Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Baloo defends creationism...

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Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

<Tirade>If you don't believe in creationism you will all go to hell and burn forever, you stupid, evil Satan-worshipper. Your opinions on the matter mean nothing. Every logical argument you can mount in defense of your position is, by its very definition, false.</Tirade>

The above debate style seems to be used by both sides of the debate. Just once I would love to see the topic of creation/evolution discussed by people earnestly trying to understand each others' opinions and beliefs on this subject. Instead, I generally see a lot of people calling each other poopy-heads. Yes, it does seem that childish.

If we can, could we have a discussion of the subject above with each and every person stating what he believes and why without having to note that the person who posted that message right above his must have a tenuous grasp of reality (if any) or is, possibly, just plain stupid? I really would like to hear everyone's opinions on this and other subjects.

Perhaps we need a civil discourse forum to counter the flameboard. Then perhaps we won't feel obligated to find the hornet's nest and stir things up?

--Baloo

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Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

I'll be shutting this compy down in a few minutes, and going home. I look forward to seeing what happens. I'll be back on Monday. I hope this works, and things stay civil.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

By both sides, you mean everyone else AND me (considering that it looks like it's me against the world)? I wasn't aware I was acting that way. I don't think I'm getting angry at anyone. I'm just presenting logical arguments, defending those arguments, and attempting to disproove my opponents arguments. If anyone has an example of me behaving irrationally, please point out to me the error of my ways. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm serious. Tell me.

Posted by JEM on :

Omega, no you are certainly not acting in the way Baloo states neither, so-far, is anyone else. I guess he was just pointing out the way in which these debates tend to go. Believe me I've seen these things degenerate quite quickly into just this sort of irrational name-calling and threats.

You do appear to be a minority in as far as your beliefs go and I for one, although do not share them, certainly admire you in sticking up for them and being prepared to argue in a calm and logical manner which you are, especially when its comparatively easy for your opponents to try to ridicule your position rather than argue against them.

I don't think you are a nut, madman or a religious maniac bent on putting science back to the 15th century. However, unfortunately, you are sometimes likely to be viewed in this way especially when you consider the 'arguements' put forward by others. One post I do remember seeing on a usenet group was something like "science says that you can't create matter but when a mother gives birth to a baby she is doing just that so science must be wrong" With people like that on your side, you really don't need any opponents!

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Cogito Ergo Sum (I think, therefore I am not a politician) - Rene Descartes

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

???

"science says that you can't create matter but when a mother gives birth to a baby she is doing just that so science must be wrong."

More proof that God has a whacked sense of humor.

--Baloo

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I don't think he's nuts. I just think he's made the wrong conclusions.

I've known nuts. I've argued with nuts. I've been physically attacked by nuts. You aren't nuts.

Just wrong. No big deal, we're all wrong once in a while.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Right back at you, First.

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Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Ya know everything I believe, I believe because it is there on the page. Religion (Any religion!) causes and forces man to seem irrational to those who do not share the same beliefs. It is a small test of our particular, personal faiths.

I didn't believe in Creation until I encountered a struggling young man who couldn't come to Christ until someone told him how to reconcile Creation. I told him, "Well...you think Christ could die and rise again?" He said yes. I said, "Well, what makes you think God couldn't create the world and everything else in a week?"

I didn't even really believe what I told him, but as I watched that kid be born again I decided I had to accept the entire Bible, not just the parts I thought were possible!

It's one's responsiblity to make sure we don't have something clogging up our ears. We must be individuals, decide what is right, and take our chance.

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Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Well, if it's not hard to believe that God created the world in a week, then why is it hard to believe that trillions of years is merely a week to God? Whatever the Bible says, humans had to write it, and humans are fallible. If you believe in Creationism simply because it's in the Bible, then who can say that the creation legends of Native Americans, Greeks, Chinese, and a bunch of others are not true?

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I don't get that bit about "not being able to come to christ until he could reconcile the Creation." I mean, you go on to say that the kid already believed in the Resurrection.. I'd have to say he was already most of the way there. That logic wouldn't work on somebody who didn't already buy into the idea at least a little.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

OK, the thing just deleted my entire message when I tried to send using the wrong password. Let's try this again.

God works in mysterious ways, eh, Bryce? : ) I was hoping you'd show up in here sometime. If you have evidence in favor of Creation that can be presented without religious connotation, then please join me in the C vs. E debate.

First:

The problem was within the young man himself. If you want to know why he needed an answer, you'd have to ask him. Unless, of course, he told Bryce...

Ziyal:

Another thing we believe is that the men who wrote the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. And as I'm showingin C vs. E, Earth can't be any more than a couple dozen millenia old. And some of their legends don't explain where Earth came from. It's just there. The Norse believed that a bull licked a hole in a block of salt, and three gods were inside, or something like that. The Inuit believe that woman cut a hole in the ice and pulled all the animals out (well, except Amoraq, the wolf; that came later).

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Which is equivalent to the Bible's not explaining where the "Waters" came from that God walked upon before he created the Universe. (Genesis 1) "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Perhaps they're the same waters that Raven dug the Earth up out of. Or the Maori gods pulled up fish from to make New Zealand.

But more likely, they're ALL just myths.

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"When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

That was Gen. 1:2. Gen. 1:1 says "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth". Earth already existed.