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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
I hear Pat Buchanan is considering Dr. Laura Schlessinger as a potential running mate.

So we've got the potential for a Nazi-apologist xenophobe, and a homophobic censorship-maven in the running.

Sleep well...

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
 
I think this years race is pathetic enough as it is. Look at who we have to choose from: Gore (?) Bush(??) Buchannan (*Snicker*) Let's just do what we did with Reagan. Let an actor from, like, the 60's or 70's become president (I vote for the original "Shaft" or William Shatner or something)

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Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang
me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider
Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak
Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide



 


Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
No, this is who we should elect: David Hasselhoff. Why? A good portion of this world respects the work he has done in Baywatch.

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694 consecutive rejections by women since January 1993.



 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
What, pray tell, do you have against Bush? Just curious. I can't see anything horribly wrong with the guy.

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Bush... let's see.

Stupid. Check.

Ignorant. Check.

Convinced he's morally superior to everyone else. Check.

Morally superior to evryone else. Blank

------------------
"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com



 


Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
<hijack>
Hey, it's Tom! Tom, send me an email. Thanks.
</hijack>

------------------
June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"And as we all know, 454 Okudagrams equals an Okudapound." - Rick Sternbach
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
"Stupid. Check."

Example, please.

"Ignorant. Check."

Example, please.

"Convinced he's morally superior to everyone else. Check."

Example, please.

Surely you don't expect me to simply take your word for all that...

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
You can decide which checked category these go in...

..."[Rudy Giuliani] has certainly earned a reputation as a fantastic mayor because the results speak for themselves. I mean, New York's a safer place for him to be."
--The Edge With Paula Zahn

"The fact that he relies on facts--says things that are not factual--are going to undermine his campaign." --New York Times


"I've got a record, a record that is conservative and a record that is compassionated."
--NYT Debate Transcript

George W. Bush "has ended idiocy as we know it. His is an altogether new idiocy. A militant, proud, smarmy, arrogant, grating, sunburnt, craggy-faced, twangy-voiced idiocy that yammers and babbles and juts out its jaw and aspires to the level of platitudes...."
--Jerry Long, Philadelphia Inquirer, 6/11/00

Bush for President?!?! He and Dan Quayle apparently share the same brain. *LOL*

------------------
Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns

And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
 


Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :
 
how quickly we forget:

Gore Camp's Smear of Bush's Intellect Backfires
Thursday January 27, 2000; 10:47 AM


Reports of GOP frontrunner George W. Bush's intellectual inferiority have been more than greatly exaggerated, we now learn. In fact, the Gore campaign's attempts to Quayle-ize the Republican presidential contender, with ample assistance from its media cohorts, have been outright distortions.
On Wednesday Slate Magazine went public with former New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley's SAT score -- an underwhelming 485 points out of a possible 800 on the verbal section. His math score was unavailable.
But how can that be? The misled public has a right to wonder. So-called intellectual lightweight George W. managed to score 566 on the same test, nearly a hundred points higher than the onetime Rhodes Scholar whom Democrats considered one of the most thoughtful voices in the Senate.
No one doubts Bradley's brainpower. Yet despite Bush's Yale and Harvard credentials, the Gore campaign has had a field day portraying the Texas Governor as a dummy.
"I guess we know why he got those 'Gentleman's C's," sneered Gore campaign spokesman Chris Lehane last fall, after Gore-friendly Yalies leaked Bush's transcript and SAT scores to the press without bothering to get the candidate's permission.
Meanwhile, at Gore's grad school alma mater, Vanderbilt University, no one dares breathe a word about his grades -- or whether they had anything to do with Gore's decision to drop out of law school.
"I sat right next to Gore in class," says Vanderbilt law graduate Jack Thompson, who suspects Gore may have actually flunked out. University officials have stonewalled Thompson's repeated requests for the Gore grade info.
News that Bush's SAT performance was better than Bradley's now has mainstream reporters joining Thompson in the quest for Gore's academic secrets.
The New York Post is suddenly curious, reporting on Thursday, "Leading Democratic contender Al Gore, whose spokesman has taken jabs at Bush's grades, again refused to release even a transcript of his law school grades."

----------------------------------------
While visiting Monticello (Charlottesville, Virginia, 01/17/93) with Bill Clinton, Al and the party entered a room with life-sized busts up on the shelf. Al Gore asked the curator, �And who are these people?�

The curator responds, �This is George Washington on the left.�

While visiting Chicago after a Chicago Bulls victory, Al tried to break the ice with the local audience by praising �Michael Jackson.� Wrong Michael, genius.

And then there are the lies: (edited highlights taken from a longer list)

Gore has said that "human civilization is now the dominant cause of change in the global environment." Apparently Al has never heard of The Sun, volcanoes, the Earth�s molten core, etc.


Gore�s "strategic goal" is to "eliminate the internal combustion engine" by the year 2020. Still no word if there�s a solar-powered armored limo in his future.

Gore favored a government crackdown on the tiny trickle of electricity used by devices like television sets, whether they are on or not, because it results in a steady emission of carbon dioxide.
All his talk of greenhouse gases and global warming ignores the fact that 95% percent of all carbon dioxide produced annually comes from the evaporation of water from the oceans, decaying organic matter, and the respiration of human beings and animals.

In October 1997, Gore told television weathermen gathered at the White House that global warming could be eliminated if the over-population of Third World nations could be controlled. Is this Al�s Final Solution?

Gore attended an April 29, 1996 campaign fundraising event at the Hsi Lai Buddhist Temple in Hacienda Heights, California and then called it "a community outreach" program.
Three months earlier, his own staff had told him it was a fundraiser.

During his Democratic nomination speech, Gore told of his grief over the death of his sister caused by her having smoked cigarettes. (The �until I draw my last breath I will protect our children from the danger of smoking� speech.)
He neglected to mention that his family's fortune had been based on raising tobacco in Tennessee and that the family farm continued to do so for years after her death or that he continued to accept tobacco industry political action committee money through his re-election as Senator in l990. Speaking to tobacco farmers, 2/23/88, Al identified himself as one of them---���years after his sister died. When asked in the 1990�s about this hypocrisy, Al claimed that he was still grieving for his sister and didn�t know he was still receiving money from the tobacco industry.

Gore once told reporters that Eric Segal's novel, "Love Story", was based on the romance between himself and his wife Tipper.
Segal said this was nonsense.

Gore has claimed during a 1999 interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer (CNN�s �Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer,� 03/09/99) that "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
The preliminary discussions for the creation of the Internet took place in 1967 and, in 1969, the Defense Department commissioned the creation of the "Arpanet." Gore was 2l years old at the time and it would be eight more years before he was elected to the US House of Representatives.

Gore is on record declaring William Jefferson Clinton as one of the greatest Presidents of modern times.

Gore did serve briefly in Vietnam (5 months: most guys served a �tour of duty� lasting 12), but his assertion that he came under enemy fire is false. He served as a journalist behind the front lines and never saw combat.

While a journalist in Tennessee, Gore said that his reporting "put people in prison."
An examination of the record shows this did not occur and he admitted that he lied about this.

FEDS DUNK VEEP'S 'ICED TEA' DEFENSE IN FUNNY-$ SCANDAL
By VINCENT MORRIS and BRIAN BLOMQUIST
June 8, 2000

A new Justice Department document from the funny-money campaign-funding investigation says Al Gore's famous "iced-tea defense" is all wet.
Gore told the FBI he missed parts of a key fund-raising meeting because he drank lots of iced tea and had to take frequent potty breaks - but a federal prober said Gore's defense can't be true.
The Justice Department prosecutor wrote that former White House aide Harold Ickes, who ran the fund-raising meetings, always stopped them when President Clinton or Gore had to leave the room.
"Not only is there no evidence that this occurred, but the agents' notes reflect that Ickes told them that when he conducted meetings, he would halt the proceedings if the president or vice president stepped out of the room; the meeting would resume when they returned," the prosecutor wrote in a memo. �
-----------------------------------------------
No, George W. Bush isn�t a mental giant. Sadly, Steven Hawking isn�t running for elected office.

But I gotta ask, how fucking STUPID do you have to be to keep telling these easily disproved fibs?



 


Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
 
My thing against Bush is the same thing I have against Gore, Buchannan, and everyone else running in this horribly benign 2000 election. The only reason we voted in Clinton is because noone wanted Bush, Sr. The only reason he was re-elected is because we didn't want no impotent running our country. When are we gonna get a good president, one who will stand for our country, like Kennedy, FDR, Teddy, and Lincoln. Don't you think it's time to have a real president, a real leader?

------------------
Look at the past few years:
Jimmy Carter: Who we kidding, Valium Posterchild. We go to:
Ronald Reagan, Howdy Doody Sr. If it keeps getting benign, we might end up with:
Mr. Rogers, "Can you say Armageddon? Oops, too late." Or we can get macho and have:
Jack Nicholson vs. Clint Eastwood, Shortest debate in history, all Jack will have to say is "How can you debate me, you haven't opened your goddammed eyes in twenty years."
 


Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :
 
real leaders are few and far between.

Lamentably, we have to go with what we've got. Bush Sr. went from an astronomical approval rating after the Gulf War to down in the basement, largely because of an economy perceived to be failing (Al Gore's statement in the early 90's that this is the worst economy since World War Two.) We now know that the economy was picking up during the end of Bush's term, not enough to save him---but the current administration gladly took the credit.

We've had seven-plus years of Clinton-Gore leadership. Do we want another four? Al Gore's proposed programs read like a socialist wish list. This is the guy who wanted to "re-invent" government? This is the guy who wanted to make government smaller---and now is chomping at the bit to federalize the health care system? The Kyoto Accords will trash the economy his buddy has taken credit for reviving.

Bush is the best of a bad lot. What's the alternative? Buchanan? Nader? The Constitution requires candidates to be American citizens, and that implies that they should be from this planet.

I really wish we had a choice between heroes. It's not going to happen any time soon. Is there anyone on the horizon worth waiting for?
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Boy, even I hadn't heard of a few of those, Xentrick. Thanks.

Well, everything Jay posted would fall under a slip of the tongue, which has no relevance to his intelligence. Nor did Quayle's.

"Don't you think it's time to have a real president, a real leader?"

What makes you think that Bush doesn't fit that description. Even Lincoln said the wrong word at the wrong time on occasion. He was human, after all. And I can guarentee you that Bush is better educated than Lincoln was, so that can't be a factor.

"Is there anyone on the horizon worth waiting for?"

Do I count?

Here's my proposal for the first things I'll do when I'm president. 1: issue an executive order repealing all (with a few possible exceptions) previous executive orders by previous presidents. 2: end the state of national emergency that we'll have been under for 90 years by that time. 3: Create a large group of constitutional scholars and lawyers and have them go through the ENTIRE federal code, locating laws that are unconstitutional, whose authorization has expired and yet are still funded (Endangered Species Act, et al.), and ones that are just plain stupid. 4: take the digest created to the supreme court, having them declare all unconstitutional laws located as such. 5: go through congress to repeal all laws that are just plain stupid, but can't be thrown out by the supreme court.

I intend to get the list of federal laws down to around the size of a phonebook, instead of the twenty I'm sure it takes up now.

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
 
Commercial 1
---------------
Ben standing in a dark room smoking
Narrator: Hey, what's that you got there?
Ben: Joint.
Narrator: You do know that marijuana is illegal, right?
Ben: Uhhh... I didn't inhale?
Screen lettering: (background Music: poor 5th grade rendition of Hail to The Chief) Ben + Chris in 2012: This time, why not the Worst?

Commercial 2
----------------
Ben: (Subcaption: Getting Ready for the Big Debate) When I become President, All people will work for me!
Chris: (translation)We're backing funding to employ the jobless.
Ben: If anyone opposes me, I'll teach them a lesson!
Chris: We're also behind a good education system.
Ben: So vote for me and noone will be hurt!
Chris: Health Care, great health care!
Screen lettering: (background Music: poor 5th grade rendition of Hail to The Chief) Ben + Chris in 2012: This time, why not the Worst?


Commercial 3
--------------
Ben: Hey Chris, have you ever seen Leonard, Part VI?
Chris: That was an awful movie.
Ben: How can you say anything by Bill Cosby is awful?
Chris: So was the Cosby Mysteries.
Ben: Bill Cosby is a genius!
Chris: Only when he's talking about his children's brain damage.
Ben: What the F*** are you talking about you dumbass, Cosby Rules!
Chris: Calm down, Ben
Ben: GODDAMMIT I'LL KILL YOU, I'LL KILL YOU, I'LL KILL YOU
Announcer: Hey guys, we're filming, can we get on with the commercial?
Ben: oh
Screen lettering: (background Music: poor 5th grade rendition of Hail to The Chief) Ben + Chris in 2012: This time, why not the Worst?

------------------
Look at the past few years:
Jimmy Carter: Who we kidding, Valium Posterchild. We go to:
Ronald Reagan, Howdy Doody Sr. If it keeps getting benign, we might end up with:
Mr. Rogers, "Can you say Armageddon? Oops, too late." Or we can get macho and have:
Jack Nicholson vs. Clint Eastwood, Shortest debate in history, all Jack will have to say is "How can you debate me, you haven't opened your goddammed eyes in twenty years."

*edit by CC: Close your tags! *

[This message has been edited by Charles Capps (edited June 14, 2000).]
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 

CRIMINY!!

HTML edit, please!!!

Besides, this thread is supposed to be about Buchanan/Schlessinger and co.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi


[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited June 13, 2000).]
 


Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
 
The best choice?

Colin Powell.

He's rumored to be Bush's Secretary of State, though...

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"The lies I told are not falsehoods according to my definition of truth." Bill Clinton
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I, of course, had firmly intended to vote the way I've voted in ALL elections, presidential or otherwise: I vote Meadow Party.

Alas, Bill & Opus have yet to find the financial backers to launch their campaign, & so I find that I'm forced to throw my support behind former Ambassador Duke. Like the man says, "Whatever it takes."

And Ben? Your campaign sounds a lot like a guy I knew in 95 & 96. Marcus refused to vote for Democrat Or Republican. His take was "Go Cthulu! Why choose the lesser of two evils?"

------------------
"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 


Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
 
Omega: Just a curious question.

"Endangered Species Act, et al"

You're really against this, huh? Why, and do you care about the environment and the animals?

------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Hey! Jeff thinks putting a high-ranking military figure in charge of a country is a good idea!

Hey, it worked for the Cardassians and the Klingons...

Of course, it hasn't worked well for us since Washington, and hasn't worked at all for most other countries...

Think about any recent political leader with "General" in his title, and whether you'd want him running your country. How far back do you need to go? DeGaulle? I think even a lot of the French hated him...

Of course, this is overblown, but let's keep the civilian government and the military separate as much as we can, okay? Much as I like Colin Powell... no.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
Oh, the irony of repealing all those executive orders via an executive order...not to mention that all the rest of your agenda would require executive orders to implement.

Well, since we are going to repeal all those nasty EO's let's start with EO 13136 which extended the date of the President's Commission on the Celebration of Women in American History from March 1, 1999 to December 31, 2000.

Women ain't important nohow.

Or we could repeal EO 13151 which established a Global Disaster Information Network to "use information technology more effectively to reduce loss of life and property from natural and man-made disasters..."

The Federal POWER grab!!

One can read about the dastardly EO's on the Federal Register page.

And for a more complete list of gaffs (rather than post the very loooooong list) go to The Complete Bushisms

------------------
Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns

And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Tahna:

"You're really against this, huh? Why, and do you care about the environment and the animals?"

There's a book you should read. It's called "This Land was Your Land". Among other things, it explains all the things that are wrong with the endangered species act, including the fact that authorization for it expired in '92. For example, did you ever hear about the case of the Mexican duck? It was declared an endangered species, leading to all manner of trouble for private land holders. The thing is, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MEXICAN DUCK. Someone just wrote a little (and I mean about the size of a notecard) dissertation on how Mexican ducks were disappearing, submitted it, and the agency in charge of such things arbitrarily declared the non-existant species and endangered one. The agency (whose name escapes me, unfortunately; EPA? I know the Army Corps of Engineers can as well in the case of wetlands such as vernal pools, AKA mudpuddles.) can make arbitrary decisions which strip land owners of their property without compensation (blatantly unconstitutional), and they don't have to do any legitimate research! They just have to take other people's research, assuming it to be right. One guy just arbitrarily moved the border between two "distinct populations" of a certain avian species north some miles in an article he wrote so as to reduce the population of the northern type (both were the same species) enough to have it declared endangered, giving the national government an excuse to confiscate hundreds of acres of California beachfront property.

As for Buchanan and Schlessinger: I don't particularly like Buchanan, for the same reason I don't like the Reform party in general. He seems like the kind of person who would say "If you don't play my way, I'm gonna take my ball and go home." In fact, that's pretty much what he did. Schlessinger seems to have given good advice in the very few hours I've spent listening to her, but I find her unnesecarily abrasive and rude in many cases. I suppose that she MIGHT make a good negotiator, but that hardly qualifies her for a government post.

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
Dern, I forgot about that Lincoln / Bush thing.

Are we really comparing the American education system from 1805 to the present university system to say that Bush is better somehow better or deserving of the office of president??

Lincoln scrounging up books to read vs. a frat boy who had everything handed to him.

Oh, that is grand.

------------------
Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns

And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
"Oh, the irony of repealing all those executive orders via an executive order"

The irony is the idea.

"not to mention that all the rest of your agenda would require executive orders to implement."

And exactly why's that? I said that I'd take things to the supreme court and congress. That doesn't require any executive orders. Unless you were refering to the creation of my constitutional foundation, in which case I was planning to do it with private funds.

"The Federal POWER grab!!"


Some people just don't get it. The point is that it's power grab by the _executive branch_. I have no serious objection to these programs, but the president does not and should not have the authority to create them without going through congress, as in the case of an executive order. This is not a dictatorship, or at least it's not supposed to be.

First:

"Hey! Jeff thinks putting a high-ranking military figure in charge of a country is a good idea!"

Well, since putting someone in charge of the country MAKES them a high-ranking military official...

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :
 
A fratboy who had everything handed to him? Uh, you�re not actually buying that �farmer Al� act, are you? Al�s as much a farmer as George W is a Texas cowboy, another joke.

Al�s Dad, Al Sr, was a poor Senator first elected to Congress in 1932. But by the time he was elected to the Senate in 1952, he had become rich enough to live in a plush hotel on Washington�s embassy row and send Al Jr. to the expensive St. Albans School in Washington.
Young Al went to Harvard, not Hayseed U. in Tennessee.
When Gore Sr. was defeated for reelection in 1970, Armand Hammer made him president of Occidental�s coal division, paying him $500,000 a year. Al Jr. would have been 22-23 at the time. When dad died, Al inherited a good chunk of Occidental Petroleum stock---bit of an embarrassment, since OP had links to Love Canal and is currently embroiled in a situation with natives in Columbia.

further reading about Al http://www.gargaro.com/algore.html
and http://www.gorefreetennessee.com/NewGoreFree/isms.htm


 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Through some extremely bizarre quirk of fate, I got a perfect score on the verbal portion of my SAT. Vote for me.

Simon in '00: He Doesn't Suck

Or, if you prefer...

Simon 2000: He's gonna be your Frankenstein

As for presidents, I think I'm going to vote for Lore. No, not that Lore.

------------------
"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Schlessenger hates the First Amendment, when its used by people who don't agree with her. She attacks organizations that promote free speech and inquiry for all people, such as the ALA, as sick people who want to give kids unfettered access to porn. (As if we were FORCING kids to sit down and click on it, and FORCING parents to take a back seat to our oh-so-evil plans, rather than encouraging parents to take responsibility THEMSELVES for what their child surfs to, but not interfere with the rights of other parents and children, and not use the Internet as a high-tech babysitter.)

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
What is it with all these perfect scores on the SAT verbal section? One of my friends got the same thing. If the SAT were in Magyar, I'd do better than the lot of you! Er, um.

------------------
June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"And as we all know, 454 Okudagrams equals an Okudapound." - Rick Sternbach
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
I took the SAT once, while recovering from the flu.
Math :620
Verbal :700

As dictator, I will order a review of current laws, executive orders, and other governmental edicts, with a careful eye to just where juch laws have gone wrong, and revise, amend, or strike them as I deem fit.

I don't know if the state of emergency will really be over when I'm dictator, as I consider it an emergency that we're being undermined from within.

I will uphold the Bill of Rights, more especially the First Amendment, in the spirit in which the authors intended, having gleaned their intents from studying their own writings. This will probably make me equally unpopular with both ends of the political spectrum, as the Right will have to give up school prayer and the left will have to give up many of the 20,000 gun control laws.

I will personally deal with any attacks on my history, character, or family past with unvarnished honesty, even when it makes me look bad. I will make the 'straight talk express' look like an Apologist's convention.

I will not spend, not will I permit the congress to authorize, $50,000 for a study of lap-dancing in Miami. If they want to get their rocks off, let them pay for it themselves.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
I think there may be some confusion as to the definition of school prayer. I certainly hope that you don't mean that students would not be allowed to pray in school as they please. "Congress shall make no law... prohibiting the free exercize [of religion]". Prayer certainly falls under the free excercize of religion.

"I don't know if the state of emergency will really be over when I'm dictator, as I consider it an emergency that we're being undermined from within."

But a state of emergency can only be declared in the event of invasion or rebellion. Of course, that would make our current state of emergency illegitimate, since there was neither at the time it was declared, so I could in theory have every single executive order since '33 thrown out on those grounds.

You really oughta get ICQ, First. We could have some interesting discussions.

I just took my first SAT a week or two ago. Have to wait 'til next Saturday to get the results.

------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
" I think there may be some confusion as to the definition of school prayer. I certainly hope that you don't mean that students would not be allowed to pray in school as they please."

As long as they do it quietly, without interrupting any part of your regularly scheduled school day, I don't have a problem with it. I don't care if you say your own silent grace over your food at lunchtime, either. But when people interrupt class, leave, or attempt to require a 'prayer/meditation/quiet' time, I find that objectionable. There are plenty of places to take 'time out' to pray, specifically, the roughly 18 hours of the day you are NOT in school, weekends, home, church, etc. etc.

As for the state of emergency. If those are indeed the qualifications, I would agree that the State of Emergency was illegitimate.

(Of course, it's also my opinion that the government of the country HAS been invaded... by the stupid, the greedy, and the inane.)

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
But what do we do about forms of prayer that are inherintly disruptive, in that they cannot be done quietly to yourself?

------------------
"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Homeschool.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
*claps*

Homeschooling rules!

Take the inner cities. There are some highschool students that really want an education, but they have to work, too. This means that they don't have the needed time to study, and thus will get bad grades. Now if they homeschooled, they could get all the books they needed for free at the library, and both their work and school hours would be extremely flexible, thus giving them itme to to both to their heart's content.

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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933

 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Problem is, a lot of inner-city parents aren't qualified to homeschool, largely because they aren't any better educated than their children.

Or aren't home.
Or are in other circumstances causing them to be unfit learning models. (Today for chemistry, we're going to manufacture methamphetamines!)

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
You can't be serious, First, or I have done a poor job of presenting what I'm trying to say. Did you just suggest that students should be forced into substandard school environments because of how they practice their religion? Does anyone honestly entertain the idea that it is better to expel kids from nontraditional religions in order to make room for public prayer? This is the sort of thing the first amendment is supposed to guard against.

Also, Omega, re: your .sig.

------------------
"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
[double post; ignore]

[This message has been edited by Omega (edited June 16, 2000).]
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Fo2:

"a lot of inner-city parents aren't qualified to homeschool"

Most homeschool parents from _anywhere_ aren't qualified to teach, but that doesn't mean that they're unqualified to homeschool. All my parents do is keep up with what I do. (Well, my dad helps me with my math on the rare occasion that I need it, and he checks it, too, but he DOES have a masters in mathematics from Vandy, so that's more of a bonus. I could live without it.) The idea is to learn to teach yourself. I've learned a good bit of Latin with no help from anyone, for example.

Sol:

Substandard? Excuse me? I just got my achievement test results back, and I scored 99th percentile in everything except spelling (82nd, if you care). Homeschoolers consistantly score well above their public and private school counterparts.

And thanks for the link. I've changed my .sig accordingly. Funny thing, that I can't seem to find where I found it to begin with...

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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed." - Noah Webster, Author, An American Dictionary of the English Language
 


Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
 
Omega: What I meant is that it's not a sure thing that a high-schooler is going to be homeschooled adequately if his parent is illiterate, or has only a marginal education him/herself. "Us gonna learn ya trigonometry today." Doesn't quite ring right, does it? Forunately, this is a worst-case scenario.

Sol: What Omega said. As prayer in school goes, what I have stated so far is as far as I am willing to compromise. The line must be drawn somewhere. Let the Shakers (or whomever you're referring to) found their own schools, if they want to schedule special times for screaming out in the name of the Great Potato.

Or, from my point of view... "I'll tolerate the loonies, so long as they're quiet about it."

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
I've been thinking about it more, and the more I think, the more of a conundrum I seem to work myself into. With the plethora of existing (indeed, possible) religions, in theory you could have a school with so many different belief systems that require rituals that would interrupt the cirriculum that it would be impossible to adapt. Admittedly, this has no effect on my religion, but it's still an interesting problem. I can't use the analogy of roads ("Sure, drink all you want. But if you do it while driving, thus endangering others, we shoot you."), because you're not actively endangering the lives of others.

Perhaps if there was a rule enacted in which you could not enter or leave a classroom once class has commenced except in cases of emergency...

You know, that just might work. Just pick up your work after the class is over, and you shouldn't miss much. Just as long as you don't loose credit for not being physically present. After all, it's what you know that matters, not where you are. If the sole problem is that things like having to bow toward Mecca at certain times or the like requires leaving the classroom, thus disturbing the other students, that would seem to fix it.

Whadda ya think?

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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed." - Noah Webster, Author, An American Dictionary of the English Language
 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I think you people scare me. The idea behind the creation of schools was to educate children in the things their parents don't know.

The quality of an education recieved at home seems rather random to me. Of the the homeschooled people I've known, the one I knew the best had a frighteningly spotty education. She was a brilliant girl, no doubt about it. Well spoken, literate, etc. She also had almost no grasp of basic scientific concepts. Her parents weren't scientists, and so hadn't seen it necessary to push these things. Which is fine, so far as it goes, I suppose.

Perk up, Omega, I'm about to give what passes as mad props to George II here. The ideal behind our educational system is that something like a high school diploma means something quantitatively. This person has studied x, y, and z. Arguably, the current system isn't living up to this standard, and a diploma from Moscow, Idaho might mean this student is ready for college, while one from Miggleburg, Iowa means that the student managed to avoid killing anyone during high school. This is a big problem. Homeschooling only exacerbates it. And I'm not even particularly anti-homeschool. I just think it is highly undesirable as a national standard, and should not be typical.

As to the prayer thing, I don't think we're firing on the same cylinders here. What I'm saying is this: students currently have every right to pray, so long as their prayer, like any other activity, does not interrupt the class. There is no ban on school prayer. (Though there are hypersensitive school employees.) What certain elements desire is to remove the laws that prohibit schools from acknowledging any one religion. This is what I think is silly. The defense is made that the school isn't really going to be advocating a single religion, but making room for all of them to pray publicly in class. But I'd like to see how long that claim lasts after the first student with a pocketful of salt draws a magic circle around his desk.

------------------
"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
"I just think it is highly undesirable as a national standard, and should not be typical."

Well, considering that on average, as I've stated, homeschoolers are actually better educated that most people in the country, I'd say homeschooling probably is a pretty good standard. Yeah, of course there are people who do it specifically to get their kids out of doing any work. But when those people get out into the real world, then they're pretty much screwed. With the state of public education, the MAJORITY of the graduates are pretty much screwed when they get to the real world.

And a high school diploma doesn't really mean ALL that much when you're trying to get into college. SAT and ACT scores are far more important. If it were me, I'd just say that you didn't need a diploma to get in, but I'm not the dean (or chancellor, or whatever).

In fact, SAT scores would be a pretty good way to determine who can certain jobs. Say you had to score 400 on a (company-sponsored, if you hadn't already taken one) SAT to work at McDonald's.

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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed." - Noah Webster, Author, An American Dictionary of the English Language
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
And as for school prayer, I now think I agree with you totally. Just as long as you don't take it too far and start trying to take down documents that are supposedly supportive of a particular religion, like, say, the Constitution. They did that in Kentucky. Had to take the state constitution out of a historical exibit.

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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed." - Noah Webster, Author, An American Dictionary of the English Language
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Interestingly, an an A-grade pass in Chemistry A-level mean spretty much the same thing, whether you went to school in Liverpool or Manchester. Now, Universities are a different thing, but a First class degree from a "real" university (Demontfort University my arse), is still pretty good.

And I have to say: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed."

Do you really believe this crap? Or do you think that all the presidents and Prime Ministers of European counties are really passing unjust laws saying "he he he, we can get away with this because our citizens can't kill each other from 5 metres away"?

Come on, name ONE unjust rule that the UK has. Or France. Or Germany.

Sometimes hostory can help us shape the present. Sometimes gistorical significance means bugger all.

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"A fully functioning, cybernetic, technologically advanced team of superheroes... and NOBODY'S got a flashlight?"
- Polly Ester; Samurai Pizza Cats
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Liam:

That quote's from quite a while back (like, centuries). I'd put a date on it, but I don't have one. To avoid confusion of the less informed, I have changed my .sig yet again.

And sure, I can name unjust laws in any country with gun control. The gun control laws. Removing someone's ability to defend their rights is violating those rights. Unless, of course, in those countries the people have some other way to defend said rights. Care to name one?

------------------
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed." - Noah Webster, Author, An American Dictionary of the English Language
 


Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
 

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited June 17, 2000).]
 


Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
One of the first "life lessons" people should be getting after high school is that, in the real world, test scores are essentially meaningless. Even most colleges are more interested in your learning history than your performance in one isolated instance.

------------------
"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
It'd be better if we argued on the other thread that Daryus had already hijacked, okay Omega.

What Sol said is true. What's even more true (at least over here), is that most employees dont' give a fig about your GCSE (age 16) grades. ANd if you've got a degree, they don't care about your A-level (18 grades). Acutally, even if you haven't, they don't really caer. Actual job experience is worth far more than Hostory A-level.

Many would argue that degrees are largely useless now too. I disagree. You can learn a lot of transferable skills at uni. How to sit through a lecture pretending not to have a hangover. How to down 5 Tequilla slammers in a row without so much as breaking a sweat. And I've got one mate who swears that midnight stoned Runouts is one of the best games you can play.

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"A fully functioning, cybernetic, technologically advanced team of superheroes... and NOBODY'S got a flashlight?"
- Polly Ester; Samurai Pizza Cats
 




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