So, what are the differences between socialists and communists and their two political ideals? Thanks.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Continuing to boldly go ...
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"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
Communism: 1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R. b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively
Socialism: 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
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What did it mean to you
An early chat with death
To pull your body for a moment from your soul
--
Camper Van Beethoven
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Gonna donate half my money to the city.
Communism is the system in which there IS no system. It's effectively anarchy, but anarchy in which everyone loves everyone else, so there's no problem. Sounds great, but ain't gonna happen on THIS Earth.
Socialism, at its heart, is the system in which the government tries to enforce equity by controling EVERY-freakin'-THING. How much you get paid for your job, how much food you get per day, everything. Now there are differing brands of socialism (Trotsky, Mao, etc.), but the general idea remains the same.
They both supposedly spring from the philosophy, "From each according to his ability, and to each according to his need." Other than that, there are few similarities. One is no government at all, the other's an all powerful government. It's kinda funny, that Marx thought that one was a stepping-stone to the other, when you'd have to jump across the whole spectrum to get there.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
Oh, and fuck capitalism.
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Communism. Who wouldn't like their neighbour thrown into a goulag?
Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.
Or am I misreading something?
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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
You got a better workable system, I'd love to hear about it.
Tim:
Pretty well, yeah. At least, they claimed that they wanted to go communist, but you know none of their dictators would have stepped down willingly.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
Any country that doesn't have people getting paid 10,000,000 to put a ball through a hoop, and millions of people lined up in gutters eating maggot infested sandwiches.
Any system that can adequately provide for it's poor.
Any system in which the distribution of private property is equal, so Mr. Gates doesn't get 8 yachts, while Jim Stock, a recently downsized construction worker gets a torn pair of jeans. With shit stains on them, no less.
Any system which doesn't encourage me versus you, and, preferably, me over you.
Unfortunately, due to human nature and greed, communism will never work.
Not due to any inherent flaw in the system, just a flaw in the people.
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Communism. Who wouldn't like their neighbour thrown into a goulag?
Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.
There will NEVER be equity. Get used to it. There will always be poor. Get over it.
Again, you're only taking what you're fed, and not studying for yourself. We may have the highest disparity between rich and poor, but who defines rich and poor? Is this the difference between Bill Gates and some monk who's taken a vow of poverty? Define it. Then you have to take into account that we have FEWER poor. You automatically assume that the US is horrible, and that therefore capitalism doesn't work. THINK for yourself. Please.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
"Poor" in the USA means you don't have cable or a microwave.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
Actually, it isn't just that communism will never happen. It wouldn't be good if someone tried it. The way people are, if they tried to live in a communist society, the whole thing would collapse. It's just like anarchy. If people could live peacefully together, anarchy would be perfect. But, if you try to implement it when people aren't ready for it, they just end up robbing/maiming/killing/raping each other. Hopefully not all at once. Or in that order...
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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
quote:
Again, you're only taking what you're fed, and not studying for yourself.
Why, of course I am. I'm not agreeing with you, and so I must be a sheep. I have no free will, or independant thought.
Dude, Omega, just because I have a different viewpoint than yours doesn't mean I'm spoon fed, and only regurgitate what I've heard. Trust me. I hate what is told where I am right now.
Also, I think you're the most arrogantly hypocritical person I've ever had the opportunity to meet. It's unfortunate that you've been so jaded so early, that you can't even see what you are yourself. It's quite disgusting, and more involving than it should be, so I'm just not going to pay attention anymore.
quote:
You automatically assume that the US is horrible
When did I say this? Why did you ASSUME I was talking about the USA? I could've, for all your high-and-mightiness, been talking about England. I find the USA a very nice neighbour to have to the south.
My dad picks me up nice college team fitted hats when he travels to Wichita, and I like that. For the most part, I don't spend enough time thinking about the US to believe it's horrible. You're just the USA. I've got homework that's more important to me.
quote:
THINK for yourself. Please.
Okay, just for you:
Christianity is THE WAY.
Liberals are uninformed, stupid, ignorant bastards.
Conservatism is the only way to go.
Tennessee kicks major ass.
I think girls are icky.
There, I think like you. Now, at least, you'll not blame me for not thinking for myself, because what you think is the real way.
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Communism. Who wouldn't like their neighbour thrown into a goulag?
Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.
If you're gonna fib, at least make it a fib not so easily caught.
"Any system which doesn't encourage me versus you, and, preferably, me over you."
That would be all competetive AND merit-based systems.
In other words, you oppose life, which is inherently competetive and survival of the fittest in all its aspects.
You therefore also hate sports, which, at least, is cool.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited November 17, 2000).]
And high school jocks. I hate them too.
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Communism. Who wouldn't like their neighbour thrown into a goulag?
Please vote for the Communist Party of Canada This November 27th.
Omega, have you ever heard of the saying, You eventually become what you hate. Your "spoon-fed" statements have you pegged. The good thing is that your non adaptiveess will eventually die out in your family line. By refusing to concede on a single point does not make you right.
Who here remembers, or remembers of hearing of, the days when people did things for the benefit of others? It has been a long while.
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**...****...**
Rather insular there aren't we?
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
I hate players who complain about "salary caps" in one sentance then talk about playing for "the love of the game."
::snort::
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Continuing to boldly go ...
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Continuing to boldly go ...
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**...****...**
As for my "spoon-feeding" comments, I would point out that I actually show the flaws in your arguments, and THEN state that you're not thinking about what you say. You just assume that I'm not thinking because I say what others say. I think there's a difference, here.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
JeffK has a point, about your beliefs not having been challenged as of yet. Not that this is your fault, for you are young, so, in time, you will have revelations. These revelations will be in the form of injustices done to you for the most part, and to your friends.
I was very pro gun, hunting since I was a little kid, weapons expert in the Army. Now, I dispise pistols (hand guns) and assualt rifles. Why? Ever use one in anger. If not, don't question it. Hunting rifles and shotguns are okay, if used for their purpose, deer, elk, rabbit, duck, etc....
[Gee, I am in the center again!!!!]
Let's talk in, say, 10 years. You maybe a drunkin' drug addict that voted for Hillary Clinton. Don't laugh and don't say it won't happen. IDIC mean anything to you? No, you're young, and it's true.
They say shit happens, and it does.
May wisdom become yours Omega.
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**...****...**
quote:
There will NEVER be equity. Get used to it. There will always be poor. Get over it.
That has to be the most depressing thing I've ever heard anyone say. I gather you all got started here through liking Star Trek, which among other things celebrates the nature of man in that he tries to change his environment for the better. I don't see how anyone can say that unless, as some of you blokes are suggesting, there's something seriously wrong with your worldview, Omega. But thats not for me to say.
Fact is, you may be right, humankind will never achieve true equality. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, and that doesn't mean we can't make things a lot better than how they are right now.
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"I do prefer the arse, but you can't dismiss the leg. They're joined at the hip, so to speak."
- Liam Kavanagh
Some of this can be seen already. Available access to the Internet has begin to equalize people in ways that were never before possible, though it's just a start.
Star trek has no poor because everyone can be equally provided for by cheap energy and replicator technology which can create complex substances from raw elements. We HAVE the ability to generate sufficient quantities of cheap energy, though not the desire. Replicators, I fear, are still a ways off. But when anybody can go grab some basic chemical elements and convert them to a full-course turkey dinner, or a new stereo system... what's left?
Since money will most likely be repllicable (it's not all that complex), we'll have to go to a credit/merit system. And THAT means: Those who produce more will get more, and those who produce nothing... will probably still be able to get enough.
The problem then will be that 'enough' isn't good enough for SOME people. They'll want everything you and I produced very hard to get, without any of the effort. These people will be the new criminal class.
And so the ball rolls on...
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
OK, I can live with that. Fine so far.
quote:
The problem then will be that 'enough' isn't good enough for SOME people. They'll want everything you and I produced very hard to get, without any of the effort. These people will be the new criminal class.
Mmm... Just so long as you don't lump ALL the poor (but still provided for) together. Your right, probably can't stop there being such a bunch of people. Doesnt mean we shouldn't try to help the rest of them.
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"I do prefer the arse, but you can't dismiss the leg. They're joined at the hip, so to speak."
- Liam Kavanagh
But those without Internet access are farther behind than ever.
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"The distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
--Albert Eistein
But for a lot of countires, cheap/free internet access isn't as easy an option as it is in the US. And people who don't speak English are also at a huge disadvantage.
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"If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there it would've been like Woodstock. I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move." - Spike, BtVS
Just kidding.
Bass Ale is also from the UK ... =)
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The Dominion has been defeated, but the hardest job will be building the peace ...
Join Cpt. Connor H. Macy and the crew of the USS Tokyo as they attempt to forge the bonds of trust ...
Which has the added bonus of coming with me attached.
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
Seriously, though, I'm just kidding. I find this whole "my country rocks your sucks!" attitude totally demeaning.
Not to mean I don't think that the US isn't a great country, but it doesn't mean I don't think that other counties aren't better in some aspects than we are.
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The Dominion has been defeated, but the hardest job will be building the peace ...
Join Cpt. Connor H. Macy and the crew of the USS Tokyo as they attempt to forge the bonds of trust ...
------------------
"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
Bass Ale! Yum! =)
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The Dominion has been defeated, but the hardest job will be building the peace ...
Join Cpt. Connor H. Macy and the crew of the USS Tokyo as they attempt to forge the bonds of trust ...
You've drunk pisswater until you've had Castlemaine quad-X from Queensland.
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"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much."
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"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
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"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
I'm also partial to CiderJack (Raspberry, yum!)
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The Dominion has been defeated, but the hardest job will be building the peace ...
Join Cpt. Connor H. Macy and the crew of the USS Tokyo as they attempt to forge the bonds of trust ...