At approximately 4AM (PST w/ DST) this morning, I awoke to the warehouse door being flung open and cops with flashlights and guns yelling at me. I still can't figure out it if this is a bad dream. They ask me if there was anyone else in here, and I hear myself saying that to my knowledge I am the only one. I have my hands up and they ask me to please step out into the hall. In my bedclothes, I shuffle out. I figure maybe they'd chased someone into my building and because I'd forgotten to throw the latch, maybe someone's gotten in without me noticing. I count about six police officers. Maybe seven.
A policewoman makes me sit on the cold concrete outside against the big metal door of the adjoining space (barefoot, bedclothes here). She's got what looks like flashcards asks me if I'm on parole or anything. Asks my name and date of birth, taking everything down. I'm still pretty groggy at this point. Cops are moving around in my space. I guess she goes off to check the records about me. A big asian guy with glasses is my babysitter. He looks pretty awesome in his uniform and utility belt. I try not to shiver. I ask him what's going on. If they maybe were following somebody or got a tip or something.
He says it's because the hallway door was open. ?!? But they've got the guns and flashlights and, WTF? He explains that it would be different if it were a residence and I'd left the gate open. He tells me he's been working this neighborhood a while and never seen the door open at night. We've been trying to make sure the door stays closed at night, but I've been here two years and it's open plenty. At their prompting I explain that there are six units off this hall and which ones do what.
I envy one guy's turtleneck. They ask me what I do here. What the space is for. Seen a lot of liquor bottles. They ask me what kind of movies I make. How much my rent is. How long I've been here. I answer all their questions.
The policewoman who interviewed me before comes back and asks me my name a DOB again, looking at the card she'd written before. I tell her. I spell it again. She asks me if I have a driver's license. I say I do, that it's inside. She asks me where. I tell her it's upstairs. She asks me where upstairs. I tell her I can come get it. Did I mention that there are six armed, presumably trained cops here? I'm a big dude, but even if I were so inclined there's approximately zero possibility of me getting the drop on any/all of them. She insists that she get it. I tell her where the wallet is. I'm fucking freezing at this point. Raining outside. They're probably warm in their body armor. It's more friendly now. No one has touched me. But it's still intimidating as hell.
It's some sort of cock-up with a confidential block on my records. Hooray, I exist. They search some more. I feel weird. They tell me that I should keep the door closed.
If there was an apology, I didn't hear it. They don't even close the big door. They just walk off, joking with one another. I slam the big door. I think later they're patting each other on the back. Stupid civilian. Leaving the door open. Don't they know how dangerous this place is? Fuck anybody could come in here. Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Wow dude. On the bright side - makes for a good story to tell. Hey - you going to post new photos of your place?
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Sounds like a good reason to shut the door every night.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Well, duh. But I mean is an open door really probable cause for coming in with weapons drawn?
As you might imagine it was terrifying. I've been shook up all day. I mean they weren't abusive or anything, but it seems to me like they performed an illegal search of my space without a warrant and without my permission. They didn't even ask me whether the space was mine. If they'd asked, I would have been happy to show them around. I could have put on some pants, shoes. Would a simple apology have been asking too much?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"But I mean is an open door really probable cause for coming in with weapons drawn?"
I doubt it. But you probably ought to ask a lawyer if you want the real answer.
If it is, though, it shouldn't be.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
This is the US, right? Does the police even NEED a cause to do random raids nowadays?
For all we know your place could be an Al-Quaeda international headquarters! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
They probably hoped for some gus making drugs or something that woul get them a citation or an "attaboy" from their CO.
How you can leave your door open like that is beyond me though: probably to the cops as well.
On the bright side, if you were being robbed/tortured/raped or anything else from a Tarintino movie, the cops would have arrived like the calvary.
Good for them: they did not screw around when they thought something was fishy in your building.
Bad for them: No apology to you. that's totalbullshit.
Bad for you: letting that cop go for your wallet. They could have planted anything they wanted in there, while you sat on your doorstep.
Is anything broken? Did they go through any drawers or look at your computer at all?
Those would be serious fuck-ups on their part.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Cops, of course, never cop to anything.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I believe (and take this for what it's worth from my Law & Order world) the police need either probable cause or a warrant to enter property. If they had time to call a back-up team, they may have had time to get a warrant, which in turn might've given them the right to search through all your crap. But, they would probably be required to show you the warrant, or at least tell you they had one. I can't iamgine they had one, though, as an open door hardly seems justification for a search warrant.
My guess is that they entered on "probable" cause, which most likely gave them the ability to search the premises for reasons of securing it, but likely not to search through possesions. Anything they found in plain sight, though, such as all that bomb making equipment and survivalist literature you have laying about, would've been fair game though Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
WTF - this was for real? I thought you were writing some sort of short story!?!
Heavily armed policed forced their way into your premesis, your HOME and they can just DO that?
WTF!?!
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Oh, quite real. I wish it was just a story. And technically it was my place of business. I just sleep there a lot. Gas is up to US$2.40/gallon and it's a pretty long haul home. I explained this to one of the cops.
To my knowledge they didn't touch the computers, noticed them, but didn't touch. The only thing I know they opened was a little painted box near my where my wallet was. To be fair, it looks like a stash box. It has a bunch of foreign coins and dice as well as a few old hair thingies of an ex-girlfriend in it. The reason I know they opened it is precisely because this box was a gift from my ex, and as that story is a particularly painful one, I keep the lid on it. Hadn't opened it in years.
I mean the door into my unit was closed. I just hadn't set the interior latch. What can I say, I was profoundly tired and I grew up in a nice neighborhood? The option of giving my permission for them to search was never even there. Even if I'd been allowed to be there as they searched, I would have appreciated that as I could make sure they were just looking for a criminal. Fuck, I would have appreciated a pair of slippers and some pants.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
So, they made you stand outside in your boxer shorts?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Sit, and I was in my PJs.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmm... maybe I should start wearing something to bed...
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Balaam, can you remember if you've seen any small cuban boys living with your neighbors?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Hmmm... maybe I should start wearing something to bed...
No shit! I dont know how well I'd fight back in the buff.
I wonder how many cops have been shot by people thinking they were being home-invaded/robbed/whatever.
These guys did bust in unannounced, right?
You should contact a lawyer for advice and have them find out why the police raided you: If there's something bad going on where you work, you need to know- if there's no reason, you have a lawsuit.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
At the very least, you can lodge a complaint about being forced to sit outside in cold, freezing weather without the appropriate clothing. Based on the pictures you've posted before of your warehouse, I don't see what the problem could have been with sitting in the large open area downstairs.
That's a bummer of a story, though. Luckily, nothing bad happened (aside from the cold spell last night).
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
quote:Gas is up to US$2.40/gallon
ROFL, I wish fuel here was so cheap!
Come over here for a while before you complain about something that's not worth complaining about!
OTOH, here you also won't find police ransacking your place in the middle of the night without proper warrant or justification.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yeah, never complain about local conditions, but instead keep in mind that those conditions that affect your life are different in places where you're not at. It makes perfect sense.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Man, it sure is dusty and dry on Mars. I wish it would rain there.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Phht. Try getting Pizza delivered to Europa.
Gas here is abut $2.20: I just dropped $10 getting to Miami and back today.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I believe (and take this for what it's worth from my Law & Order world) the police need either probable cause or a warrant to enter property. If they had time to call a back-up team, they may have had time to get a warrant, which in turn might've given them the right to search through all your crap. But, they would probably be required to show you the warrant, or at least tell you they had one. I can't iamgine they had one, though, as an open door hardly seems justification for a search warrant.
My guess is that they entered on "probable" cause, which most likely gave them the ability to search the premises for reasons of securing it, but likely not to search through possesions. Anything they found in plain sight, though, such as all that bomb making equipment and survivalist literature you have laying about, would've been fair game though
According to my Public Defender wife, the police do not necessarily need a search warrant in that they could have been acting on a tip such as: �We saw a person break into this place and there may be someone in danger.�
On the other hand, she seemed to feel that the �we saw the door open� excuse for the search was rather flimsy in that she felt it highly unlikely that the police would spot such a thing.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Bad for you: letting that cop go for your wallet.
True, but not so much for the �they could plant something� reason, but what my lawyer seems to be saying is that short of you giving them permission to search for something like a wallet, the police are limited to a plain sight search and would not be allowed to search the box even if it looked like a stash box.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
@Sol & Wiz: nice sarcasm there, but seriously. I mean, of course compared to what fuel prices in the US used to be they are now relatively high. But IMHO they are still far to cheap to make people change their driving habits. When I was on holiday in the US last October, I didn't see any change to 1997, when I was there the last time. People don't even walk to shops around the corner or to anything that's further away than their own street!
With fuel prices like ours you think about whether you really need to drive to wherever you want to go!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Bad for you: letting that cop go for your wallet.
True, but not so much for the �they could plant something� reason, but what my lawyer seems to be saying is that short of you giving them permission to search for something like a wallet, the police are limited to a plain sight search and would not be allowed to search the box even if it looked like a stash box.
Hmmm...I'm "protected" by one of the most corrupt law enforcment agencies in the country. It clouds my perspective a bit.
For laughs, look up articles on Ken Jeanne- the sheriff of Broward County. ...and you thought our elections were bad.... Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
God Bless America. Grab a gun and join the militia, I'd say.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well that's what *I* plan to do, anyway! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Ironically, the purpose of a militia is to defend the country...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
... from the corrupt government.
At least, that's what the anti-American propaganda machine instructs me.
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