A kitten really - no not like that - there were a couple of kittens that live(d) across the street. I ended up feeding them after the hurricane.
Anyhow, we were going to see Wallace and Gromit tonight and the little orange male ran behind the car. I of course didn't see him. He died right in front of us.
We had been trying to get his owner to realize that there are simply to many cars in our neighbor hood for outdoor cats - but I didn't expect to be the culprit.
Next moral question - do I steal the sister kitten and raise her safely inside?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
When I was younger, my dad ran over one of our cats. She was an outdoor cat, and she decided to nap one afternoon in the shadow of the back tire. He didn't see her there and didn't know he had even driven over anything at the time. It's a horrible feeling to know you've accidentally killed a pet.
Before you steal the sister kitten, can you ask that owner if you can adopt her from him or her? If you were still feeding them when the brother kitten died, maybe the owner would be happy to turn her over to you (especially if they were both outdoor cats to begin with). I don't know if stealing is such a good idea; if that little kitten decides to sit in the window, the neighbor will know you've got his or her cat.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I agree, stealing the kitten outright is probably not the best first option, but I also am of the opinion that there are very few communities in this country that are safe for outdoor cats these days, and it's inhumane to let cats out. Especially if they're kittens and inexperienced and unknowning of possible dangers.
Good luck, and try not to beat yourself up about it too much... if you didn't see him, there's nothing you could've done. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Call the Humane Society is the owner does not give you the kiten and you see it outdoors again.
They dont euthanise kittens or puppies- someone always adopts them, after all, and you'll bedoing it a favor.
Outdoor cats are prone to all kinds of disease and the owner has probably not made any investment in shots for the kitten(s) if he's got them living outdoors.
One of my kith (step-uncle?) killed my little cousin's cat on a cold winter morning in Gainsville- it was an "outdoor cat" and had climed into his car's motor for warmth...
Very Bad scene when he started up the car for work early the next morning. Turns out there is a service for pet disposal in gainsville and they showed up at 5am, cleaned up (most of) the mess and he just told my cousin the cat ran away or something.
That's my cat-related horror story for the day.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...it's inhumane to let cats out."
And how inhumane was it that we domesticated them?
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
quote:And how inhumane was it that we domesticated them?
When did we domesticate them, I thought they just mooched from us?
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Call the Humane Society is the owner does not give you the kiten and you see it outdoors again.
They dont euthanise kittens or puppies- someone always adopts them, after all, and you'll bedoing it a favor.
Outdoor cats are prone to all kinds of disease and the owner has probably not made any investment in shots for the kitten(s) if he's got them living outdoors.
One of my kith (step-uncle?) killed my little cousin's cat on a cold winter morning in Gainsville- it was an "outdoor cat" and had climed into his car's motor for warmth...
Very Bad scene when he started up the car for work early the next morning. Turns out there is a service for pet disposal in gainsville and they showed up at 5am, cleaned up (most of) the mess and he just told my cousin the cat ran away or something.
That's my cat-related horror story for the day.
i heard of a story about a cat that was inside a A/M32C-17 Air Conditioner some place on a det in the lower Middle east, evidently sitting inside of the big drive belts for the compressor. they started it up and heard thumps inside the metal skin as kitty parts hit all the insides...
still pretty bad (i know, i would have been heart broken if that occured to me, the accidental offing a pet...) Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: "...it's inhumane to let cats out."
And how inhumane was it that we domesticated them?
The simple fact is that today's cats may be equipped to survive outside, but there are so many dangers in Human-inhabited areas (cars, notably) that it's not fair to them, when they still rely on us to a certain extent for food and shelter. Hell, the domestic shorthair cat is descended directly from the Egyptian shorthair, and that's a very warm climate. Even with the fur, cats require warm temperatures. Therefore, domesticating cats isn't nearly as bad as semi-domesticating them and bringing them to a non-native climate.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I used to work part time for a sign painter off and on. He lived on a rural road where truckers typically eschewed the constraints of speed limits. I would do some work for him for a couple of weeks then wouldn't have any work for a couple months. Every time I came back there would be a "new" pet for his kids. The last having received an appropriate burial. I asked him why he didn't close the fence surrounding his acre lot.
He said: "Ah, its cruel to fence them in." and a few weeks later there would be another "new" pet.
I just don't get it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: "...it's inhumane to let cats out."
And how inhumane was it that we domesticated them?
The simple fact is that today's cats may be equipped to survive outside, but there are so many dangers in Human-inhabited areas (cars, notably) that it's not fair to them, when they still rely on us to a certain extent for food and shelter. Hell, the domestic shorthair cat is descended directly from the Egyptian shorthair, and that's a very warm climate. Even with the fur, cats require warm temperatures. Therefore, domesticating cats isn't nearly as bad as semi-domesticating them and bringing them to a non-native climate.
yeah- I see an old woman waking her Alaskan Huskey all the time.
Not much use for sled dogs down this way.
Cats are just as domesticated (fucked) as dogs- I've seen many cats petrified of anything outdoors.
Like cows, most of their species would die out without us.
[ October 08, 2005, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You don't see too many dogs with narcolepsy.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or cats that chew cud and drool.
Not yet anyway. (evil laughter)
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Dogs are more adaptable to cold climates on their own, whereas the species that domestic cats are descended from are strictly warm-climate creatures -- so dogs (and relatives, like wolves) are more at home in colder climates... assuming there's no human dangers otherwise. That's the key. I still hold by the original claim (and Toadkiller's opinion, I believe) that the main reason it's inhumane to let a pet outdoors is because there's the high risk of the pet being painfully killed or maimed by human activity.
Like in WizArtist's story, it's more inhumane to let them get flattened on the roadway because you're too busy to keep constant watch over the animals. If you let them out (without a leash), you've got to watch them like you watch kids: constantly.
As far as cats being afraid of the outdoors, that is purely a result of individual upbringing and early experiences. Our older cats are strays that we brought in when they were each a year or two old, and they still want to get out from time to time. (We let them, but only under direct supervision, and during the warm months.) The younger cats were adoped from a shelter at eight weeks old (and they'd been inside for a few weeks before that, too), and they rarely show an interest in going outdoors. We also had a fairly neurotic cat named Chessie, who died of kidney failure a few years ago (at nine years old); she was actually born indoors and never expressed an interest in going outdoors, ever. But that's simply because she was born inside and the outdoors was an unfamiliar environment.
As long as a family is able to continue supporting their pets, there's simply no reason against keeping them indoors and domesticating them further. It's more cruel to leave them in danger outside, because although cats are plenty capable of taking care of themselves in the wild (assuming they're raised in the wild and are taught the necessary skills by their mothers), the simple fact is that humanity has spread across the entire planet like a cancer, and the cities and suburbs are no place for them, and even rural areas, with the highways and hi-speed roads running through it, aren't that safe.
Or are you guys arguing that humanity should never have domesticated cats and dogs in the first place? If that's your argument, then I'll just stop now, because there's no point in arguing over something that happened nine thousand years ago.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I would not argue over potential mistakes that happened that long ago, but to further domesticate a species via inbreeding and selective breeding (usually to get some weak "miniature" version) is pretty fucking wrong.
Ever see a mini-Doberman? They're pathetic, tiny, have a host of serious inbred medical ailments and still have all the instincts and reactions of a large dog.
Not exactly the keys to a happy life.
Cats get the same treatment- a desired look is maintained by controlled inbreeding- sometimes at the loss of half an adverage litter because of defects (it's why Siamese cats are getting more rare, less inteligent and more expensive with each year).
It's survival of the least fit, while the stronger (uglier) mixed breeds end up in the incinerator.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Ahh, I never thought of that. And I do agree that "purebred" breeding of pets is silly and pointless and vain. But then, every single feline pet I've had contact with has been a common American shorthair, and an adopted stray at that. (Either directly brought in, or picked up from a shelter.)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I Australia - there is a BIG Feral Cat problem - outside cats that get out and then go bush. Especially if they aren't spayed/neutered.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Ahh, I never thought of that. And I do agree that "purebred" breeding of pets is silly and pointless and vain. But then, every single feline pet I've had contact with has been a common American shorthair, and an adopted stray at that. (Either directly brought in, or picked up from a shelter.)
We have a common Icelandic shorthair - that is a stray we picked up while we lived in Keflavik. Like many of the cats there she's black and white with a thick, but short, coat. They live feral there in small numbers, limited more by food than the weather I think.
By the way - the neighbor has been keeping the surviving kitten home, but she was out last night again. We'll see, we've decided if she turns up over here like before we'll see if they are willing to let us have her. We're moving soon anyhow.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I Australia - there is a BIG Feral Cat problem - outside cats that get out and then go bush. Especially if they aren't spayed/neutered.
What I mean is that desexed cats get out and go into the bush and become feral and eat native wildlife.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I Australia - there is a BIG Feral Cat problem - outside cats that get out and then go bush. Especially if they aren't spayed/neutered.
We're having the same problem....with anacondas. I shit you not. Anacondas let loose by their former owners are breeding in the wild and are eating native species- someone's siamese cat last week, a 6' aligator in the everglades the month prior.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I loved the story about the python a week or two ago that tried eating an alligator, ended up biting off more than it could chew swallow.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I can see that in some areas it might be more of a problem, but here in Fremont (a large but spread-out city on the east side of San Francisco Bay) my family has two cats, (both adopted from a shelter) who are allowed in and out of doors as they please. We've had one for nearly 6 years now, and the other about a year, and neither have had any significant problems in this lifestyle. They are fairly intelligent creatures and know not to get into situations they can't get out of. I couldn't imagine keeping them locked up inside. It goes very much against their nature.
-MMoM Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
It does not, that's a myth. In fact, one of the best and most cuddly/adaptable house cats nowadays is the Bengal, which is a cross between a normal domesticated cat and an Asian fecking Leopard cat. Also, good with children.
The "excercise"-card doesn't work either, I know plenty of overweight cats that get let out by their owners and don't lose weight at all by being outdoors, the only thing that helps them is diet change.
There are plenty of dangers to a cat nowadays, from leukemia to kidney failure to the cat cold, without having to add to it with cars, sadists and snakes. Yes, even Sweden has snake. We have only one kind but it is lethal to pets.
I let my cat out on the balcony when I'm there to supervise but I only get him outside when we go out to our countryside house.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Living in "the sticks" that I do, my cat is hardly ever inside during the warm months. She's perfectly content to stay outdoors. She's also very capable of defending herself against other cats or small animals of the same size. The road we live on is very low traffic, so we don't really have to worry about that. Back at our old house in a subdivision we had cats, and we also let them out, with no problems at all. Well, aside from complaints from neighbours about them mucking about in gardens, that is.
My cat has been fixed, yes. She's just about the healthiest cat I've ever seen; she's very slim but she eats like a pig. A friend of mine has a fixed indoor car and the thing is huge. Mind you he lives in the city so I definately wouldn't reccommend him letting her out.
I guess what I'm trying to get across here is that in cities and the like its not a good idea to let cats outside unattended. Seeing as how I come from a sparsely populated rural area I personally believe keeping cats indoors is a tad bit cruel, unless the circumstances require it. For instance, I definately wouldn't let a declawed cat outdoors on its own.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
And I wouldn't let the concept of "declawing" remain an unpunished practice, it's like cutting off a human finger at the last joint. The US has a way to go yet as to ethical pet-care legislation. Hell, even Australia has gotten further.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Not all of us in North America are from the US, you know.
And, just to be clear, I'm not saying I approve of the procedure of declawing a cat, just that my friend's cat has had the procedure done.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Of course, I just pounced at the subject. As I said, I blame outdated legislation and a hampered animal rights movement. And I agree with your sentiment; I sure wouldn't let a declawed cat out of the house.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Shortly after moving our family from Ontario, my dad spilled some antifreeze on the ground and our persian cat Billy got into it. I was five at the time, and he told me that he's simply run away. He finally got around to telling me when I was 20. Eesh.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: I loved the story about the python a week or two ago that tried eating an alligator, ended up biting off more than it could chew swallow.
Yeah, I've been all over that area where the snake...er...exploded.
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Not all of us in North America are from the US, you know.
And, just to be clear, I'm not saying I approve of the procedure of declawing a cat, just that my friend's cat has had the procedure done.
My grandma's cat is declawed in it's fore-paws, but still has it's rear set for traction (I guess, that's why, anyhow). Not like the gaint mutant needs them- it's a Hemmingway cat- six toes and 15 pounds without being fat. Fucking beast. Anyway, the point is, I can see de-clawwing a cat to save from it destroying everyything iwth it's claws. I thought of getting a cat, but between all the breakable models I have on display, and my tendency to split town for a few days with no notice (sometimes Vegas just calls), it would be a bad idea.
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