Three days ago gas costed $2.43 a gallon. Yesterday when I got gas it was $2.70...and to think I was pissed off then. Today I drove home to $3.30 a gallon. With gas stations having long lines or "No Gas" signs. Watching CNN when they're covering news other than Katrina, they show gas stations at $4-$5 a gallon.
quote:WASHINGTON � White House economic adviser Ben Bernanke (search) said on Thursday U.S. gasoline prices will likely rise further because of system disruptions following Hurricane Katrina, but will drop when supply lines return to normal.
"There is a supply problem; there's been a reduction in the amount of gasoline available. People still want to drive, so the price is going to go up," Bernanke, chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisers (search), said on C-SPAN television.
"I think the good news is that this is not likely to be a permanent situation as these refineries and these transportation networks are brought back on line," he said.
Gas prices should then return to levels seen earlier this year, Bernanke said. Gas prices were already high before the storm because of soaring global demand for oil, he said.
Meanwhile, oil prices have moved relatively little in the past week as a result of the hurricane, because the global supply and demand for oil was not much affected, Bernanke said.
"The amount of speculative activity is not that great and I'm fairly convinced that what's happening to prices is not much to do, or anything to do, with speculation. What it has to do with primarily is just the fundamental facts of supply and demand," he said in response to a viewer question.
Bernanke said there is not that much the United States can do about escalating global demand for energy except develop alternative sources of fuel.
"Higher oil prices, higher energy prices, make these alternatives economic," he said
Crude held near $69 on the New York Mercantile and gasoline rode high at over $100 a barrel on Thursday. U.S. crude was 14 cents lower at $68.80 a barrel, below the record $70.85 hit on Tuesday.
Gasoline futures on continued their relentless rise to a high of $2.465 a gallon.
The Strategic Petroleum Reserve, a 700-million-barrel stockpile set aside for emergency use, could be used to counter oil shortages caused by Hurricane Katrina's devastation of the Gulf oil industry, which accounts for about a quarter of US output. I definitely think this qualifies to tap those reserves to help bring gas down.
"I'll make a bold prediction ... in 12 months, you're going to see oil down to 35-40 US dollars a barrel," ... "It's a huge bubble, I don't know what's going to pop it but eventually it will pop - you cannot go against supply and demand, you cannot go against the fundamentals forever." - Steve Forbes
Typically I put in $10 of gas in a week which gets me about half a tank. Last year it got me 3/4th a tank. I drive a '04 Mitsubishi Lancer which gets about 26-30 miles a gallon. Needless to say, I like many people budget my money and having to dump more into my gas tank takes away from putting it elsewhere it's needed.
Bush supporters in DC blame it on consumers while Bush haters blame it on the current White House administration. I think of it a mix of both. I believe the White House should put more pressure on OPEC to produce more oil while funding alternative fuel sources. Most Japanese car manufacturers are making hybrid cars, the Toyota Prius gets like 60 miles to the gallon. Yet all GM seems to do, make a smaller Hummer that gets an extra mile or two per gallon.
I've often felt the oil companies have tried to insist that hybrid cars aren't worth it, yet while Shell or Texaco is making record profits it's also driving the demand for hybrids.
On the other hand, so many Americans own huge SUVs that guzzle gas like crazy. So apparently people demand lower prices but drive Hummers that get 4 miles to the gallon.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Apparently it's not a crude oil supply problem, rather a refining problem. As a result, releasing crude oil out of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve will not help much in the short run.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Well after making that first post I went up the road to the 76 gas station to fill up the rest of my tank which was just under half a tank. It cost me about $24. While panic refueling doesn't help the situation, plenty of people such as myself feel they don't have much option. My thought is, rather fill up now at $3.39 than wait until I actually need gas and it's $5 or more. The state governor is saying the prices should stablize in about two weeks once the oil supply is restored so hopefully my tank will last.
They also blame China and India as oil competition. Though I have to wonder why the US government doesn't put more pressure on OPEC to produce more oil to drive down the prices. Of course some would say our politicians receive funds from oil companies which report record profits. The more we pay, the more they make.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I think it's at this point that one of the Brits here (say, me) comes in with the obligatory "it's still fooking cheap like over there compared with what we pay."
But as an example, to fill up the tank on my 1.6 golf costs roughly �40. That's about $70. I drive 20 miles to work everyday. Really, not sending me money would be so heartless and cruel that I cannot conceive of how evil you would have to be not to do it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
This is why Florida passed anti-gouging laws.
Fuckers owning gas stations along the path of the refugees from New Orleans are charging them $6.00!
I recall after hurricane Andrew destroyed most of west miami and Homestead, a mob of ten people beat a gouger into the intensive care ward after the guy had drove into the state in an ice truck- to charge $10 per bag of ice to the victims.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
Bar stewards! The BBC were saying that the US didn't have a emergency store of Petrol/Gas, and that we would be sending over some of the european stocks.
What is it with Americans and SUV's? More pollution, cost of gas (Emergencies like this not withstanding, the average price is rising as it's running out) less safty features (Truck standards not car standards), longer stopping distance, greater chance of rollover, greater chance of killing third party in collision (child head hight= bumper/fender hight) Unfortunatly the number of hybrids is due to lack of customer interest. The batteries etc reduce practical space, so people go for standard cars. The industry is in crisis, they can't sell normal cars at a profit, let alone taking a 'risk' with something consumers don't seem that interested in, and without investment, the technology will not mature enough for it to fit into standard shapes without affecting practicality. You'll notice it's the non american/european brands that are bringing out hybrids, i.e the one's making money?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Petrol is up here too... What I can't stand is how on one side of town it's one price and on the other side it is 20c different!!
A few months ago it was 80c/L then 100c/L and now it's hovering between 115-125c/L.
Rediculous.
For non-Australians (that's like all of you) convert from Australian dollars and if your backward country is still using the empirical system - convert to gallons.
Oh, and WHY call it "gas" when it's clearly a liquid. Liquid Petroleum aka petrol.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Because it's short for "gasoline". Liquid petroleum, on the other hand, is just redundant, and "petrol" could be short for any oil-based product. Not saying ours isn't silly, just that yours is no better.
Of course, once we switch to hydrogen, we actually WILL be putting gas in our cars...
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
You know its funny a while back when I was in grade school I was reading from my 40-year-old outdated science textbook and it said that within the next 50 years that a good portion of our non-replenishable resources would run out. But then its also goes that by that time we should be living like the Jetsons. Funny how people fall on the "future" to solve major problems but then when the "future" comes shit happens.
Fuck where's my robot maid and hovercar.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Doing Baltar somewhere on Kobol.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I don't understand the love of SUVs either. You'd think sales would go down once gas prices began climbing. But people still buy them, then have the nerve to complain about prices.
Someone from the UK at another forum was telling me he pays about $7 per gallon. However he also said minimum wage is $8.75 an hour. While where I live minimum wage is $5.15 per hour and gas currently averages $3.20 a gallon. You pay more per gallon, but you also make a lot more per hour as well.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I've never asked - BUT - are your "SUVs" the same as what we call "4-wheel drives" - usually used to drive out-back or along beaches or through flooded creeks in the rainforest... but generally used by mothers to pick their children up from school?
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
Er, in Britain they're commonly known as off-roaders, there are many 4-wheel drive cars that aren't deserving of being lumped in with the off-roader/SUV category, but yeah Chelsea-Tractors is what they are, designed for the ultimate off-road trip to pick up the kids from school or get some shopping at Sainsbury's.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Most places here seem to be between 90-99p per litre, although it's now above a pound (Au$2.40/US$1.84) in some places.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
Just looked on autotrader (2nd hand car site& magazine), a 2000 Toyota hybrid is about �6000, which is about the same as a 1998 BMW 3 series with more mileage. (I would have chosed a ford as a comparrison, but the US gets different Fords. for instance, the US is still selling the old Focus, where as we have had the new for over a year). And, like many things these days you can hack it: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/08/13/state/n091301D38.DTL Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:and if your backward country is still using the empirical system
High time to switch to the new wishful thinking standard.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
That reminds me, Tricky... Any ozzies on here willing to do some legwork (real or virtual) and see if they can hunt down a used '05 Ford Falcon (which we don't get over here in the States -- we're stuck with the *expletives deleted* Taurus)? Or at least give me a notion of price ranges?
GM is doing a pilot program in the Washington, D.C., area with hydrogen cars and fuelling stations, but nothing major yet. I also recommend a good skim through web sites like this one, this one, and this one.
All I know is I want all my vehicles either have hydrogen turbines under the hood, or else have the existing ICE modified to accept something replenishable (or at least a mix), like biodiesel or some kind of ethanol-methane miasma...
--Jonah
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
That's the problem with alternative fuels, there's a huge infrastructure change needed, and knowone whats to be backing the betamax of the bunch. Although there are a lot of LPG stations in the UK...
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by tricky: ...but the US gets different Fords. for instance, the US is still selling the old Focus, where as we have had the new for over a year...
Keep in mind that we didn't even get the Focus in the first place until it had been out for a few years in the UK. And that NA gets the crappy Ford car range.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
Yeah, but this wasn't introducing a whole new model, this was choosing to continue making the old model for the US rather than just make the new model for all markets. Ford europe made an automotive first this year by cancelling production on the Ford Puma whilst it still had a waiting list. First time any manufacure has done that.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Damn. The Puma is a nice car.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...are your "SUVs" the same as what we call "4-wheel drives" - usually used to drive out-back or along beaches or through flooded creeks in the rainforest... but generally used by mothers to pick their children up from school?"
No. SUVs are cars that only look like they can do those things but really have the off-road capability of a freight train, 4-wheel drives are cars that are actually capable of them.
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
quote:Originally posted by tricky: Unfortunatly the number of hybrids is due to lack of customer interest. The batteries etc reduce practical space, so people go for standard cars. The industry is in crisis, they can't sell normal cars at a profit, let alone taking a 'risk' with something consumers don't seem that interested in, and without investment, the technology will not mature enough for it to fit into standard shapes without affecting practicality. You'll notice it's the non american/european brands that are bringing out hybrids, i.e the one's making money?
What do you mean no consumer interest? There's been long wait lists for hybrids for at least the past year or so, when gas prices first started rising. Maybe it's just California, but Priuses here have become real common these days.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
dirty hippies
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Damn. The Puma is a nice car.
No it isn't, at least not here - it's a fucking Fiesta with fancier bodywork.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
And the Austin Martin DB7 was a Jag XJS with fancier body work and bigger engine. The Jag X type is a Ford mondaeo, the Range Rover Sport isn't a Range Rover, it's a Discovery 3 etc. etc. etc. (although I userd to own a Capri 2.8, which is basically a ford cortina)
I would still say hybrids are still considered a niche product, and not something the average joe public has on his list. More people are aware of them, but the P150 truck was until a month ago the top selling car in the US. Here we go more for smaller cars, but I don't think the primus is outselling the Ford fiesa or focus. I also find it anoying that they don't make the hybrids plugin (I.e. allowing you to use the mains to rechange them, not just the petrol engine) as the manufactures don't want customers to think they need recharging, as that would be a negative in consumers minds.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
At least until the gas prices started going up, there wasn't any real incentive for buying a hybrid or any other alternative fuel vehicle. There are tax breaks, but they are a lot more expensive than a traditional gas-powered vehicle. Because of that, you wouldn't save any money over the life of the vehicle. With the severe rise in gas prices, I think that people are starting to realize that the gas-powered vehicles no longer command a financial advantage. Unfortunately, it will take a while for the car manufacturers to catch up and offer a significant number of the alternative fuel vehicles.
@tricky's signature: What, Pratchett has never heard of "The Evil Dead" or "The Evil Dead 2"?
B.J.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Well Japanese car companies have been developing hybrids for a while. It's American companies have ignored development, since there's more money in oil.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
And european, although Morgan has a hybrid sports car under development, BMW and Merc have only recently announced hybrid plans, and that in collabouration with others.
I wonder if TP still haunts the fan bbs, we could ask him...
P.S. Only on flare could I mention I owned a Capri and no-one blinks!
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
If you can afford to drive a BMW or Mercedes you could probably afford expensive gas. Unless you were stupid and took out a loan/lease you could barely pay for.
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peregrinus: That reminds me, Tricky... Any ozzies on here willing to do some legwork (real or virtual) and see if they can hunt down a used '05 Ford Falcon (which we don't get over here in the States -- we're stuck with the *expletives deleted* Taurus)? Or at least give me a notion of price ranges?
GM is doing a pilot program in the Washington, D.C., area with hydrogen cars and fuelling stations, but nothing major yet. I also recommend a good skim through web sites like this one, this one, and this one.
All I know is I want all my vehicles either have hydrogen turbines under the hood, or else have the existing ICE modified to accept something replenishable (or at least a mix), like biodiesel or some kind of ethanol-methane miasma...
--Jonah
Mate - www.carpoint.com.au. Have fun, but be warned, you are buying a FORD so don't expect it to go for very long without dying in the arse
Fuel now $1.40 per litre. Time to go green.
In Yank speak, that's about $5.50 USD per gallon.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nothing wrong with the Capri, Bodie and Doyle drove one. Hell, my dad had a Pinto once! Bought it off a Yank when we were living in West Africa very cheaply, then found out why. I really liked it because it was sorta cool, had leather seats and aircon.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus:
All I know is I want all my vehicles either have hydrogen turbines under the hood, or else have the existing ICE modified to accept something replenishable (or at least a mix), like biodiesel or some kind of ethanol-methane miasma...
--Jonah
Why don't you just fart in a can?
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Who says he didn't?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I converted my car to run on crushed hopes and dreams. It has enough fuel for a good couple decades.
Seriously, though. I think I'll just hire about thirty or forty second graders to tow my car from place to place. They work for cheap, and all I got to do is feed 'em pure sugar to keep their energy levels up.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
quote:Alcohol made from sugar cane is becoming the fuel of choice in Brazil, and other countries - so much so that global sugar prices hit a seven-year high this week.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, that's what it's like to have a country that isn't run by the oil industry...
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Oil, sugar, hydrogen, it doesn't matter, us little guys will get screwed by whoever controls our energy supplies.
Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grokca: Are you sure that you want to go with sugar?
quote:Alcohol made from sugar cane is becoming the fuel of choice in Brazil, and other countries - so much so that global sugar prices hit a seven-year high this week.
"Is becoming" is largely incorrect. It has become a successful sort-of-replacement already, in the form of alcohol/gas mix, and it's been that way for 20 years or more. Now it's even more with those cars.
So, expect no less than Brazil's inner demand for alcohol to raise dramatically, now that it's been proven that it is a very viable alternative.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, when I lived there 20 years ago my parents had an alcohol-fuelled Chevrolet Mazda.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doctor Jonas:
quote:Originally posted by Grokca: Are you sure that you want to go with sugar?
quote:Alcohol made from sugar cane is becoming the fuel of choice in Brazil, and other countries - so much so that global sugar prices hit a seven-year high this week.
"Is becoming" is largely incorrect. It has become a successful sort-of-replacement already, in the form of alcohol/gas mix, and it's been that way for 20 years or more. Now it's even more with those cars.
So, expect no less than Brazil's inner demand for alcohol to raise dramatically, now that it's been proven that it is a very viable alternative.
And if you'd see how badly sugar plantations/refineries fuck the environment, you'd nix that notion right now.
But tha's mainly due to lax EPA oversight- I'm sure that Brazil would never destroy it's irreplacable wetlands for a short sighted solution that will come back to bite them in the ass.
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