Flare Sci-Fi Forums: My thoughts

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Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

I suppose I'm at an age when things start to come together and I begin to find out who and what I am. For a long while, especially in high school, I'd engage in discussions about religion, creation, evolution, etc. And though I reaffirmed my verbal opponents that I still indeed believed in God, I felt to myself that I didn't. After being made fun of because of my belief in evolution, I felt that I could no longer trust anyone who called themselves "Christian." With that in mind, I went on the offensive and prepared myself to attack those who didn't believe in evolution. What eventually came out of that was a believe that evolution and creation were the same thing, despite feelings that I didn't believe that God existed.

But lately, especially over the summer and fall, I realized something. A book by the name of "Earthborn" by Orson Scott Card helped me realize that something. God does indeed exist. The shame you feel when you do something wrong, the pride you feel when you do something for the good of others over yourself... I believe that is God. Quiet as though his/her voice is, its still there. We all make a conscious choice whether or not to follow God, to be a part of something larger than ourselves. I don't think God intervenes with sudden events, but rather subtlely, in our hearts.

I still don't like religion, though. God doesn't want you to live in fear of him/her, but wants instead for you to choose him, to accept him/her freely. Is it enough to follow God without going through ritual and dogma? I don't know. My father was born a Catholic, and married my mother, a Methodist...for the longest time he didn't go to a Catholic church but rather with my mother. Lately though, after his father died, he's been going to church much more often. He asks if I will go with him, but I never felt right in Catholic churches.

All religions claim theirs is the only true one...I don't know which one to believe, so I'll choose God on my own, and find out later.

Don't know where this would belong, but its been a long time getting this out and I don't know how anyone will react to it...

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"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl."
Bill Peterson, Football Coach

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Er...so what is the difference between "God" and "internal thought processes"?

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

*claps*

Sol: You are louder than God is.

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What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.
-paraphrased, author unknown-

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Good point, Sol... I don't know. Because God is always there as I feel it, I can't tell which is my own thoughts acting from my own conclusions or some force inputting subtle hints...But I do know God won't force me to do something I don't want to do. He/she suggests, but ultimately I choose.

Tell me though, how does one separate from something it is an integral part? Is the cell aware of the organism it makes up? Can it separate from this organism and still survive?

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"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
Woody Allen

[This message has been edited by Jeff Raven (edited February 04, 2000).]

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

Nicely put, Jeff. Nicely put indeed. That's pretty much how I feel myself, right down to the dislike of Churches.

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"I promise you, Wilma, that not one man on this force will rest until the criminal scum that did this are behind bars. Now let's go get a bite to eat." - Frank Drebbin, Detective Lieutenant in Police Squad

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Another question is if you can separate God from yourself. Some Theologians (not I) would argue God is the one that does most of our talking to ourselves and it is just a matter of whether we recognize Him.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

(If _I_ said that I heard a voice in the back of my head telling me what I should do, they'd lock me up for being schizophrenic...)

Basically, what you're saying is that God is indistinguishable from your own conscience, and your knowledge of when you transgress your personal boundaries of right and wrong.

And the apparent fact that there are people who evidentally hear no such voice (sociopaths and such), means...

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

First, its not a matter of something telling me what I should do, but rather what I have already done is good or bad.

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"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
Woody Allen

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I know that. The parenthetical part was a joke, it's what comes after that that is my point.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Depends how you want to define "God". An individual being? An embodiment of a collective human spirituality? Or simply the name on the box we lump everything that is noble, honest and good into?

I dont know which. I do strongly suspect there's someone "up there", and I don't mean aliens. If it's not too much of a Kirkism, maybe WE are God?

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"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"
- Faithless / Reverence

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

Oh, great.... *already knows QUITE a few teenage boys that are convinced that in reality, THEY are God* Oy.... men......

~LOA

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"Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again....." ~Simon & Garfunkle, The Sound of Silence

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

*sits on LOA for being silly*

I was being metaphysical, not egotistical.

And I don't like the term "man-hater". What I ever do to you?

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"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"
- Faithless / Reverence

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

It's not you personally... it's just what your kind in general have done to me... *L*

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"Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again....." ~Simon & Garfunkle, The Sound of Silence

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Are you therefore suggesting that God as such is a creation of the group conscience of humanity, whose form is interprited by local and regional survival needs?

Kind in general? *L* Talk about mindlessly grouping people into the lowest common denominator.

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Samaritan: "A good hot curry will help heal your wounds. That is, unless your religion forbids it".

Man: (Eyes growing wide) "No religion forbids a good hot curry".

-From some movie.

[This message has been edited by Daryus Aden (edited February 06, 2000).]

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Daryus> Not necessarily. I believe that God is constant. He was, he is, and he will always will be. I can't prove my views correct, but they do feel right to me, at least. I do believe that they can hold up for others as well. Maybe that's why I decided to share them even among skeptics. Then again, maybe I'm looking for a another opinion too

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"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to acheive it through not dying."
Woody Allen