Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The Blame Game

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I've made a list of the things various groups (people, my associates, the various media outlets) have tried to blame for the recent massacre in Colorado.

Guns
Neo-Nazism / Racism
Satanism / Marilyn Manson / the Goth subculture
Paramilitarism
Society, including the pickers-on
Bad parenting
Homosexuality (yeah, some talk-radio guy this morning said that he'd heard the two guys were gay, too)
Trenchcoats
The movie "The Basketball Diaries" (why not "Heathers?" Christian Slater blows up in that one..)
Clinton
"weird people."
the Internet
the widespread availability of easily manufacturable pipe bombs

Any I've missed?

Anyways, what people are consistently FAILING to do is place the blame squarely where it belongs: On the people who actually DID this.

None of the above things (okay, maybe Clinton) doth evil alone make. It takes a person, making a conscious decision (usually, several conscious decisions over a long period of time) to accomplish an act like this. The so-called "crime of passion," which takes place on the spur of the moment, is largely mythical. These people CHOSE to do what they did, noone and nothing MADE them do it. Another person, in the same circumstances, might have done nothing. In fact, I feel justified in saying that many have.

Blamers are looking in the wrong place. As sentient beings, you are ultimately responsible for your own actions, circumstances nonwithstanding. If no one's pointing a gun at your head, you have a CHOICE. (actually, you even have a choice then, you could die rather than compromise your principles, but I understand self preservation winning out in some cases.)

You have no one to blame but yourself.

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by The Excalibur (Member # 34) on :

I wonder what would have been done with them had they not killed themselves.

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Down for Upgrade

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

We blame because it is easier. *frowns* Human nature is inescapable, no matter how hard we try. One would rather point the finger at something, and say "Yes, that HAS to be the reason" than just go around without knowing it, or admitting that the reason is them.
Think about it. Wouldn't you much rather be able to look at the events in your life and say you knew why each thing happened? ... well, okay, that's a general and not everyone feels that way, but still. People, generally, NEED TO KNOW why things are the way they are. Therefore, even the inexplicable will try and be explained.
People hate admitting that it's their fault even more.
So basically, the point is that placing blame on something is easier, and that's why we do it.
Not necessarily a GOOD reason, but there you go.

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"Telling the truth was his death sentence" - Maria Theresa Tula

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I'd like to add something, but what I would add has already been touched on by Jubilee. First of Two, you are dead on right. We blame everyone but the damn killers. I'm sick and tired of "The Devil Made Me Do It" games that get played. I was picked on a lot in junior high school, but I never did anything worse than tie one of my tormentor's shoe laces to the table.

Now, there might be some proof that one of the parents suspected something, but we can't blame the parents entirely. The parents didn't kill those fifteen students.

This has kinda shaken me up a little, so I apologize if I sound irrational or overly angry. I'm going to lie down for a while.

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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker

Posted by Feste on :

As far as blaming goes, you left out Dr. Spock, television, and the evergreen standby clip of "Natural Born Killers." Any moment now Rev Falwell will weigh in with Tinky Winky.

The images on the tube are depressingly familiar: the hordes of global media descending on a bewildered populace - zoom lenses lovingly recording agony for consumer entertainment. (ABC News has bragged that its coverage of the tragedy rivaled the Monica ratings. Gad.)

Here come the bus loads of grief counselors solemnly intoning about "closure." Christ, who invented that word? On this Sunday's chat shows we can expect graying gasbags and their pompous two cents.

And we'll all feel just terrible and say something has to be done until the events begin to fade in a week or so. We'll remember when it happens again. And again. And again.

250 million firearms floating around the USA. Try putting that genie back into the bottle.

Sorry to ramble on like this. I feel sick.

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"'I'm afraid there's nowhere for you to sit,' I said coldly; 'the verandah is full of goats.'" --Saki "The Guests"

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Mt gf, who pays much closer attention to the news than I do, has recently informed me of another aspect to this.

THERE WERE WARNING SIGNS.

F***ING HUGE ONES!

These guys MADE a video for one of their classes in which they walked down the halls shooting athletes.

These kids had been ARRESTED and RELEASED after making terroristic threats. They were on PAROLE.

When will people learn that it's not in our best interests to coddle the dangerous?

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Oh, one more thing. The killers were mostly using Sawed-off shotguns; which are very, very illegal to make or possess.

Gee, that stopped 'em real good, didn't it?

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

...And if you really want sawed-off shotguns, they can be easily manufactured from common materials using information gleaned from your local public library. Let's burn 'em all down to the foundation, shall we?

--Baloo

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It's human nature to want to know things, and also human nature to think they're not very interesting when you find out.
--CECIL ADAMS

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

*works in a public library, and will likely shoot anybody who tries burning it down*

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Chimaera on :

I aggree with First of Two, actually blaming the criminal alone and making that person take responsibility for his/her actions seems to be becoming rather rare in today's society.

However, there is an important reason why that long list (and many other things) are blamed for these tradegies, and that is overall they do have an effect. Not everyone is an objective and rational citizen, many people can be quite significantly effected by what they see on television, in the movies, in propaganda from radical groups and so on. Sadly, people many times fail to think for themselves. This is partly what got Hitler elected to power, and what continues to fuel membership in various radical groups like the neonazis.

A significant portion of American culture is, unfortunately, centered on violence, war, death and so on. After a time, I believe that some people do begin to reflect the attitudes and images they see around them, and often turn more violent.

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"Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you."
-Commander Riker, USS Enterprise

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Well, according to this news story, you'll soon be able to take The Basketball Diaries off the list, as it may become unavailable for viewing.

From the IMDb

MGM, which grandly announced on Wednesday that it was "recalling" all videos of The Basketball Diaries following the Colorado shootings (a character played by Leonardo DiCaprio shoots up a high school in a dream sequence), was left with egg on its face Thursday when it learned that it will not own the PolyGram title until next July. Meanwhile, today's Hollywood Reporter points out that some people in the industry are "not pleased" with MGM's recall, citing First Amendment and "creative integrity" principles.

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"It was sweet, like lead paint's sweet, but the aftereffects left me paralyzed."
--
They Might Be Giants

[This message was edited by Sol System on April 24, 1999.]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

You can't buy A Clockwork Orange in this country. Hmm.

Weren't they using more than one type of gun?
And what IS a sawn-off shotgun exactly? Is it what it sounds like?

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'Those are the headlines. Happy now?'
-Chris Morris.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

A sawed-off shotgun is when you take a regular shotgun and saw off the ends of the barrels, which I believe gives you a closer spread of shot tighter in (though I could be wrong about that).

It's a very illegal thing to do. But since people who intend to commit murder don't quibble with small violations like that, it gets done.

Re: Propaganda: Well, I must be a better person than most, since I'm surrounded by the same culture, have watched all sorts of violent movies, live with multiple guns, use the internet frequently, watch TV, and don't practice religion, and yet somehow I find the ability to curb my naturally violent tendencies into something, if not constructive, then at least far less destructive than these other people. And I think for myself.

*suddenly feels smugly superior*
*does the old SNL Dana Carvey Church Lady's "Superior Dance."*

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Legally, a sawed-off shotgun is a shotgun with barrels less than the minimum legal length. I think the minimum is about 20 inches (~50 cm). To acquire one such shotgun, one must either have a special license (I think it's available only to law officials and the gun dealers who sell to them) or violate the law.

Shotgun barrels are not so indestructible that a hack saw can't shorten them an illegal amount. I don't know what the pressure is in a shotgun barrel, but I wouldn't recommend modifying any weapon without a complete knowledge of what you are doing. "Home-made" modifications to firearms can lead to malfunctions that can destroy the firearm and maim or kill the wielder, regardless of their intent or legality.

--Baloo

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That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

MORE:

Both shotguns used were illegally modified.

The so-called "pistol" they used was in actuality a Tech-9, a gun already made illegal under the "assault weapons" ban.

So much for the theory that making things illegal makes them prohibitively harder to get.
(of course, prohibition and the "drug war" already taught us that, if anybody was interested in listening)

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*I only SEEM Normal*