As religion may not mean as much in our country for our political canidates, a gesture of choosing an Orthodox Jew as a major leader in America to the Palestinian leader is nothing short of hostility. If the Gore ticket is elected, you can be sure Arafat wont be appearing anymore on American soil and no peace will ever be reached for another generation.
I, as many people, could care less about a canidate's religion. Lieberman, being a senior senator for many years, is obviously an experienced politician. Capable of the capacity of vice president. But we're Americans, living in a country based on religious freedom, and we think like that. People in the Middle East don't.
So for the sake of foreign policy, and the chance for a truce between Palestine and Isreal, lets hope Bush/Cheney wins.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
I say, we should just get Iceland, evacuate all the existing residents...stick all the people of Israel, Palestine, the Orangemen and their Protestant friends, Chechnyans and Russians, Cubans and Americans, India and Pakistan there...mix with a nice big spatula and watch the fireworks behind fireproof glass (and bullet-proof...acid-proof...nuclear proof...)
------------------
Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
The peace talks at Camp David were never going to solve anything, and I think it's ignorant to think the good ol' policeman of the world, USA, is going to be the one who helps set things straight between the two.
It's like the discussions we have about gun control. 8 pages and 265 posts later, nothing has changed, nobody's enlightened, and noone's better off.
Then, a month later, it starts again. And again, and again, and again, and never does it ever do anything but allow pompous blowhards to reiterate their position again and again.
As it is with Israel and Palestine.
"Israel Good. Need Jerusalem. Religion."
"Palestine good. Need Jerusalem. Religion."
"Napster good."
"Beer good."
Anyway, I think wether or not Lieberman should be elected should rest more on what he can do for the USA than how it will offend Mr. Chief-Terroristo-Arafat.
I just want them both to fucking nuke each other into dog food, so that I could take over their land, and create a nudist colony solely for SI swimsuit models.
In a UNITED STATES presidential election, I think the needs of the UNITED STATES come before all else, even if it means pissing of a country here or there.
------------------
"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
But for another question: why can't these morons just coexist!? Just make one BIG state with Jerusalem as its capital, with total religious freedom, and EVERYONE's happy. Well, all REASONABLE people, at least. Which may not count for much, upon reflection.
------------------
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
quote:
I think the needs of the UNITED STATES come before all else, even if it means pissing of a country here or there.
That's where you're wrong, son. The only serious job of a president and its high ranking officials is foreign policy. And as conflicts maybe eternal, and bloodlines different, the US always has to keep the stance of peace and make truce. It is the responsibility for us to douse the flames. Seperate the fighting. In extreme situations, annex the country. But we must promote peace.
And with the promotion of peace comes an impartial stance towards everyone, or at least fooling a leader into an impartial stance. And choosing Lieberman does not convey this important idea. Instead, it does much the opposite.
Pleasing everyone comes in the best interests of you. And you cannot afford to alienate anyone.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
I know Joe Lieberman. I've met him, I've worked with his campaign people the last time he ran for re-election. He's not a stupid man. We actually sat & talked for about 45 minutes on Mideast policy; he'd heard me talk about my wargames that I used to run (& I'd LOVE to run an online version of them, but...) & we got to talking. He's a very smart, very intelligent man who knows where the chips fall. As a MAN, as a Jew, he was very much concerned about Israeli tactics about their need to always be right. As a politician, he understood that things are a long, slow arduous process. In many ways, his insight might HELP along the travel down the road becasue he has that rare ability to see both sides of the argument. Given the Israeli propensity to switch from one extreme to the other wit htheir leaders (conservative to liberal & back again), Barak's eventual replacement (& I'm thinking it'll come soon) will most likely be a peacemaker of Begin proportions. My only hope is that Arafat is alive long enough to help secure a good deal, because some of his possible successors as de facto Palestinian spokesperson aren't as mellowed out as he's gotten.
------------------
"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Please note as well... Clinton's "Mid-East Peace" agenda has nothing to do with anyone in the U.S. He's doing it for his own legacy. He's trying to validate his terms as president. And since they've broken, he has probably made it worse.
------------------
Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
------------------
"If Picard was set loose on a Monopoly board, he'd try and establish peaceable diplomatic relations with Marvin Gardens and give St. James Place wide berth so that its culture could develop without interference."
--
L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Because I'm the passenger, and I ride and I ride.
If I recall correctly, Jerusalem fell to some empire at some point after the NT was written. All the Jews living there were either exiled or massacred. Can someone verify this?
Today, Palestinians are different then the ones in the bible in the sense that they follow a particular religion. But the Jews still want to fight.
Sadly, I predict that another Jewish Holocaust will happen. While Israel's enemies have lost many battles, the enemies have regrouped to become stronger. They will stop at nothing short of the complete annexation of Israel and turning it over to whom they believe are the rightful owners, those of Islamic faith. Israel, meanwhile, seems to be more weakened as these battles drag on. It's only a matter of time when Israel is gone, perhaps for good.
As for Lieberman, I agree. One of the few reasons why I would consider Bush and Cheney.
------------------
"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
It seems like everyone but me has met Joe Lieberman. Maybe its because of where I live (Tucson, AZ, where the closest politician I've seen is Mayor Bob Walkup), but I had never heard of Lieberman until a few weeks ago when they were talking about people interested in being on Gore's ticket. I was actually thinking Kerry would of made the perfect running mate for Gore (he has that Vietnam battle hero thing going, as well as a way to wrap up the mid-west). I was also thinking how funny it would be if he picked another Kennedy. There hasn't been a good Kennedy joke for a while.
Anyways, as I said, the man is a great politician. But you can't help anti-semitism [prob sp] one bit, not only with Americans but with your foreign relations. And if Lieberman likes to or not, the more the press touts the ethnic thing, the more it hurts Lieberman.
As its been a modern convention in recent years to send your veep to the Middle East, I couldn't see Lieberman do it. If nothing else for safety issues.
I remember that Henry Kissinger was of Jewish herritage. Like a smart politician, he covered everything up so no one could say anything. Good or bad, so that he stayed an neutral party. And through this careful tact, he handled foreign policy better than any staff member in the 20th century. Mao, Breschnev, both handled wonderfully by Nixon thanks to Kissinger's planning.
It would work to Lieberman's advantage to take Kissinger's strategy.
quote:
All the Jews living there were either exiled or massacred. Can someone verify this?
I know that the people there today bow down to the ruins of a second temple, indicating a first one frequented by a different group of Jews, like you said. I believe the first Jews were mostly cycled through Europe, where they lived there marry, or not so marry, ways until they the mass emigration sparked by the holocaust.
Since this isn't my subject, I could be wrong. Though I'm pretty sure about it.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 11, 2000).]
Would this be a good time to mention that I have in fact met Lieberman?
------------------
Frank's Home Page
"I love you all. Now shut up. Danke." - Simon Sizer
------------------
"If Picard was set loose on a Monopoly board, he'd try and establish peaceable diplomatic relations with Marvin Gardens and give St. James Place wide berth so that its culture could develop without interference."
--
L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Because I'm the passenger, and I ride and I ride.
About 50 years (IIRC) after Christ was crucified, the Hebrews went on a wee rampage and the occupying Romans summarily kicked the shit out of them, culminating in a mass-suicide after a standoff on a cliftop fortress called the Masada (shades of Waco? 
) All but a few thousand Hebrews were dispersed across Europe, and the Romans ruled Palestine with an iron fist as a relatively Jewless, pretty Roman, province for the next several hundred years. Then a Kurd named Saladin did a bit off ass-whooping of his own, and from then until about 1900 Palestine was ruled by the non-Hebrew native tribes, collectively referred to today as the "Palestinian Arabs" They adopted Islam, but as Simon said, the few thousand Jews still in Palestine were hardly persecuted. Eventually the area became part of the Ottoman Empire, which brings us up to World War I. That's when things get complex.
------------------
"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited August 11, 2000).]
And it could've been worse--ever seen Sam Gejdenson? Love his work for the Groton area, but DAMN!
Of course, had Ella lived, she would've kicked Reagan's ASS in the 84 election--as PRESIDENT, not that VP shit.
------------------
"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
1: Gore's probably not going to win anyway.
2: Hillary wants really badly to win in New York.
3: There seem to be a lot of Jewish folks in New York.
4: Having a Jewish VP candidate might make the Democrats (Hillary) look better in the eyes of Jewish voters in New York.
Therefore, this may be a 'if you can't win, help your friend' pick.
And... if you think it might alienate Arafat, think about how it could annoy some of the Democrat's core constituents... BLACKS. After all, the black fringe leadership (Farrakhan, Sharpton, Jessie "Hymietown: Jackson) has been playing up a black/jewish conflict for years and years...
------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited August 11, 2000).]
Amen. Our votes are for US elections. We, as voting, responsible citizens possess a duty to elect those to public office whom we believe will best serve the interests of the United States of America. Serving the interests of foreign powers is nonsensical and borders on treason (thinks of Algore accepting how many millions of dollars in illegal campaign contributions from Red China and then endorsing free trade with them? Odd, how that happened).
I don't recall the Palestinians saying to themselves, "Let's not put Arafat into office; he'll upset the Israelis." They clearly elected him because they believed that Arafat could best represent their interests. That's democracy (or at least a republic) in action, just the way it should be - the will of the people. Why should the USA behave differently? Why should the USA always cave in to others?
Vote your conscience. If you're a US citizen, then vote for whomever you personally believe will do the best job for America and best represent your interests as US citizens. Don't not vote for someone, because you think their election will offend someone ten thousand miles away. This is life, and they need to accept reality. To every foreigner (no xenophobia intended. Really) who is upset on religious grounds because Liebermann might, just might become Vice President, I have one thing to say to you: "Deal with it."
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
Um, and just how many young American soldiers do you intend to get killed every year dousing the flames? One? One thousand? One hundred-thousand? One million? The occasional peacekeeping mission may be acceptable, even proper, but it is hardly the USA's duty to police the world.
"...annex the country?" Yeah, right. Let's annex Indonesia. They're only in the middle of Christian versus Islamic civil unrest, among other problems. Let's make that our problem. Wait, how about making the former Yugoslavia US territory! I'll bet Milosovic will just love learning he now has American citizenship, not to mention Russia's reaction. Can you imagine the sheer number of troops that would be required to occupy and garrison these annexed countries? And, who is to say they even want to be annexed? What about independence? Self-determination? These troops would become the targets of terrorists, freedom fighters, call them what you will, intent upon reestablishing their countries' freedom. So again, how many young Americans do you intend to kill today?
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
Um, and just how many young American soldiers do you intend to get killed every year dousing the flames? One? One thousand? One hundred-thousand? One million? The occasional peacekeeping mission may be acceptable, even proper, but it is hardly the USA's duty to police the world.
"...annex the country?" Yeah, right. Let's annex Indonesia. They're only in the middle of Christian versus Islamic civil unrest, among other problems. Let's make that our problem. Wait, how about making the former Yugoslavia US territory! I'll bet Milosovic will just love learning he now has American citizenship, not to mention Russia's reaction. Can you imagine the sheer number of troops that would be required to occupy and garrison these annexed countries? And, who is to say they even want to be annexed? What about independence? Self-determination? These troops would become the targets of terrorists, freedom fighters, call them what you will, intent upon reestablishing their countries' freedom. So again, how many young Americans do you intend to kill today?
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
quote:
"Let's not put Arafat into office; he'll upset the Israelis."
Yes, yes, yes, but who is the US? Not a group full of culturally similar people with a religious grudge towards someone else. You cannot compare a first and third world country. They have different mindsets, one forwards, one backwards. A good metaphor would be to say "The Columnbine kids kids had a reason to shoot their school apart, why don't I? Aren't I angry?" Of course you're angry, but you're the US and you don't lower yourself to others attitudes.
I think it was sometime around WWII that the United States was crowned de facto peacekeeper/ruler/director of everything it can see. If we suddenly became isolationist again, quite a few countries woulds call foul and iresponsibility on behalf of us, and before you'd know it our economy would fall through (by cutting the apparratus that connects us to the world markets) and we would soon be as paltry as a big third world country. If nothing else, our foreign policy ensures our domestic and economic futures.
I don't know how you're bringing the Balkans into this, that's something different. About the Middle East, the situation right now doesn't call for any drastic action. Its Clintons and a few other people's agenda to play with the leaders in the off chance they'll agree to a nice, shiny peace of paper just for the sake of Clinton's legacy.
But if they did start doing something stupid (like a really good chance of nuclear warheads going off) we would certainly come in and take the country. And it wouldn't involve substantial sums of people dying. That happens when the US is has a so/so stance about something (like with every conflict since WWII, most noticably Vietnam). Though when a determined US is determined, things will happen quickly and forcefully, and most likely there wont be any resistance on the side of the other country, for fear of having their country permanently annexed and not just reformed.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 11, 2000).]
Of course, my approach to foreign policy when dealing with squabbling minor countries is generally the same one my father had towards squabbling between my brother an myself, which takes one of two tacks:
A: "Okay, you boys go out and fight it out. when you're done, the winner can fight ME."
or
B: "I've had it up to here with you two, and if you don't stop fighting RIGHT NOW I'm going to come up there and beat the living shit out of BOTH of you."
Generally, the threat was enough for us, although I suppose that with some of these other countries a few flattened cities might be required.
And if you're worried about terrorists or "freedom fighters," there's always the Douwd solution...
"You don't understand. I killed ALL of them. All Husnock, everywhere."
(I'm not really serious about all this. It's just that it's all so very tiresome, what with these other countries that refuse to grow up.)
------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
(Or, if you prefer, "that's a bit rich coming from a country that produced country & western. Grow up and invent some real music).
------------------
"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
LOL ... "Am'a Alderman of the ieyeee'est class between 'awwwww four oceans!"
Silly English!
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 12, 2000).]
------------------
"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
quote:
you're blabbering on about.
How true, how true. English dialect is blabber. "Ay'll raise my mug to 'at"
"Now ay may be no lexicographer, but ayyyeee speak the Queen's English with a tongue royale!"
{swigs}
If you haven't noticed, the thread's degenerated to this. Ah, but how I started it. I guess I can't help myself.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 13, 2000).]
------------------
Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
Peter McKeeter lived once-upon-a-time in Cogsborough, Sussex, where he worked as a fieldworker and journeyman. After his work was done in the field, he'd come waltzing into the local pub roaring "Ayyy'ma Peter McKeeter! Long Live the Queenie!"
{swig}
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
------------------
"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
Why did I bring in the Balkans? Its simple, really. Because you stated that the US should annex countries/regions that are undergoing problems, unrest, etc., in the interests of promoting peace. That naturally implies world troublespots like the Balkans. That is not any different from some other part of the world, be it the Balkans, the Middle East, the Horn of Africa, etc. Incidentally, the Balkans and the Middle East share a great number of similarities, including some rather serious religious differences. By the way, I'm truly not certain if you are aware of this, but when you annex a country you by definition have to do something with the people who already live there. You can either forcibly expel or exterminate them, thus eliminating the problem (yeah, wouldn't that go over well?), or grant them citizenship. Now, since I doubt the US intends to engage in another Holocaust, I submit that granting citizenship would be the only semi-viable option. Therefore, if we annex these troublespots as you suggest in the interests of peace, guess what? Yep, all of those wonderful people who have spent decades if not centuries trying to kill each other just became your equals. Let's see... How many Middle Eastern terrorists just got US citizenship today and are now living right down the street from you and me? Hmmmmm.... Isn't annexation great?
Finally, many people don't cotton to having their country and national self-identity summarily erased and would certainly resist, hence my query about regarding the vast number of troops needed to police these newly annexed regions. Oh, but wait... Those heavily armed troops occupying your country aren't meant to intimidate. They're here in the interests of peace! That's why they're carrying M-16A2s! Trust us!
Non-annexation also does not imply isolationism. It just means that we aren't going to take over some poor dirt farmer's country today and create a threat to world peace. Oh, and if you're such a big fan of annexation please send me your address. You see, I'm bigger and badder than you (remembers his drill instructor's kind words) and I just annexed your home. Everything you owned now belongs to me. Now, get out! Teehee! That was fun! Your computer, your furniture, everything. How do you like it? Probably, not very much. Just remember, its all for your own good. Trust me!
Now, if some moron (thinks of Saddam Hussein) grabbed a hold of a nuclear weapon and threatened to use it, then yes, the USA would certainly act in self-defense. However, that is a far cry from outright annexation, which in the manner you have represented it is nothing short of rabidly imperialistic land grab - just the sort of behavior the world has come to loathe, and definitely the type of behavior which would give the USA a very bad reputation.
Promoting world peace can be pursued through many avenues that don't involve the use of military force to eliminate someone else's country. Direct negotiations, the use of the UN, etc., all come to mind.
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
Maybe I have used the wrong word. Whenever I say "annex", take it for "temporarily annex." Or maybe not annex at all, but "U.S. aided reform." Right now, I would not touch the Middle East or Balkans. I'd wait for things to run their natural course, as through waiting for Hussein and Milosevic and their respective parites to demise in power, and then in that small time frame when the country is without a leader invite in the local democractic, or what-have-you party, into the capital and draw up a new constitution for the country.
Annexing involves a long term strategy. Not a one day massacre to "take the country." In no case would the U.S. hold the country for any duration of time, about as much time as it takes to plant the seeds and insure the country with a proper ruling party (Months). No policing of streets, or forcing anything on anyone. Just slow reform.
Slow reform as we see in Russia, and now China. But for those two countries, reform was selfimposed, or is being selfimposed. But the U.S. could easily play that transitional leader role itself for those "hot spots" where such a leader could never be cultivated.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
Going in simply to 'help out' generally leads to being mired in unpleasant situations, as in Vietnam, Somalia, and the Balkans.
Not going in at all... well, sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. It depends on how much power the miscreants wield, and how much sway they have over the hearts and minds of their people. And what they're doing.
Now personally, I believe that engaging in a policy such as "ethnic cleansing" requires a general and complete annihilation of the "cleansers'" policymakers, as it did with the Nazi's in WWII. The problem in the Balkans is that ethnic hatred runs so deep that it would be hard to get the populace's support of someone who DOESN'T agree with it.
------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
Concur! And, that is why even a temporary annexation would inevitably lead to trouble. Someone would disagree and take matters into their own (often extremely violent) hands. Remember, the USA's involvement in Vietnam was supposed to be temporary, at least until the South Vietnamese government and armed forces were strong enough to defend themselves and police their own country - didn't happen. Temporary solutions have a way of mutating into permanent or long term problems. It may sound cold and heartless, but the people on the spot have to solve their own problems. Solutions canonly come from within, not from without. The USA should promote peace, yes, but we cannot be the world's policeman.
By the way, the food in my new house's 'frig really sucks! Whoever owned it before I "temporarily" annexed it really needs to hit the grocery store and feed me right! (Smile)
------------------
Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
quote:
The problem in the Balkans is that ethnic hatred runs so deep that it would be hard to get the populace's support of someone who DOESN'T agree with it
As true as that might be, and has been since civilization arose in that area, the world is changing faster and faster around them. The people who populate these countries are slowing having a change of heart themselves. More and more people are trying to escape the countries, as there are becoming less and less faithfuls to the traditional factions.
But most importantly, the impressionable youth that feed the ethnic hatred are now being exposed to two ideas, one western pacifist and their traditional. The former is slowly gaining more support.
So thus there will be a time, not necessarily soon, when peace will become a reality.
------------------
-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.