Flare Sci-Fi Forums: US to seize OPEC

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

On October 20th, 2000 the Government has issued the combined forces of the US Navy, Marines, Army, and Air Force to invade all OPEC member countries and leaders. The goal of this strike is to increase the oil production back to what it was three years and have gas prices drop faster than they raised. As well as drop prices in all US Allied countries in Europe and the rest of the world.

Ok, so none of that is true. But I wish it were. No doubt the OPEC topic has been discussed. But could someone please remind why they decided to decrease oil production? Or why it's been tolerated so far?

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Calvin: "Nothing spoils fun like finding out it builds character."
This post sponsored in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Here's the deal. They were asked to lower production because the price of oil was unstable, AND at a price of $10 per gallon. Lowering production was to stabilize it. However, due to higher than normal consumption, as well as the US becoming dependent on foriegn import of oil, prices rose. The answer? Reduce consumption, or increase domestic production.

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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

After all, it is their oil isn't it? Unless you want to get into that socialist idea of the world's resourses belonging to everyone on the planet and not just those who got there firt.

Ahem....moving on....

Anyway Jeff you said, "Reduce consumption..." I couldn't agree more, but how do you intend to get around:

A) The �ber large oil companies who are making huge profits off of the internal combustion engine

B) Those same �ber large oil companies lobbying Congress against any sort of regulation that would threaten the status of the internal combustion engine as number 1

C) Yuppie American materialism that includes:
1) 2 huge Ford Expeditions or 1 Expidition and on Hummer per household. The sole purpose of which is to look cool while driving and getting 5 miles per gallon of �ber large oil company gas.
2) 3 cell phones, 2 pagers, a personal air conditioner, and a TV in each room of the house. These drive up use of electricity to a huge degree. Electricty in California is by in large nautral gas produced or...you guessed it Oil produced.

Flameboard...here we come!

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This is a place of business, not a peewee flopphouse!
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

You people have it in for me, don't you?

As this is a loaded political topic, apparently, I send it to that special section of paradise we've carved out for loaded political topics: The Earth's Core!

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Actually, the Clinton admin asked OPEC to lower production so we'd buy more oil from Russia. Thus Russia would make more money with which to pay back the poorly-advised loans said administration made to them. Basically, we're paying for Clinton's mistakes. Literally.

As for reducing consumption, demand does what it does, and you can't do much about it for a flat-out necessity. Increase supply, or come up with a viable alternative to gasoline.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Jay, I don't plan on doing anything to reduce consumption... Nor do I have anything to do so... Still, it is a viable answer, unlikely as it is to happen.

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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

So, forget consumption reduction or alternatives to oil...just make those OPEC people lower their dern prices!! Or get the Ruskies to pump more out!! Or make someone else pump more! Just so I don't have to pay more!

I think I saw the mountains in LA a couple of days ago. Anyone here living in Houston can understand the immediate necessity of American and world wide reduction of dependence on oil and the creation and futher development of alternative fuels.

But no, we can keep knuckling under to the �ber large oil companies who help keep my skys brown instead of blue.

That's mighty shortsighted of y'all.

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Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited October 17, 2000).]

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Dern right old boy. Dern right.

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Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Gawd Jay, you think Oil Companies WANT to pollute? You know how expensive it is to pay fines and do cleanup? Pollution is NOT in the Oil companies best interest.

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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

quote:

Gawd Jay, you think Oil Companies WANT to pollute? You know how expensive it is to pay fines and do cleanup? Pollution is NOT in the Oil companies best interest.

Actually, Oil companies, along with Coal companies don't give a rats ass about pollution. Paying fines, in the rare instances that they are forced to, is cheaper then putting control devices in place. I work in the regulatory part of the state, and the mines get by like crazy. Oil does as well, unless it's something on the scale of the Exxon spill.

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Sailing the Slipstream

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

You know, I'm thinking that if the oil prices raised their prices ...

People might find ways to get the power we need WITHOUT using gasoline. Then we could tell the oil companies to go to hell.

And we'd have a blue sky.

If the prices went down, everybody would have all they need and more. With prices up, how many people with four-by-fours go on a leisurely Sunday drive? Come on. Lowering costs would - yes, it would - get more people on the road more often.

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***
Gore/Lieberman 2000

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

No, they wouldn't. This summer prooved that. Highest gas prices in QUITE a while, and yet there was more summer driving than there'd been for some time, too. The price increase didn't reduce consumption.

As I said, sure, come up with a better alternative, and I'll be the first to buy one, but until you have one, there is NO reason for trying to increase prices.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Of course, if it were $1,000,000 a gallon, there'd be less driving. And richer gas pumpers.

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"...Well, we're about to witness All-in Wrestling, brought to you tonight, ladies and gentlemen, by the makers of Scum�, the world's first combined hair oil, foot ointment, and salad dressing; and by the makers of Titan�, the novelty nuclear missile. You never know when it'll go off!" - Monty Python, Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
*ahem*

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

No, there'd just be riots. Like in Brittan. Of course, exactly who the riots would be against is the question. That would be determined by who was making the "obscene profits", to coin a phrase, since it doesn't cost all that much to actually produce the stuff (unless you tack on pointless regs, of course). In the case of England, it's the government. They're the ones taxing the heck out of the product. And they didn't even do a thing to produce the stuff, so it's even less fair that they make money off of it.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Here's another stupid question; wasn't there a huge amount of oil discovered in Alaska? If so, why aren't we (as in America) using it? At least a limited amount to increase the overall production and lower the gas prices.

It's actually gotten pretty bad, cause as for that "consume less" idea the state of Florida has done that. They've limited the use of highway patrol,(state troopers or something), in order to conserve gas. I don't know if anyone sees the problem in that.

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Calvin: "Nothing spoils fun like finding out it builds character."
This post sponsored in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Heh. Canada produces it's own oil and we still have high prices. Go figure.

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"Incest! A game the whole family can play!"
-Jonah Rapp

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Taxes, Fab. I think Fo2 posted something about that a while back...

Hobbes:

The environmental wackos don't want us to drill there. Something about messing up the environment. Oh, yes, we'll loose the senic use of a few hundred acres of ice. Don't have enough ice fields in Alaska NOW, so we CERTAINLY can't afford to loose even a small part of one.

'Course, the only way it would actually do real damage is in an accident, and those happen extremely rarely. And the environment bounces back rather quickly, too...

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Actually Clinton did tap in to it, for 1.5 million barrels. It is known as Naval Oil Reserves, I think Field No. 2 is the largest. It is to be used for emergencies only, like the 70's, or incase a war in the mid-east makes it too difficult to get what we need.
If you think you pay a lot for gas look at this...
Diet Snapple 16oz for $1.29 equals $10.32 per gallon
Lipton Ice Tea 16oz for $1.19 equals $ 9.52 per gallon
Gatorade 20oz for $1.59 equals $ 10.17 per gallon
Ocean Spray 16oz for $1.25 equals $ 10.00 per gallon
Pint of milk 16oz for $1.59 equals $12.72 per gallon
STP Brake Fluid 12oz for $3.15 equals $ 33.60 per gallon
Vick's Nyquil 6oz for $8.35 equals $ 178.13 per gallon
Pepto Bismol 4oz for $3.85 equals $123.20 per gallon
Whiteout 7oz for $1.39 equals $25.42 per gallon
Scope 1.5oz for $0.99 equals $ 84.48 per gallon

And this is the REAL KICKER...... Evian water 9oz for $1.49 equals $ 21.19
per gallon .....$21.19 FOR WATER!!

Ok, any questions, or should we just start the rioting against uncontrolled capitalism????

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Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Oh, yes. Nyquil's an absolute necessity. In fact, I have to buy several dozen packages a week. Never mind the fact that they're not making all that much profit off that, since that's not probably not much more that what it costs to make. SOMETHING has to be done!

OK, in case you couldn't tell, that WAS sarcasm.

So... you're advocating that all LIQUIDS should cost the same, now, regardless of what they cost to make?

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Yeah, taxes are a bitch. Sure, we drill the oil from the Hibernia fields, sure, we refine it here in Saint John, but it still costs an arm and a leg. Go taxes.

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"Incest! A game the whole family can play!"
-Jonah Rapp

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Polluting and getting away with it...or long enough to make some fine profits...is certainly in the best interests of the �ber large oil companies.

Consider the amount of profit for the top executives over years of polluting vs. the costs of getting caught.

Anyway Jeff, I wasn't about superfund sights anyway...unless you might want to talk about the monumental costs it would take if any of the �ber large oil company refineries were to leave Torrance and you wanted to use the land for anything.

No, the type of pollution I was speaking of was the massive amount of air pollution spewed out by all kinds of machines spewing out stuff that turns my air into a brown muck...and they hyprocical nonsense that says yesh, reduce consumptuon, lower prices, but don't touch my Sport Utility Tank.

I mentioned Houston because in the great state if Governor G.W. Bush, they passed Los Angeles for first in the country for most smog. Now, the �ber large car companies much like the �ber large oil companies really don't give much of a pooh about cleaning up the air...or about looking for alternative ways to power your car or anything else they produce. The ONLY thing they care about is that they want you to keep using their unrenewable fossil fuels that are major sources of pollution so they can keep making profits.

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Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited October 17, 2000).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I get the feeling that some people in this discussion have never been to Alaska.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Hobbes, there are oil deposits in the Alaskan wilderness and off the cost of California...the question if you think that getting the oil there worth ruining parts of the California coast or the Alaskan wilderness?

Once it's gone, it's gone...and profits and use of gined from that oil are only temporary things.

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Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

I have been to Alaska Senator. It's Beautiful place.

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Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited October 17, 2000).]

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Ritten: Supermarkets DO sell water by the gallon. Now, I never bought a gallon of Evian, but I doubt they sell it for that much. Things are always cheaper when bought in bulk. You're oversimplifying it.

Omega: Now, aren't we just forgetting a tiny little incident called the Oil Embargo back in the 70s? If I remember correctly, oil prices went from maybe 75 cents (Don't remember exactly) to almost two dollars. "Experts" at the time thought oil prices were inelastic, meaning demand WON'T change because oil is a necessity. Well, the embargo proved them wrong. That's when all the fuel economy features came out (how many miles to a gallon). So it's not that demand doesn't change, it's that demand changes when oil prices rise drastically. Obviously, people are complaining because prices are higher than usual, but demand isn't dropping because if people can afford SUVs, they can afford a couple of dimes more per gallon. And there ARE alternatives: electric cars and hybrids (which cuts fuel by half if not more).

On a side note, someone at my apartment complex owns a BMW SUV. A horrendous double-atrocity if I ever saw one.

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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Well, if I ever heard of a reason to dislike Trojans...now I have one!

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Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

You know, not to interject interesting side-topics into all this, but in his novel Dune, Frank Herbert makes some interesting observations about what can happen to societies wholely dependant upon singular commodities.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Ah, yes, the oil embargo. When Japan got a foot into our auto market due to the stupidity of Nixon and Detroit...

Now I seem to recall this having something to do with Nixon's price and wage controls, but correct me if I'm wrong. Detroit started making cars that were horribly inefficient, because they figured that, because of the price control, gas wouldn't go up. Well, then the embargo(s) came along, and people needed an alternative to waiting in lines for gas (demand didn't drop just because supply did). Japanese cars were that alternative. Small, uncomfortable, ugly, and unsafe. But they were cheap and fuel-efficient. And thus the Japanese car industry was born.

People STILL wanted gasoline. They just wanted an alternative, too. The prices were inflated naturally, instead of artificially. Thus nothing to riot against. People don't stop driving just because of low supply or high prices.

Hybrid cars are great, but they still take gas. I'm betting that once the hybrid Durango and Intrepid come out in five years or so, they're gonna be REAL popular. I want one of those Intrepids.

Electric cars just suck. You can't go more than, what, 120 miles? And that's if you don't intend to go home.

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Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh?
Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns.
Pilot: Americans it is.
- "due South"

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

As Dictator, I will guarantee a market (and a billion-dollar X-prize) to the first company to safely 'beam' back a megawatt of power from an orbiting satellite.

There, that'll fix 'em.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited October 18, 2000).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

"Electric cars just suck"

NOW, they might. In 20 years, I bet that no less than 50 % of the new automobiles will be Electrically powered.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Fuck electric. Closed-circuit hydrogen engines. With a good condenser, you'll only have to tank up every 2 weeks or so. And the planet is like 70% fuel.

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"Two parts slush...one part solid ice...one part hard-packed snow...a dash of assorted debris...sculpt into sphere, and serve at high velocity without warning." --Calvin

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Tora: Yes, I did over simplify that above post.

But the point is how much does it take to make NyQuil?
I don't know, nor do I about gas, but it would be interesting to see the markup percentage on both.

What is the price of a barrel of crude oil, say $30.00 a barrel. What is a barrel, 50 gallons.
Now at the pump I pay about $1.639 a gallon, or $81.95 a barrel. That is a markup of 2.732x. Hell, I used to sell vacuums that I bought for $142.00 for $599.00, or a 4.218x markup. So an oil companies refining and transportion costs and profits are tied to a rough 2.7x markup. This only makes people mad because we all use gas, in one form or another.
If the oil industry used the same markup most businesses do the the price of gas would be about $2.40 a gallon.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the high prices and the money that they are able to spend on lobbying, and their ability to pay these fines that are cheaper than meeting EPA Standards. When I was a mech. infantryman in the older M106A2s as a mortar gunner the desiel exhaust would turn my face in to a sooty mess, so I can imagine what that was doing to my lungs. I now hear that desiel exhaust may get, or has gotten, to be labeled a carcinogen.

When I compare the markups of items I get more irate over other things than gas, my telephone bill, for example. I don't even call long distance, but since I make over 400 local calls they charge me..... Why? So they can rape me better than Exxon can.

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Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

It really does cost a bit to refine oil into gasoline. Transportation is no small thing, either. This is compounded in the Midwest, where there's a broken pipeline, and area-specific regs that make the gas cost more to refine.

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

This seems to be a case of priorities. Theres the one side (Jay, me and few others) who say that it doesn't matter a rats arse what happens to a few shareholders as long as we protect the environment and get rid of a basically destructive force (pollution). The other side is more grounded in the here and now and concerned over (what appear to be) purely financial concerns and some oddball economic theories. Such as inelastic demand. News for you guys. Note how in the rest of the world the average engine size for a car is 2litres? Not 4 or 5 like in the USA. Any idea why that is? Higher prices. They effect demand drastically. People will still want to drive, because there really is no viable alternative that matches flexibility, speed and convenience. However they don't want to pay through the nose to do so.

BTW if I were dictator, I'd roll out a plan for forced conversions to non-pollutive power sources within 5 years. Thus is the power of a dictator.

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Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Unfortunately, there are no non-pollution generating energy sources. Why, the sun is filling up with dangerous fusion by-products at such a prodigious rate that one day it will swallow the Earth! I don't know about you, but millions and millions of tons of superheated hydrogen plasma invading my personal space and vaporizing my personal person counts as rather severe pollution to me.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I know that this was said way, way, way back up there, but we had riots in England? You must have a strange definition of "riot".

If it's a group of people standing outside of petrol depots, drinking tea and saying to drivers "could you turn back please", then by all means, it was a riot.

BTW, people carriers (or whatever you call them in your country of origin), are just starting to become popular over here. The thing is, they are becoming popular as family cars. My mum has often has to fit 3 babies, and a few adults in them. A large number of people do have two cars, but it's usually one big car for when your taking large groups of people somewhere, and a little car for nipping around in. I've only got a 1.1 engine myself. I wouldn't actually like to own a BMW SUV, since it's hard enough parking at the moment. And our petrol's expensive. Cause our government's evil. And put's stuff in the water. That tangent was unrelated. Carry on.

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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Daryus:

"it doesn't matter a rats arse what happens to a few shareholders as long as we protect the environment and get rid of a basically destructive force."

Who said anything about the shareholders? I'm worried about the consumer. They eventually foot the bill, after all.

Of course, I probably SHOULD be worried about the shareholders, since without them, we don't get oil AT ALL. I'd imagine that you'd like the prices then, too.

"People will still want to drive, because there really is no viable alternative that matches flexibility, speed and convenience."

We're talking about speed in a unilitre vehicle, here? IIRC, some places are so desperate as to go to decilitres.

Sol:

I must add that to my list of quotes. Priceless...

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Omega,

How do you know there was more summer driving than usual? Did you pass out a survey? I really want to know how you came to that conclusion, because to me, I think thats BS you drew out of yer ass.

Jeff

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Radio news segment. Give me a bit to come up with an online source...

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Ritten:

quote:
And this is the REAL KICKER...... Evian water 9oz for $1.49 equals $21.19 per gallon ..... $21.19 FOR WATER!!

Except you wouldn't be paying $21.19 for water, you'd be paying for the brand name.

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Hobbes: "Irrational behavior."
This post sponsored in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Hobbes, your right there. Although that can open a whole new can of worms.

A new thread.... Buying name brand items made in near slave like conditions in China and Korea....

I guess the price of gas doesn't bother me all that much since I am a low end user, running back and forth to work, say 2.5 mi/4km one way. The pollution sucks, I have three kids to worry about getting a world I have helped turn to shit. So, while I can't come up with a decent process that will take over for an IC engine, I do support those that have the education to do so.

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Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Screw the slaves, I get to wear Nikes. I got the status that makes me the fucking baddest. I'm walking with a limp, but I'm not hanging with Gladys, Baddest, oh, Baddest, Humplik is the baddest. Smokin' more crack cocaine than Robert Downey.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Interesting rhyme scheme. But surely it would work better like this, no?

Ahhhhhh yeah.
What up, Ritzville?
Uh huh, yeah.
Woo woo!

Yo, check this rhyme out
From a rapper with da clout
It lands square in yo' boat
Like a fattened rainbow trout

All my lyrics are smooth
Yeah they use 'em for lotion
I rock 'cross the stage
With a Brownian motion

Like a cop slingin' lead
If your eyes close you dead
Wearin' supa-fly threads
Like I was Edith Head

Uh huh. Yeah
Uh huh. Yeah
Let's funk it up now

(cool funk bridge)

Fool, you can't be no rapper
Your delivery's deaf
You mumble your words
Like that one swedish chef

(Background: Yo! Bork bork bork!)

So for my conclusion
I'ma burst your delusion
I ain't fission, I'm fusion
Like a mad atom bomb
I'ma come with aplomb

Word.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

[This message has been edited by Sol System (edited October 20, 2000).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

In the house.

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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy

Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

There are cars like the Audi A2, and Toyota Prius that do 60-70 miles per gallon.Using cars like these won't make the problems go away but it's a start.

Also, I'm interested in how much of a factor non-gasoline products are in oil consumption, such as plastics and stuff, which a lot of people seem to overlook. But if you look around any room in any building you'll find loads of plastic, in pcs and other appliances, food packaging, and also less obvious ones like carpets, upholstery, and our clothes. Very few of which are recycled after their lifetime, and very few of which are biodegradable.

It is generally agreed that the oil supply is going to be practically exhausted in the next 50 years or so. I have a feeling Shell, Exxon etc have their strategies planned out already, when the oil supply is dwindling they'll shift towards alternative energy, pour huge amounts of money into researching wind and solar technology, and broker these technologies to power companies. But not until they've squeezed the planet dry of oil. Quite possibly, they already have these technologies but are withholding them. I think it would be in our best interests to conserve the oil we have left for valuable polymer applications instead of burning it in big, inefficient vehicles, destroying the environment.

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"Unleash the armageddon,
So all the children go to heaven"

"Blue Skies Bring Tears"-The Smashing Pumpkins.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

"It is generally agreed that the oil supply is going to be practically exhausted in the next 50 years or so."

Um, no. Try 500 years. Even at the rate we're going now, we've got a good century of usable oil, and they've just developed a technology that allows the extraction of the 70% of oil that's left behind when a well is "exhausted" in a safe, clean, cheap way. $5 a barrel oil, here we come.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

*WHERE* do you get these numbers from? 500 years? And where are the figures for the summer driving rise that you claim to have?

And *WHY* Omega, would you want to keep using gas-burning cars in 500 years? Or do you want to see the Earth totally destroyed by our actions? (This coming from a guy who drives a Jeep, I know, I know...)

Can you look me in the eye (er, figure of speech), and tell me you don't want to see more eco-friendly methods of power developed?

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***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

"*WHERE* do you get these numbers from?"

Where do you get YOUR numbers? I don't see you giving out your sources.

Anyway...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20001007_xnjdo_research_p.shtml

From the article: "Elgin said in North America alone there "is enough oil in the first thousand feet of just our abandoned wells in Canada and the United States to supply the entirety of the continent for 400 years."

Good enough for you?

"Can you look me in the eye (er, figure of speech), and tell me you don't want to see more eco-friendly methods of power developed?"

I already told you that I DO want them developed. But high prices aren't gonna do it. Why don't you just go out and INVENT a viable power source, instead of whining about it?

As for summer driving, I can't seem to find an online source. I guess it's not something that anyone keeps records on. But I did hear it. Whether you take my word for it or not is your decision, but then, of course, I can challenge you to proove that the amount of driving went DOWN this summer.

"Or do you want to see the Earth totally destroyed by our actions?"

Someone's been listening to the environmental wackos a BIT too much. The environment is NOT fragile. We couldn't destroy this planet if we WANTED to, short of an all-out nuclear assault. We've been using the ICE for a centruy now, and there are, what, three cities in the most heavily industrialized country on the planet that have major problems?

Just to clear up any other myths you may subscribe to: the o-zone hole is natural; acid rain is natural, and is not harmful in 98% of cases anyway; the rainforest is not being cut down at a rate of a football field a second; the Earth's temperature is not increasing. Anything I left out?

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

quote:
Just to clear up any other myths you may subscribe to: the o-zone hole is natural;

Prove it.

quote:
acid rain is natural

Prove it.

quote:
and is not harmful in 98% of cases anyway;

Prove it.

quote:
the rainforest is not being cut down at a rate of a football field a second;

Prove it.

quote:
the Earth's temperature is not increasing.

Prove it.

This is so much bullshit that even the Bull is jealous that you outshitted him. Do you read "National Geographic - The Denial edition! Check out next month's issue - How to create your own gas chamber and fake your very own Holocaust!!! Just like the Jews! Proof that will amaze!" I dunno.

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited October 20, 2000).]

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Does anybody remember what the ratio is of CFC atoms destroying o-zone atoms?? 10:1 I believe I have read...in Pop Sci several years ago. I can not remember what the mag was that I had read in the Dr.s office, but a small hole in the o-zone lay over the Antartic is natral, a few hundred km across, due to the falling action there. If I find the ref. I will post its location. What has them worried this year was the rate of the holes growth to 10 plus million sq. mi.

I'll look around for the ref's to the above, but with the way the Dr.s subscribe to mags it could have been the "Mirror Universes" National Geographic.....

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Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

To which I readily respond: proove otherwise.

But since you'll probably say something along the lines of, "But ALL reputable scientists agree on this," whereas "reputable" is defined as believing these things...

Global Warming: http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

Or, for a more in-depth study
http://www-unix.ecs.umass.edu/~wconner/che226/GlobalWarm/GWPROJ.HTM

But I do stand corrected on one thing. The Earth's temperature MAY be increasing slightly. It's just due to natural fluctuations, not greenhouse gases.

Ozone hole: http://www.junkscience.com/news2/ozhole.htm

Acid Rain: http://www.junkscience.com/news/junk-science-in-schools.html
http://enterprise.powerup.com.au/~dominion/ff/n15.htm

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

To which I readily respond: proove otherwise.

But since you'll probably say something along the lines of, "But ALL reputable scientists agree on this," whereas "reputable" is defined as believing these things...

Global Warming: http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

Or, for a more in-depth study
http://www-unix.ecs.umass.edu/~wconner/che226/GlobalWarm/GWPROJ.HTM

But I do stand corrected on one thing. The Earth's temperature MAY be increasing slightly. It's just due to natural fluctuations, not greenhouse gases.

Ozone hole: http://www.junkscience.com/news2/ozhole.htm

Acid Rain: http://www.junkscience.com/news/junk-science-in-schools.html
http://enterprise.powerup.com.au/~dominion/ff/n15.htm

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The irony of Omega using quotes from junkscience.com is so incredibly massive it threatens to collapse into a singularity. I'm beginning to suspect we are witnessing one of the most brilliant examples of postmodern performance art ever created.

No scientist argues that the Earth is getting warmer.

Scientists do argue over why it is getting warmer.

Humanity cannot destroy the Earth itself, nor eliminate its biosphere.

Humanity can, rather easily, remove itself and a large chunk of its closer relatives from said biosphere.

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love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Omega, in reference to your quip regarding a unilitre vehicle. You do understand something about power-weight ratios and different engine designs which allow more power to be put to the wheels don't you? Large unrefined (Read: cheap to manufacture) engines such as are built in the USA tend to be rather....simple ...(?) in comparison to the designs of their European and Japanese counterparts. But hey, don't let me rain on the 6.5 litre engine group.

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Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Nope, Daryus. Don't know much about the ICE's specs, actually. It just seemed to make sense that if you're combusting four times the gasoline, you're gonna get a LITTLE more power.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Omega,

You tasked me to backup the numbers I've given.

I don't recall giving ANY numbers at all, so why would I want to find proof to back up nonexistant numbers?

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"Mac asked me to look after her [Jennifer Hill] while he's in San Francisco whacking the son of a bitch who killed her husband." - Richie Ryan

"Richie ... *you're* the son of a bitch who whacked her husband!" -- Joe Dawson

"Haunted" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Well, neither did I. I simply stated that a premise assumed by many was untrue.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

No, you said that leisurely sunday driving was on the rise. You must have had numbers to come to that conclusion (unless you were using letters, but I don't know how that would work, so I'm assuming its numbers).

So, if you don't have numbers, how do you know Sunday leisurely driving is/was on the rise/stayed constant?

Because, honestly, if thats the case, it tells me everyone can afford the gas hike and this whole discussion is a moot point.

"Richie ... *you're* the son of a bitch who whacked her husband!" -- Joe Dawson

"Haunted" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Here's a minor tidbit relating to the oil/environment conundrum... sorry, but I have only the text, not a link...

Washington Times
September 28, 2000
Kenneth D. Smith. ed.

When oil companies began work on Alaska's north slope at Prudhoe Bay several decades ago, Eskimos there opposed drilling operations for fear they would frighten off the caribou and other animals on which they subsisted. "There goes our way of life," they said. "The wildlife will go away. The fish will go away."

But as Eskimo official Oliver Leavitt told Tom Carter of The Washington Times this month, the much-feared caribou diaspora never happened. Far from running out of caribou, for example, the area is now teeming with them. From just 3,000 caribou in 1970, the Central Arctic Herd pictured nearby grew to almost 20,000 as of 1999. The projects may not be the caribou's idea of Viagra, but the oil pipelines, built on surfaces elevated above the plain, do provide a platform on which animals can find relief from the clouds of mosquitoes and black flies below. Bears even walk atop the pipeline to go about their daily errands.

The 8,000 Eskimos now are so happy with the results that the Arctic Slope Regional Corp. which represents them is lobbying to open a tiny portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration and development. For them it means jobs and revenue that would allow the community to enjoy such luxuries as schools and medical facilities that citizens in the lower 48 states take for granted. For the rest of the country, it would mean less dependence on foreign oil.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

They're also excited that they're known as Inuit now. And this is a 'Washington Post' article? Are there any articles on the Japs, Charlies, Chinks, and Indians? Maybe some about the Ukes, or Negroes? I wouldn't mind learnin' more about the Slits, or the Red Skins.

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"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Agreed there. No reputable paper would use such repugnant language and refer to a people by a term that has always been considered rascist, even hundreds of years ago.

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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Go up to any person on the street. Nine of ten will not think that "Eskimo" is a racist term. I use "Inuit", but that's just because I know more about them than your average Joe. The term "nigger" wasn't considered racist until black people declared it so. Heck, some consider the term "black" racist, even though it was Malcom X who insisted that we use it.

A term is only racist when the person using it (intends to/doesn't care if they) offend someone. Lack of knowledge doesn't constitute racism.

Care to respond to the actual content, now?

JeffK:

"No, you said that leisurely sunday driving was on the rise."

No, I said that SUMMER driving was on the rise. That obviously implies driving that, for the most part, takes place in the SUMMER. You know, like vacations?

"...it tells me everyone can afford the gas hike and this whole discussion is a moot point."

No, it prooves MY point, that higher gas prices haven't done any "good", as defined by the environmental wackos.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Actually, Omega, you're mincing words. I posted (and you'll havta forgive me, 'cuz I don't know how ya'll do those quote thingys)

Me------------------
With prices up, how many people with four by
fours go on a leisurely Sunday drive? Come
on.
-------------------

And YOU, Omega, replied:

---------------
Highest gas prices in QUITE a while,
and yet there was more summer driving than
there'd been for some time, too. The
price increase didn't reduce consumption.
-----------

I say "Sunday", you said "Summer." Kind of like, I say (sound it out with me!) "pohtatoh", you say "potaehtoe" It's pretty fucking obvious we're talking about the same damn thing, so stop your "no, I said that SUMMER driving was on the rise. That obviously implies driving that, for the most part, takes place in the SUMMER. You know, like vacations?"

Now, obviously, we are talking about something different THERE. There is a very big difference between driving down some old country road with the top down just because its a nice day, and driving six hours to wherever because its your vacation. For one thing, people go on "Vacations" every year ... for birthdays, holidays, etcetra. Vacations are legitimate expenses for gasoline. Now, if you can prove that Joe-Schmoe spends an extra $15 on gas a week so he can take the top down on his Mazda Miata and go flying down an old country road for no other reason than he wants too ... well, that would be something.

Brings me to my next point:

YOU still have YET to produce a single scrap of evidence that people are consuming gasoline for these so called "vacations" and otherwise frivolous driving trips. All we've got is your word!

"Richie ... *you're* the son of a bitch who whacked her husband!" -- Joe Dawson

"Haunted" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Okay, now on to racism.

Webster's defines racism as:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

If I yell at someone "you son-of-a-bitch!" I am putting them down and insulting them, in order to make myself feel better (er, about myself, that is). I may be doing this because they've got a better car, make more money, whatever.

If I yell at someone, "hey, you slant-eye!" or "hey, you nigger!" or "hey, redskin!" I am insulting someone's heritage, in order to make me feel better about myself. It doesn't matter if *I* don't feel any of those are racist ... if the person (or ethnic group) finds the word to be racist, then, plain-and-simple, IT IS. It's not up for me to say "this is racist, this isn't."

Here's a challenge: how many racist slurs are out there for Caucasians? How would YOU feel if someone called you a "cracker" or something else?

Omega, times change. It used to be acceptable to call people "nigger." It also used to be acceptable to OWN another human being. I would hope you would recognize that that time has passed. A lot of people died here in the U.S. on both sides of that issue, it was called the "Civil War." And using "black" as a descriptive IS racist, buddy. Instead of saying, (for example), "hey, look at that man" you're saying "hey, look at that black man"

Why can't he just be "a man"?

And when Malcom X encouraged using "black", it was to discourage using "nigger." Omega, newsflash: TIMES CHANGE. What was acceptable thirty or forty years ago is NOT acceptable today.

"Richie ... *you're* the son of a bitch who whacked her husband!" -- Joe Dawson

"Haunted" - Highlander: The Series

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited October 21, 2000).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

My baby nephew is a real little cracker. But that's because he's white elitest scum. Ooh, how I hates them.

------------------
"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Er. Ah. O...k

I've got crackers. They're called "ritz"

"Richie ... *you're* the son of a bitch who whacked her husband!" -- Joe Dawson

"Haunted" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Saltene!!!

*beep*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

There's a lot of love in this room...

Everyone, kiss and make up!

------------------
Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Kiss and Make Up. Almost as harmonious a union as PB & J.

Go Ace Frehley!!!!

*beep*

mwwahahahahahaha...

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

"YOU still have YET to produce a single scrap of evidence that people are consuming gasoline for these so called "vacations" and otherwise frivolous driving trips. All we've got is your word!"

As I said, JK, "Whether you take my word for it or not is your decision, but then, of course, I can challenge you to proove that the amount of driving went DOWN this summer." I don't seem to be able to proove it, so believe what you will.

"if the person (or ethnic group) finds the word to be racist, then, plain-and-simple, IT IS."

Racism is not a quality that can be APPLIED to words. It's a state of MIND, thus being only applicable to human beings. Last time I checked, nothing else can hold a belief, or be prejudiced. I can't be racist simply by use of a certain word, if I don't intend to offend anyone by it.

"How would YOU feel if someone called you a "cracker" or something else?"

I'd say, "Huh?" And once I found out what it was, I'd just walk off. Some people are oversensitive to what others think about them.

"Why can't he just be "a man"?"

Because liberals in groups like the NAACP and "Affirmative Action" won't let them be. Black people THEMSELVES won't let themselves be, in some cases.

So now I'm racist because I recognize the differences between races when someone ELSE (in a mainstay of the liberal media, no less) brings it up? Wonderful.

"What was acceptable thirty or forty years ago is NOT acceptable today."

And why the heck not? What's changed, except the attitude of the people doing the objecting? I don't care whether it's "PC" or not. Trying to please everyone, ALL the time is simply impossible, so I'm not gonna worry about it.

As for the rest of you, thanks for laughing. This guy seems pretty humorless at times.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

"if you don't intend to offend anyone by it?"

If YOU don't intend? Sorry, bud, its not what YOU intend, its what the person/ethnic group you are talking to takes offense.

If I were to call someone a "stupid mother-loving son of a whore bitch cocksucker", and then tell them I didn't "mean to offend them", I'd still get my ass kicked.

And, Omega, its not about trying to please everyone all the time. It's about the "golden rule" -- ever heard of it? Treat others as you'd like to be treated?

Do you remember something called "segregation" which was acceptable 40 years ago? It was the belief that a people with one color skin couldn't use the same facilities as another people with different color skin. I would think (I would hope) you would be "enlightened" (smart?) enough to realize that it is a good thing that those times no longer exist, that we're trying to make the world a better place to live.

Or maybe you'd like to see segregation reinstated? I tell ya' what, if you act today, we'll even reopen Auschwitz! Today only!

Now, as for the summer driving, if you'll look at how I worded the question, I never made the assertion that summer/sunday driving was down. I based what I said on personal experiences with myself and friends/co-workers who had stopped going on leisurely Sunday drives.

To which YOU made the claim that Sunday/Summer driving was UP. And you've yet to back those numbers up, so I think its safe to say you pulled THAT out of your ass.

And, speaking of "liberals" in certain organizations, are you aware what is going on in Vermont? The civil-union that is causing such an uproar? The slogan of those opposed is "take Vermont back."

The slogan of the liberals: "take Vermont into the future."

Omega, why is it so hard to understand that using racist words (whether you find them to be racist or not) is taking America a step backwards? Let's go to the future.

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"I just came to watch the perfect Immortal die." - Methos

"I'm not..." - MacLeod

"Not what? Not the perfect Immortal? Or not going to die?" - Methos

"Forgive Us Our Tresspasses" - Highlander: The Series

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited October 22, 2000).]

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Ok, we can now come to the conclusion that:
1: We need to find a replacement for the ICE, that,
2: Doesn't cause pollution, and,
3: Doesn't offend anybody.

------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

OK, I think JK here needs to calm down and actually try to figure out what I'm saying...

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Is anyone here not white?

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

OK, Omega: what ARE you saying?

'cuz to me, it sounds like you're saying THIS: If I went to call someone a nigger, a fag, an eskimo, or what ever, they shouldn't be offended because I don't mean to offend them.

Yes or no?

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"I just came to watch the perfect Immortal die." - Methos

"I'm not..." - MacLeod

"Not what? Not the perfect Immortal? Or not going to die?" - Methos

"Forgive Us Our Tresspasses" - Highlander: The Series

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited October 22, 2000).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

You, sir, are a master of changing the subject. I wish Rob was here to deal with this. He's usually so much better at this than I am...

In fact, I don't think I'm even going to bother. That question is so loaded, it's not worthy of an answer beyond "no". You can figure out the rest.

[This message has been edited by Omega (edited October 22, 2000).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Changing the subject?

You, sir, are full of it.

I am asking you to state where you stand on what we've been talking about. You accused me of not knowing what you were talking about, and I'm offering you a chance to very clearly, state what you're talking about.

And you accuse me of changing the subject.

I'll spell it out for you: WHAT - ARE - YOUR - POSITIONS - ON - WHAT - WE'VE - BEEN - TALKING - ABOUT ?

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"I just came to watch the perfect Immortal die." - Methos

"I'm not..." - MacLeod

"Not what? Not the perfect Immortal? Or not going to die?" - Methos

"Forgive Us Our Tresspasses" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I'm actually yellow, but that's because, on weekends, I am drawn by Matt Groening.

Chris Howell was black. Tora's (I think), got some Asian blood in her (how's that for specific?), DT was a big hairy Italian-type, and Charles has a ginger beard.

------------------
"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Jew by heritage, 1/97th Japanese, part Cherokee, Mainly Sicilian & German & Qu�becois.

And I think "cracker" is just plain stupid. I much prefer term "honky."

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"Two parts slush...one part solid ice...one part hard-packed snow...a dash of assorted debris...sculpt into sphere, and serve at high velocity without warning." --Calvin

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

I like Himbo. Of course, it's non-race specific, but degrading nonetheless...

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

50% Swedish; 25% Irish; 25% German

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"I just came to watch the perfect Immortal die." - Methos

"I'm not..." - MacLeod

"Not what? Not the perfect Immortal? Or not going to die?" - Methos

"Forgive Us Our Tresspasses" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Er, aren't those all white?

And 1/97th Japanese? Jeez, are we desperate to be cool or what?

"I know, rather than coming up with a personality, I'll pretend that my great x10 grandfather might have once seen a Japanese woman's breats. That way I can get really upset whenever the H-bomb is mentioned, and make girls think I'm sensitive and stuff. This will surely lead to lots of naked, sweaty sexual sessions."

------------------
"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

The ideas of cultural history and social memory are uncharted territories to Omega.

------------------
Get going! And answer those phones, install the computer system, and rotate my office so the window faces the hills.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Let's see...

I'm 1/64 Cherokee, or something like that. Mainly German, Italian, and Scandanavian on my dad's side, and a general Brittish/Irish conglomerate on my mom's.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Bit of a history lesson here:

You ever watch a period movie set in New York about 150 years ago? All the stores have signs in them saying "Irish need not apply?"

WAAAAY back then, in the States (possibly Europe too, but I'm not 100% sure), the Irish were considered a "sub" race, much as Africans and Orientals were.

------------------
Jeff's Webcam
***
Gore/Lieberman 2000
***
"I just came to watch the perfect Immortal die." - Methos

"I'm not..." - MacLeod

"Not what? Not the perfect Immortal? Or not going to die?" - Methos

"Forgive Us Our Tresspasses" - Highlander: The Series

Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

Another one over in England was to have signs in bars saying "No dogs or Irish". Speaking as someone 100%(as far as I know) Irish, I don't feel offended by this, just vaguely amused.

------------------
"Unleash the armageddon,
So all the children go to heaven"

"Blue Skies Bring Tears"-The Smashing Pumpkins.

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Well since everybody else is sharing...

1/4th Russian. I only know that because my great-great-great grandfather is some guy named Alexander Puskin (which I'm told is some famous Russian guy).

It is interesting how a thread about gas turns into family heritgage.

------------------
Calvin: "Isn't that weird?? If computers can think, what will people be better at than machines?"
Hobbes: "Irrational behavior."
This post is sponsored in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

"Some famous guy"...heh...

Aleksandr Pushkin was only one of Russia's most beloved & wonderful poets of the 19th century.

While we're on famous folks in the family...I'm related to Einstein (like a 4- or 5-branch distant relation)& to Arthur Fleigenheimer, AKA Dutch Schultz.

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"Two parts slush...one part solid ice...one part hard-packed snow...a dash of assorted debris...sculpt into sphere, and serve at high velocity without warning." --Calvin

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

My Grandpa can fart really loud.

There, I think I've succeeded in bringing the two topics closer together.

------------------
"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."
- Tiger Woods

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

...um, my grandfather lost an ear at Normandy ... thats about the best I can do.

------------------
You wouldn't understand. It's a Jeep thing.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Did he check behind the fridge? I lost Depth Charge's gun once, and it was there. Lord knows how, since I don't regularly take Transformers with me when I get milk.

------------------
"If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there it would've been like Woodstock. I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move." - Spike

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

He's baaaaack...

Since we're sharing, Scots-Irish-German-Welsh-English-Polish-Iroquois.
(although I only found out about the Iroquois part last week, - mom found an error in her genealogy - it's possibly on more than one branch of the family tree, and already likely higher in the rankings than either Polish or Welsh.)

If certain terms such as the dreaded "n-word" are so offensive... pray explain the reasoning behind people of that particular group using that term to describe themselves in their music and popular entertainment?

Once again, words are not 'bad,' in and of themselves, any more than books , movies, or any kind of information is 'bad.'

'Bad'-ness is in intent, and action. It always has been, and it always will be.

I mean, I could call you a psychofragulated tubloidial framitzammer, too. Does that mean anything to you?

Words actually, in and of themselves, MEAN very little. Take the overuse of the word "brother." Brother has a very definite meaning: male sibling. But Freemasons, people with "brethren"-ish churches, and People-Of-Mid-Northern-To-Mid-Lower-Latitude-African-And-Sometimes-Elsewhere-Origin (just striving for accuracy here) call each other 'brother' on a daily basis all the time in the USA, even if their tribes of origin are busy slaughtering each other in the ancestral homeland.

Offense can even be taken at innocuous words, perhaps moved by innuendo (or the recipient's inherent insecurities), You mother-loving pie-eater.

------------------
"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

And all of the above posts were brought to you by

Exxon, polluting the world for your children, so you don't have to.

------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Irish, but descended mainly from the interaction of elements in the cores of dying stars and in supernova remnants.
I also have some beta-decay in me, and I'm nearly sure my great-great grandmother (on my brother's side, now) was a hydrocarbon suspended in a vapour state, even though I'd rather not talk about that part of l'histiore la famille.

Famous relations?

A cousin of mine was one of the primary constituents of the Bos�-Einstein condensate that gluons were supposed to have been seen in last year.

I heard somewhere that I'd a pure element in me from like centuries ago that could have been chlorine!!
(reminds of the stories my father still tells us from time to time, about my mother being about as inert as neon when they first met - arf!)

Apparently my grandfather was a colleague of many of Winston Churchill's farts.

->>back to the bashing<<-

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Remember December '59
The howling wind and the driving rain,
Remember the gallant men who drowned
On the lifeboat, Mona was her name.