Flare Sci-Fi Forums: I challenge you to follow me!

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Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

I just found out one of our friends is homosexual and has a boyfriend. I am very happy for him.

I think more people should follow my example.

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Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

Being happy for him or finding out if our friends are homosexual and have a boyfriend? *L*

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Person One: "LOOK! Charles has changed his sig!"
Person Two: "Quick, call a doctor!"
the solareclipse network

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I'd have no problem at all, if I heard that a friend of mine would be homosexual.

BTW: Why are you 'Unregistered'??

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Okay, who put a "stop payment" on my reality check?

Posted by zilla on :

*sigh* A few years ago I wouldn't have had any problems with homosexuals... but having my mom totally screw up my life by deciding she was gay kind of hurts.

If I found out one of my friends were gay I have no idea how I'd react. I'd still love them, but geeesh it would be hard for me.

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ever wonder why abbreviation is such a long word?

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

Gay or straight is irrelevent. How pleasent they are to talk to is all that matters.

However, I don't agree with them parading around. I don't run around with a sign that says "Proud to Be Straight", because, frankly, no one would care. And I don't see why they should either.

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Josh: I think they're getting to know each other a bit too well, if you catch my drift.
Me: Oh, I agree. I think they're spending too much time together, that is of course, if you catch my drift.
Asher: I think he's *ucking her, and he's cheating on his wife, and he's risking his marriage, and if his wife finds out about it she'll leave him and take their son, and his life will be ruined. If you catch my drift...

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

... and while you're at it, don't parade around because you're Irish. Or Christian. Or thankful. or Your country won a war or two or ten. Or any other reason.

You tie up traffic. Get off the road.

*smirks*

I have some gay friends. I have some bisexual friends. I have some straight friends. Since I'm not at all directly affected by any of their sex lives, why should I care either way?

--on the other hand, if Pat Robertson or a similar being showed up at my non-straight friends' places and started harassing any of them, I'd beat him to death with a toilet plunger. But then, I don't like "those types" anyway.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited June 25, 1999).]

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

*deletes post due to being sick of the subject matter, as annual conference was last week*

Sorry, I meant to say that to the guy above you. Since I can't see the thread now I forgot who I was talking to.

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited June 26, 1999).]

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

*Liam and Lee look at each other and simultaneously say "Harry Enfield's Dutch Policemen sketch!"* 8)

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Did I say anything about, towards, or even concerning, zilla?

*checks first First post*
Urm.. nope.

What's your point?

But, since you brought it up...

I still don't get the Christian thing with homosexuality. SURE, the OT says stuff about it, but it also says don't eat such-and-such, (goodness, shrimp and lobster are an abomination!) and that you have to go out in the countryside to poop, and a lot of other things that don't really apply today. And then there's the stuff that the OT tells you that, as a true believer, you must KILL people for doing...

Now, the typical answer I hear to this is "yeah, but the coming of Jesus repealed all the dietary and such laws with the coming of Forgiveness."

Well, are we going to pick and choose which bits of the Old Law to cling to?

Did JC ever actually say ANYTHING about it? Remember, he was a guy who stopped folks who wanted to stone certain people to death. Oh, I know Paul said some stuff, but is Paul divine? And wasn't, perhaps, he also still clinging to the Old Law just a bit?

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

*claps for First of Two's sentiments* I am a Christian, but I am not against homosexuality. SO many people that I know in life are against it, and they always try to quote God as the reason why... I also go to a very... umm.... well, a very close minded church, and I've had MANY heated discussions there about homosexuality.... My theory on it though remains the same, no matter HOW many times I fight the fight: Homosexuality is not something for me to worry about... it does not affect me directly, and if it makes people happy, then so be it. Whether God thinks it's right or wrong is not for me to decide, and if one of my friends is homosexual and still has a great relationship in Christ, then who am I to try to change that person? The decision on whether it's right or wrong is not mine, nor will it ever be. It ultimately is God's decision, and until I neet him face to face and discuss it with him, I will never be one to preach his feelings on it...

But that's just me, and I'm sure there are a lot of people that disagree with what I've said *shrug* Who am I to argue? We're all entitled to our own opinions, right? But now you know my thoughts at least... I have quite a few friends that are homosexual or bisexual, and a lot of other friends that are heterosexual.. and in my opinion, each and every one of them stands the same chance as I do for getting into heaven. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it....

~LOA

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I hate men. I truly do. But it's okay... I'm not bitter.

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

I'm with LOA on this one. As a Christian, I leave the judging to God. Besides, I have to spend my time trying to prevent myself from sinning. I may be Christian, but I ain't perfect.

I also agree with First of Two. Although I don't understand his hatred of Christians, he raises a point. We can't take the parts of the Bible we like. It's not like that. The Bible is an all or nothing thing. Picking and choosing may make you feel all warm and fuzzy since you don't have a problem in sticking to the rules you support, but that isn't the point.

*Realizing that I am rambling*

Oh, well...yeah. So there.

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

and I totally screwed up MY family's life when _I_ came out of the closet, too.....

but I am not responsible for thier reactions to the way I was created. I was truthfull to them, and that was a large step for me ..... and if they don't wish to tolerate that, or recognize it as a good thing, or accept it, that's their problem. Not mine. And I don't think I should be punished for this, either.... I didn't choose. Likewise, I don't think other gay people that my mother meets should be punished just becuase her daughter totally ***ked up her life by coming out. Treat other's as you want to be treated, wether they be gay, straight, bi, or whatever... what does it matter who they sleep with?!

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Cherish your visions; cherish your ideas; cherish the music that stirs in your heart, the beauty that forms in your mind, the loveliness that drapes your purest thoughts, for if you remain true to them, your world will at last be built.

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

here we go again

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

Yes, let's not do this thing again, we covered it quite nicely a while back, didn't we? Keep it civil if you're gonna argue. *gets out a padlock* Don't make me use this.

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Person One: "LOOK! Charles has changed his sig!"
Person Two: "Quick, call a doctor!"
the solareclipse network

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

Let me be the first Christian here to promise not to tell anyone that they are immoral. I ask that the other Christians do the same. And in return, let's keep the Christian bashing to a minimum. The world's a tough enough place as it is, we don't need to bombard ourselves with ego-downers on the net, too.

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

How can you do that and fulfill the Great Commission?

BTW, if anyone comes in here and wonders what's going on, my lack of tact showed up again.
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I love Zilla's lips !

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited June 26, 1999).]

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Wait a minute--How does coming out of the closet screw up someone else's life? Okay, so some people can't accept it right away or it's another thing to worry about. All it means to me is that, say in Jubilee's example, you bring home a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend. How does that affect your family?

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"I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know."
--Picard to Data, "In Theory"

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Everyone of her family's friends who saw them together would have a negative opinion of not only her, but her family also.

At least, that's how it usually works.

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

*doesn't understand the negative opinion concept* People are people, and we're all put on this Earth to live, learn and LOVE.... whether it be two females, two males, or a male and female in a relationship, it all boils down to the same thing-- they are people and nothing can EVER change that. They laugh alike, they cry alike, and they FEEL alike... there are no differences, except in what sex they choose to spend their life with. People are people, and let's just live with that fact and accept it.....please....

~LOA

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I hate men. I truly do. But it's okay... I'm not bitter.

Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :

quote:
*sigh* A few years ago I wouldn't have had any problems with homosexuals... but having my mom totally screw up my life by deciding she was gay kind of hurts.
If I found out one of my friends were gay I have no idea how I'd react. I'd still love them, but geeesh it would be hard for me.

Umm..no one 'decides' to be gay or straight or bi, zilla. It's genetic, through and through, whether it be recessive or dominant genes.

I, personally, would love to follow your example RW, but our school is totally homophobic. I was planning to come out to a few of my close friends, but a few days after I started planning it, my friend Taylor said "Wouldn't that be weird if your best friend came to your reunion and it turned out they were gay?"

So anyways, I'm perfectly contecnt for the time being to keep my choice to not bury my natural being my and my family's business.

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"Just remember...you're the queen!"
Tom Paris to Janeway, "Bride of Chaotica"

Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :

And..

WHen a person 'comes out' it shouldn't affect any relationships, because the person is the SAME person that was your friend, brother, aunt, principal, etc.

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"Just remember...you're the queen!"
Tom Paris to Janeway, "Bride of Chaotica"

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Can we PLEASE stop saying that First of Two hates Christians? He doesn't.

*AIGGH! Third-personspeak!*

Listen, I'm perfectly aware that there are a whole lot of perfectly nice Christians out there. My grandmother was one. I know many others, and work with several.

I'm also aware that there are a lot of rotten ones, misguided ones, and ones that are simply wrong, and probably more of these than is generally assumed.
(First of Two's First Law: There is no cause so just that one cannot find fools following it)

Of course, the previous two statements apply to virtually every OTHER religious group out there, a fact which members of most of those groups find difficult to accept, especially since they're usually taught that only members of their particular sect are going to the Theme Park in the Sky.

As a general rule, I don't hate anybody any more than they hate anybody else.

So if you want to determine how I feel about you, check and see what your church of choice practices towards people it doesn't agre with. And ye shall reap as thee hath sown.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

OK! *sigh* The reason we're not going to agree on this is because our beliefs are different. I was trying to say something that would not make Zilla go into a tandrum when she got home, as she is out of town.

The Bottom line is we don't believe the same things.

About the effect of a relationship can have on people, not everyone in the world is as open-minded as you are.

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

*grins*
*LOL*

No, but they should be.

Actually, I'm not all that open minded. Ask my opinions on crime and punishment someday, you'll see. I can be as Draconian as the next guy.

Or don't, as I'm sure you-know-who doesn't want to have to keep locking threads all day.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Hm, all very civil people out here, great. I see no reason to go christian bashing or muslim bashing or anything, I don't think there's a god but that's my opinion, and it's just some points I disagree with SOME religious people, and this is one. Saying I'm a sinner and I will burn in hell for all eternity for not believing is, for example, another point. The only bad thing is, a few weeks ago some judge decided not to convict someone from a christian party who compared homosexuals to thieves, because he did so in a religious context. This means, if your religion says someone is wrong, you can insult them as much and as often as you want. Nice precedent, let's see what follows *feels knuckles itching* But on the other hand, I do live in a country where homosexual couples can "marry" (well, they call it "registered partnership" but it gives you almost all the rights married couples have)

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

First of Two, that's my mistake on that one, and I apologize. You raise an interesting point, though, about the various Churches. I don't go to Church. I've seen too many good people who were trying to serve God get pulled into the ideas of someone who said that they knew what God wanted. I'm of the belief that the only one who knows what God wants for me is me, and not even then, always.

The only time I go to church is when there's a food drive or fund raiser going. And then, since I have no church of my own, I go to the church where I know a lot of people. Other than that, I don't need anyone else telling me what God wants from me. I know already.

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Hm. That's nice.

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

How did I screw up my family's life? I dont' know. But I told them I was bi, and their response was "WHY did you to this to us?" *sighs*

I'm not going to argue about morals, or anything here. I just wish we could all be at least TOLERATED no matter what anyone believes to be right and wrong. I believe that God also said "Love thy neighbor".. it doesn't matter if that person, to you, is sinfull or not. They are still your neighbor and you have to be nice to them. That's it.

I'm not going to christian bash. As a matter of fact, i'm not going to say anything more at all. goodnight.

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

I want to be homophobic. I really do. The only gay person I've ever known well pretended to be bisexual and attracted to me because of the problems she was having with hey girlfriend. Those are sorted now and she's very happy, so I've been dropped like the proverbial live hand grenade and even held to blame for her feelings.

But I can't be. That is one lesson I've learnt. People find things to hate about people. I have plenty of OTHER more valid reasons to hate the rest of humanity without starting on who they choose to shag. So I'll just settle for hating her for being a two-faced bitch, which shouldn't offend anybody's politically-correct sensibilities. Besides, there are two gay members of these Forums who ARE my friends - or should I say I have two friends here who just happen to be gay?

So I don't have a problem with homosexuality, and neither should anyone else. But if you do, keep it to yourself. Don't come round here quoting convenient parts of the Old Testament (something which Christians usually choose to ignore in favour of the New one) and expect us to give you any sort of sympathy.

And as for the determinedly lower-case Zilla and Bryce - do you actually KNOW anything about sex at all? I'm guessing you've swallowed the whole "True Love Waits" baloney hook, line and sinker - or you're a pair of the most vile hypocrites ever to show their faces round here (this week). Please don't go damning others for the way they choose to do things you know nothing about.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

OUCH. And I thought _I_ was the venemous one.

It's true, they're KIDS. And as kids, they generally don't know a whole lot more than what they've been told, and we can't really rake them over the coals for that.

Really, _I_ held many of the same beliefs when I was sixteen. Honestly. But then life started knocking. Eventually, I realized that most of the things I'd been spoon-fed as a child were only a small part of the big picture, and what I saw left a vile taste in my mouth.

It's possible they haven't even read the whole Bible yet, so they aren't aware of all the really nasty behavior in it. I hadn't.

So, go after the beliefs, not the people. They can't help being young and impressionable.

"Do you know how disconcerting it is to be on a plane full of Happy Young Christians? To be the only one who CARES if the plane goes down? I'm going into the side of a mountain, they're going to a 'better place.' 'Kids, I think the wing's falling off!' 'Cum-by-ya...'" -- Dennis Miller

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :

I was once cornered by a guy who wanted to perform oral sex to me. I wasn't even wearing a minishirt! I said no and walked away but the guy was following me around. The real kicker was that we had met in a bar and he knew I was straight because we were talking about Filipina bargirls and the associated actitivities concerning them.

So, no. I don't have a problem with gays, just gay Marines that want to **** ** ****.

Yeach.

Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :

This whole thing is confusing. The bible condradicts itself in several ways, or at least it does in the way we interpret it.

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"Just remember...you're the queen!"
Tom Paris to Janeway, "Bride of Chaotica"

Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :

Also, the book of Leviticus tell Christians to prohibit anyone with a handicap, bad vision, etc, etc, from being a Christian or attending services at a church.

I may be wrong, but doesn't this go against "Treat your neighbor as you want to be treated"? Is that even a part of the Bible?

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"Just remember...you're the queen!"
Tom Paris to Janeway, "Bride of Chaotica"

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

History point: Leviticus was not written with Christians in mind.

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Doctor: "Run along. I'll reattach any severed limbs. Just don't misplace them." (Voyager: "The Killing Game")

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Oh, really!

Then why haven't we taken it out of the Bible.

Someone here said we took out a lotta Gospels written by Thomas and stuff. Well, if we took those out why not Lev. too?

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Well, I can be happy for them. As long as they keep a respectable distance.

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Pure coincidence: I hear laws are about to be passed that will make it possible for gay couples to marry for real. Which I think is great. And adopt children. But I'm not too sure about the last. But that's probably the last bit of homophobic instinct left in me, so I should ignore it. Opinions?

BTW, what was in bryce's deleted post?

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Respectable distance?

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I chewed out First of Two instead of Jaresh Inyo (sp.)

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Bryce: I meant that the Laws were intended for the Jews and sort of made null later on for Christians. Therefore, they were not designed with Christians in mind.

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Doctor: "Run along. I'll reattach any severed limbs. Just don't misplace them." (Voyager: "The Killing Game")

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I just found a little factiod for you, Elim

Having not actually went thru Lev yet I found a commentary note that says Holiness is mentioned more often (152 times) in Lev. than in any other book in the Bible.

I will be going thru Lev. very soon and will get back to you.

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Okay...

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Doctor: "Run along. I'll reattach any severed limbs. Just don't misplace them." (Voyager: "The Killing Game")

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Leviticus 12:3 states that male children must be circumcised on the eighth day after birth. I was never circumcised, and I have no intention of being circumcised.

According to 1 Corinthians:

Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him.

I think the acid test for any behavior is if it is motivated out of respect for God, yourself and others, or whether it's objective is to establish control over another. You are responsible for submitting your own behavior to god's will, not subjugating others. It is the other person's responsibility to submit or not.

A Christian shows the way, as best they can. They don't lasso others and drag them along.

--Baloo

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"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
--Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Good one, Baloo.

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"I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know."
--Picard to Data, "In Theory"

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I'm not trying to 'lasso' anyone.

Elim: Lev. 1-7 talks about offerings
Chap. 8: Aaron and his sons
Chap 9-15: talk about priest rules and unclean things
Chap 16: Jewish atonement
17: Punishment for sacrificing wrongly
18: Sexual relations
19&20 are commands and more punishment
21-27: More about priest rules, offerings, the sabbath, rewards for obedience, and more warnings of punishment.

Really, chapter 18 would be the only thing the church would pay attention to because all the rest pretains to the Jews of that day.

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I love Zilla's lips ! ;)

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Just an aside:

I only quite recently shifted my paradigm to my present view on this subject. Emotionally, I am still not fully comfortable with it. I do, however, have faith that my reasoning is sound and that I did not use spurious logic

--Baloo

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"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
--Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

I got chewed out? About what? *Sharpens teeth for retaliatory chewing*

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

You must have seen it. Don't worry.

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"You gotta change your signature" -Zilla

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

No, unfortunately I was in an accident and couldn't get to a computer until today. I didn't see it, and would appreciate greatly if someone would explain to me what went on. Thank you.

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

What happened was....you said something about what zilla said and knowing her I thought she would go off on you. Unfortunately, I thought you were First of Two and I got him upset, to say the least. This happened cause we can't see the thread anymore at the bottom. I guess I was the first casuality of that problem

Anyway after letting the rat outta the cage I changed the post and explained myself a bit (i think i can't see it now, ugh!) but it was too late. I hope this will be my last post on the matter, if there is anything else I can do, email me.

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"You gotta change your signature" -Zilla

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

Old testament......... Two words of incredible importance right now. And Leviticus is OLD OLD testament..... I mean come on.. *thinks from memory..Genisis, Exodus, Duteronomy, Leviticus, Numbers (sp? on all these)* ... I mean, it's like the 4th or 5th book of the Bible..... OLD testatment.

RW:... Gay couples adopting has been passed by the Government ... we are still fighting for same-sex marriage here, though, and it doesn't look like we'll get it anytime soon. *chuckles* .. I did an entire 14 page paper on this if you want more info.

Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :

I want my foreskin back.

But other than that, this whole thing hinges around intolerance. *adjusts soapbox*. I have many different religious views. I have researched ones that interests me and learned of others on tangents. I know the differences between some and I also know the simularities. I think there is a God/Goddess and I know I understand this being on a personal level and it is percieved by me differently than it is percieved by the masses. Here is life in this corner of the Universe, all animals and plants living together, each biosystem needed, except for us. Rid the planet of insects and the whole thing collaspes. We depend on this system and we are a part of it. We take from it and we contribute to it. It is diverse, because diversity keeps the cycle of life moving along. It is perfect in its diversity on levels of order many may never hope to understand.
If you want to know the Mind of God/Goddess, know Your Mind. Our minds are individual, but on another level, they are connected and part of a greater entity. Like the cells in our brains, our minds, our consciencenesses, our very life force is mingled with all the others--we are a part of the Godness. Does the neuron question the violence of the white blood cell? Each is different. Each has a purpose to fulfill. The neuron may not be aware of this no more than the Heterosexual is aware of the Homosexual's purpose.
We have an incredible capacity to engage in stupidity. We chose to live blind lives. We wave a doctrine and teach Fear and Hate, and above all Intolerance, without question. If the purpose of Homosexuals is to suffer under the mindless and remorseful bigotry of the Heterosexual, then what is the lesson that we are supposed to learn? Are we getting it? If the lesson is: Embrace all Life as Valuable, Learn of Things beyond Yourself, and Learn Tolerance and Respect, then no, we are not getting the lesson, and we may find ourselves held back a grade.
Intolerance is a weed sprung up from the seed of Misundertanding. People chose NOT TO UNDERSTAND. We have a choice to learn about something different, or we have a choice to fear and attempt to destroy that which we do not understand. The later choice is instinctual I believe, for such actions are useful to spread the genetic make-up of the intolerant group. Anton LaVey spoke that humans are animals and should accept this and partake in animalistic pleasures. Other, more venerated men have advocated that Wo/Man is higher than the animals because of our Will. It is instinctual and animalistic to accept fear and intolerance, and a step closer to understanding this wonderous world by exercising Will and learning about a people that differ.
If you do not like Homosexuals, ask yourself why. If you know nothing about Homosexuals and still dislike them, I hope the answer you find bothers you. It should.
Yes it is unique that two men or two women can love one another as strongly as a man and a woman can. But is it any reason to hate them because thay can give Love where you cannot? Is there is any hurt in them Loving each other? We have on the scale the Gift of Hate and Destruction and the Gift of Love and Peace. Why intolerate them? Because of a Doctrine. It may be the Word Of God, but God also Wrote into exsistance the ability of a self awared life form. The Word of God exists as your Mind as well. Perhaps even your Heart, if you so choice that term better. So which Word Of God is more better? The Collection of Ancient Thoughts, or the Collections of New Thoughts?

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I was right in the middle of a f*cking reptile zoo. And somebody was giving booze to these goddam things."
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

That is very impressive, and I agree, for the most part.

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"Breath...keep breathing. I can't do this alone"
--
Radiohead

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

What does this say, I'm blind?

I'm keeping my mouth shut.

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"You gotta change your signature" -Zilla

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited June 29, 1999).]

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but after reading Cargile's post I just had to say something. Cargile, your post is one of the most logical and intelligent posts I've had the pleasure of reading on these forums. I agree with you 100 percent.

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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Cargile: Yeah, I'll buy that. Or at least, I can't think of a criticism.

Bryce:
Is some very deep caverns, there are fishes that have adapted to live in total darkness. Some have no eyes, and are completely blind. But it's not the fish's fault, it's the darkness's. The fish was born there, and it's all the fish knows. I suppose if the fish were able to leave the cave, and exist in the upper reaches, that after a time it's descendants might too grow eyes that see.

What I'm saying is that religious beliefs, like fish eyes, are a matter of environment, and you do not necessarily hold them out of any inherent rightness or truth. Learning this fact is one of the first steps toward unbiased thinking.

Rare indeed are we who discover these things and put them to use.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I meant I'm not going to comment on that.

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Fo2: Hmyes, but I wouldn't have said it..

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

You wouldn't have said it.. that way?
Hey, that's what I'm here for.

Incidentally, harking back to a question asked about "If we (church folks) left out the Gospel of Thomas and all that stuff, why didn't we leave out Leviticus?"

The answer is simple: because Leviticus said what the Powers that Were wanted their Bible to say, and those other Gospels didn't. And much like the Soviet Union in the 1950-70's did with their history, the Nicean and other councils that were responsible for codifying the Bible out of the hundreds of scattered documents and conflicting viewpoints kept what they liked, and the rest went "into the fire" so to speak.

Anybody who held that any of the conflicting viewpoints was the "REAL" truth, rather than what the Leaders said was truth (ex. The Gnostics, the Nestorians, and dozens of other groups), were given the convenient epithet "heretic" and annihilated.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited June 29, 1999).]

Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :

If I have anything to say to anyone directly I'll mention them by name. Since I mentioned no names I was refering people in general.

I can't say if you are blind or not Bryce. Only you can.

Bryce, if you want to comment, please do. Voicing differing points of view leads to understanding. I cannot hate you for the experiences you have had, the way you have percieved them, or the way you think. I cannot hate you for being Bryce. I can only respect you.

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I was right in the middle of a f*cking reptile zoo. And somebody was giving booze to these goddam things."
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

[This message has been edited by Cargile (edited June 30, 1999).]

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

Wow..... that was absolutely.... wow. ... *claps for Cargile*

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Sex is sacred. Your body is a temple. Anyone need sanctifying? ;)