexico tried to stem the flow of US citizens into Tejas (now called Texas by the US citizens). The Mexicans and the US citizens got really pissed at each over various things like taxation (US citizens felt they paid too much in violation of the settlement treaties), loyalty (Mexico felt the US citizens should be loyal to Mexico first since Texas was their's), slavery (US citizens wanted it, but Mexico wanted to phase it out), and control (Mexico began asserting greater control on Texas and even took Austin in custody and sent him to prison for a while).
So, war breaks out. The US citizens in Texas declared themselves Texans and rebelled against Mexico. They claimed their independence; a constitution and provisional government was set up at Washington-on-the-Brazos. Sam Houston took control of the Texas Army. Mexican forces always outnumbered the Texan forces and the fights were brutal (the Alamo, Goliad, San Jacinto in particular).
Eventually, Texas won it's independence from Mexico following the Battle of San Jacinto. Santa Ana, leader of Mexico and her forces, was captured and forced to relinquish claims on Texas before being released. The Republic of Texas was proclaimed. There was much rejoicing.
Texas remained an independent nation for several years. Sam Houston served as president multiple times, and he and the other presidents were always switching the capitol of the country from Houston to Austin and back and forth. Finally, Texas decided just to join the US; Texas was annexed soon afterwards. Mexico felt vindicated in some regards seeing as how it was a common belief that the US was behind the rebellion (indeed, the US provided many of the supplies, but never actively joined the conflict).
However, Mexico disagreed about her border with Texas. The US and Texas said it was the Rio Grande. Mexico said it was much further north. So we get the Mexican-American War where the US stomped the Mexicans and made the Rio Grande the border. In addition, Mexico ceded it's territory that covered what is now New Mexico, Arizona, and parts of Nevada, Utah, and Colorado. Part of what was the northwestern portion of the Republic of Texas is sliced off and given to New Mexico. Texas didn't really want it anyway.
Not too long after all that, Texas joins with the Confederacy, although only one battle in the War of Northern Aggression was fought in Texas. The Battle of Palmito Ranch, strangely enough, was fought after the South had surrendered. No email in those days. We beat the crap out the Yankees, too. Many years later, George W. Bush is elected governor of Texas and then becomes the 43rd President of the United States. I'm sure there's other important stuff in there (like the UT A&M rivalry, NASA, etc), but I want to keep this under 5000 words.
And that is what my memory recalls from Texas History. Yay.
Those are the basics.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:War of Northern Aggression
Also appropriately known as the War of Southern Stupidity, and/or the War of Northern Righteousness.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Jeff, please set your iso-sarcasm detector to high when you read my posts. kthxbi.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
If I recall correctly, the US generals who did the original negotiations were actually planning to annex ALL of Mexico as a result of the war. But within a few days, higher-ranked negotiatiors took over and passed on that idea.
Maybe I'm getting the details wrong... however it happened, there was a chance that we could've taken over the entire country. How different would things have gone then?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Less bitching about "damn illegal wetbacks"?
Siggy: don't tell me to set my scarasmometer "hi" when yours is set to "obtuse."
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Now that you mention it, MinutiaeMan, I do vaguely recall something about the US considering conquering all of Mexico. I think we touched on that once in one of my Latin American history classes. As for how things would be different, it's hard to say. The Hispanic voting block would be freakin' huge. We'd have to go to Central America for cheap medication and anything we can't get easily here. And we'd probably be facing some of the internal chaos that Mexico faced in the 19th century (though not all of it).
And, Jeff, I'll tell you what to do if I feel like it, Yankeeboy. kthxbi.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
You're not telling me anything if "kthxbi" actually exists in your vocabulary.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
James K. Polk!
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Y'know, you don't get to say anything until you keep up with your Buffy reviews Simon.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Yeah! Plzkthxbi.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Please? Ok? Thanks. Bye.
That will be one POWARUP, TYVM.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Shibby.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: If I recall correctly, the US generals who did the original negotiations were actually planning to annex ALL of Mexico as a result of the war. But within a few days, higher-ranked negotiatiors took over and passed on that idea.
Other way round. It was originally intended just to annex the bits that eventually were annexed and a negotiator was despatched with instructions to that effect. Then it was decided that in fact the victory was so complete they may as well annex the whole lot but by the time they got the message to the guy doing the negotiating, it was too late.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
We should at least have annexed the Baja Penninsula. Mexico doesn't need it, and if we did, California would be huge! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Think what would happen if we had THREE states as resort destinations -- California, Florida, and Cancun!
'Course, Cancun might as well be part of the US anyway, for all the people that go down there....
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
hrm yes, but then we'd have to go even further to cross the border and buy prescription drugs illegally at Mexican pharmacies
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers: We should at least have annexed the Baja Penninsula. Mexico doesn't need it, and if we did, California would be huge!
More Californians. Just what the world needs. Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
Let's bring everybody in, let's blow the whole economy. Deficit, deficit, deficit. ------------------ If they can't take a joke fuck 'em.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, when Arnie's governor it'll be hasta la vista, deficit...
I'm really truly sorry, but that had to be said.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I just dug up the maps in the Harry Turtledove books, and included in the alternative-history Confederacy were the states of Chihuahua and Sonora, as well as Cuba.
Hmm... Senator Fidel Castro, anyone? Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
I can just see that....
I beieve Turtledove (of whom I'm not a huge fan) refers to a Second Mexican War between Mexico and the CSA.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Cancun is in the state of Quintana Roo, by the way.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Named for the A. A. Milne character normally known by his surname?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Really? I never knew that. What's his first name?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Quintana", I guess, if you believe the Mexicans.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It was originally intended just to annex the bits that eventually were annexed and a negotiator was despatched with instructions to that effect. Then it was decided that in fact the victory was so complete they may as well annex the whole lot but by the time they got the message to the guy doing the negotiating, it was too late.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)