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Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Sorry, but this topic is pretty good for increasing the amount (if not the level

) of debate here:

Original intent of Second Amendment
(Column from the Straight Dope, opens in it's own window).

Read the column first, then let the debate begin (no points if you can't cite references to back your position).

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Here's a follow-up column from the same source:

Original intent of Second Amendment (cont'd) (opens in it's own window).

--Baloo

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Nothing needs to be added, and nothing can be said in disagreement without sounding foolish.

The esteemed Mr. Adams, already widely known for cutting through crap to get to the truth, is once again entirely correct, legally and historically, in his interpretation.

But, I wonder if it has occurred to anyone that 'arms' includes all manner of weapons, not simply firearms?

I'm going to have to start carrying one of my swords to work, maybe...

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Most the Founding Fathers were ahead-of-their-time Romantics. They wouldn't have liked today's firearms. They wanted protection, not a way to massacre people.

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"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory." -Paul
*First Timothy 3:16*

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Mr Adams hit it on the head, squarely and neatly.

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"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying."
Woody Allen

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

No comment.

What, did I just say something?

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

I've just read the second article. Amending the Second Amendment to reflect today's standards (just like they did to slavery) seems like a plausible idea. But the NRA and other groups won't ignore this easily, they'll probably put up a big fight before going down in flames. After all, it was their influence which scuttled previous attempts of gun-control.

I suppose that these guys don't want ANYTHING to touch the second amendment.......

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Because it's part of the Constitution, and we don't touch the Constitution.

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Frank's Home Page
"This song is dedicated to everyone in the audience tonight...WITH ONE EYE!" - John Linnell

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

No.

Just out of curiosity, how many ammendments ARE there anyway?

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

According to http://wwwsecure.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.table.html , there are twenty-seven. At least one, the eighteenth (prohibition) has been repealed.

--Baloo

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :

OK, but how do you approach the issue of gun control in a reasonable way when there's millions of people who just don't want to listen to reason. The only way to approach it is to make a religious war out of it. It is way too easy for younger people to get hold of guns. I've grudgingly come to accept that most of you across the pond won't relinquish your 'god given' right to be able to kill other people. However, I still maintain that gun ownership for under 21s should be tackled and made even more difficult (if indeed it even is difficult in the first place).

This is never going to be easy, and has to be approached in a serious way - not this "we're very anti-guns but if the NRA threaten to withdraw their campaign contributions, then we'll change our minds again".

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Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited February 21, 2000).]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Heh.

Yes, there are many people out there who don't want to listen to reason. For instance, the guy who breaks into your house to take your money and have his way with your daughter/spouse/border collie is not likely to succumb to a well-reasoned logical argument why he should not do so.

However, being suddenly confronted with a double-barrelled shotgun has a strong potential to make him reconsider his position on the subject.

There are also people out there who would like only too well to make you read, know, and think only what is in conjunction with their belief system. That you are armed is simply insurance that there can always be resistance to such people. (Much as there was a Resistance in France to the Nazi occupation -- and if you don't think there are Naziish people in the US... you've been asleep.)

Seriously. I don't know what it is with some of these people who just want to let everybody else run roughshod over them and not offer the slightest resistance...

By the way...

I heard through another of my reliable, fairly unbiased sources, that the gun homicide rate in the London metropolitan area has tripled since the gun ban.
Is there anyone who is in a position to confirm or deny such data with a factual response? (Not 'Oh, that's what we'd expect to hear from a gun-happy person' but actual NUMBERS?)

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi