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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DT: [QB] See, I read a lot of defeatism here. Man does NOT need to identify with groups. You say this because it is all history has shown, but it does not make it true. I am sure that when man was hunched over, the International Committee of the Third International of Neanderthal Scientific Socialists was grunting about how we would one day walk erect! Nationalism is not an all powerful force. Look back through man's history. "Americans" have only existed for about 130 years. Where were the French before Charlemagne? The English before Charles the Conquerer? German nationalism existed, but only vaguely (and it was based on a COMMON language) until Bismarck formed a new country. Austrians have existed only since WWII. Ukranian is a new term. Yugoslavian was a powerful term for decades. Before that, Europeans generally identified themselves with a king, or their lord. Before that, they were subjects of the Roman Empire, although not Roman. NOTE ON RACISM: This is just general nationalism. Now, as to First's comment, identifying oneselves amongst the proletariat and the bourgeoisie is more accurate. What do I have in common with Bill Gates? What do I have in common with the young black man from the inner city? The latter you can answer more than the former. However, the goal of scientific socialism is to eventually eliminate classes. This will take time, much time, of course, but isn't it worth it? Imagine if people in the 1400s had not slowly pushed on the concept of how needless religion is? We would not be so close to the subjugation of religion? And what if no one had begun speaking out against slavery? Or feudalism? Or monarchies? Sure, we'll never have a socialist country in my life time, and classes will likely exist for centuries to come. But, if I can create a better life for others, than mine was worth it. Afterall, isn't that one of the main ideas behind revolutionary socialism? To help others? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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