.
quote:
One's socialist, and disregards the rule of law whenever it's inconvenient. It lies to its constituants, and divides the people against each other.The other's capitalist, and respects the law and the truth above all else. It tries to unite people.
Just what similarities do you see?
As you can imagine, I nearly choked to death laughing. Do you yanks really see it this way? If so, Id suggest you look outside yer own borders once in awhile and see what things are really like.
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
This is Omega we're talking about ... and we all know he's off in a world of his own =)
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
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Frank's Home Page
"I remember my mum telling me 'don't wear that jacket, it doesn't go with your top.' And I said 'Screw you mum, I'll wear what I'll like'. And then I went and changed tops." - Liam Ka--thingy
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
Oh, and pool tables too.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
The Otto Bar in Baltimore is a good place for that. OW! my head hurts.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
Well, scratch the second-hand marijuana smoke. Makes me paranoid. "Hey, that's *MY* beer!"
I mean, I don't know what kind of parties *you're* talking about, but whats a party without beer?
Don't worry -- you'll understand once you turn 21. "Where's the kegger? Woohoo!"
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
And they are your descriptions, back them up.
Well, Gore did this and Clinton did that. Big freakin deal, Nixon did that and North did this.
The Republicans are not but little angels running around the forrest tapping beavers with a magic wand...which is about how stupid your descriptions are.
The broad strokes of Omega once again paint a picture of his intellectual quackery.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
Then why are they keeping company with that Duke guy?
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
Oh, yeah, he's modest also.......
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**...****...**
Like Jay implied....you'd think there would be a large number of shades of grey (well infinite...)...
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Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
I think what Omega describes is not democrats and Republicans, but rather liberals and conservatives, especially the ones that exist today(yeah, they change over time). They aren't accurate descriptions, in any case.
Liberals have socialistic tendencies, but they're not socialists. Some liberals disregard the rule of law(I think what we're seeing in Florida is a good example), but not all of them, and certainly not a majority. The ones with a chance to gain power, maybe.
Conservatives are generally capitalistic, but they aren't the only ones. Many of them do respect the rule of law, but there are also very corrupt conservatives too with a desire for power.
I guess this is less a defense of Omega, but more of telling Omega that he's as close as he is far off. And lighten up on Omega, yeah he's arrogant, but he's also a teenager too. We're all so sure of ourselves at that age .
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"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
Muwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Yes, let me say that most liberals (including myself) are not very happy about what is going on regarding the Florida elections ... grrr ... (I'm voting Nader in '04)
And, now I'm off to Connecticut. Laters!
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited November 21, 2000).]
I don't believe in false modesty. It ain't arrogance if you can really do it.
But perhaps I should clarify what I was talking about, specifically. As I've said before, most democrats are simply (un/mis)informed. My cousin, for instance, supported Gore, simply because she didn't like Bush. Why didn't she like Bush? Well, because he's going to outlaw abortion! Just one problem: he's going to do no such thing. Uninformed democrat. Or for another example, whoever it was here that was talking about how horrible the eighties were, because the disparity between rich and poor increased. He/She wasn't aware that the actual NUMBERS of poor dropped dramatically. The majority of people who vote democrat do so because they simply don't know any better.
What these descriptions refer to are ACTIVIST democrats. People like Hillary Clinton, and Al Gore, and all the Democrats in the state congress in my state. People who actually BELIEVE this crap. THESE are the dangerous ones, because they honestly think they're doing the right thing with all they do to get elected. How else do you explain all the lies the DNC tells in commercials in attepmts to gain power? How else do you explain the fear-mongering, and divisive tactics? The attempts to keep the populace ignorant? The will to break the law whenever convenient?
These people actually think that the country isn't going to survive without their philosophy, and thus they're willing to do whatever it takes to get elected. With B. Clinton, it was personal power and women (he actually said that the best part of being governor was the chicks). With H. Clinton and Algore, they honestly believe they're doing the right thing, which is probably the nicest thing I'll ever say about them.
It's a theory, and it explains the facts. Anyone got a hole in it, or a better theory? 'Cause I'd love not to have to think this about the DNP. I simply don't see that I have much choice.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
quote:
Some liberals disregard the rule of law but not all of them, and certainly not a majority
Balance that aginst:
quote:
Many of them (conservatives) do respect the rule of law, but there are also very corrupt conservatives too
See? That's almost EXACTLY THE SAME SENTENCE! BUT in a very weighted way - "liberals break the law" leads to hurried qualification that not ALL do, while "conservatives obey the law" is followed by a grudging admission that not all do.
As for the Omega Molecule...
quote:
The majority of people who vote Democrat do so because they simply don't know any better
But of course all Republicans do. From Coast to Coast, ask any GOP'er and he/she/it'll be able to argue politics in a way that puts Omygod to shame!
He then goes on to slam Democrat politicos because they believe in what they do. Are you demonstrating double standards (Republicans also believe in what they do, but that's different)? Or are you saying Republicans are best because they DON'T really believe in what they do?
(If the latter, I'd day you need some new party nicknames - how about Fanatics versus Cynics?)
If you extrapolate that reasoning, you come to the conclusion that people can't be trusted with democratic power, and that other parties shouldn't be necessary because all they do is confuse people. Boom, one-party state. But of course Republicans wouldn't do that, they're in the business of (to use a Thatcherite term) rolling back the power of the state. And Nixon wasn't trying to subvert the democratic process at all.
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"I do prefer the arse, but you can't dismiss the leg. They're joined at the hip, so to speak."
- Liam Kavanagh
Did I say that? I don't think so. There may be a lot of uninformed Republicans out there, and they do annoy me. It's kinda like going to church because your parents always took you. But the thing is that no one that votes is completely uninformed. They all have some sort of reasoning behind it. With the !I (that's uninformed, for those of you who don't code) dems, what little information they have is based on info supplied by, say, a DNC commercial, which we all know are full of lies. Witness "wither on the vine". But with the !I GOPs, what little they know is at least based on the truth. There's no excuse for being uninformed, but at least the uninformed Reps are getting in right.
"He then goes on to slam Democrat politicos because they believe in what they do."
Weeellll, considering what they do is disregard the law whenever convenient, lie to people, divide the populace, etc., I'd say they SHOULD be slammed for doing what they do, wouldn't you? Believing it's right, and that the ends justify the means, just makes it worse.
"Or are you saying Republicans are best because they DON'T really believe in what they do?"
No, I'm saying that the GOP is the better party because of what they do, not because of whether they believe it or not.
We all know how the democrats act. My extrapolation of their beliefs is simply an explaination of WHY.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
There is nothing more dangerous than a well-intentioned man who believes that he's doing the right thing.
As for who's informed, and who isn't.
I admit freely, when I was a Democrat, I was uninformed. I joined at 18 because it SOUNDED good, and I thought it was pretty much expected of me, as a young person.
Then I started working, gaining real-world experience, and paying attention to the real world, and interacting with knowledgeable people, and accumulating data.
At 29, I'm now, by most standards, possibly one of the most well-informed people on here, by virtue of my job, information access and retreival, etc. I have access to varied sources on current events, politics, science, sociology, psychology, religion, et cetera. This is no brag, it is simply a fact, that I think most of you folks could agree with without too much difficulty (at least I would hope so). And as a consequence, of all this onformation, my viewpoints have changed.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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And keep your foot off that blasted samoflanche!
As a point of interest, most of Omega's arguments (about people believing one thing because they aren't informed, or because they swallow lies) can be thrown right back at him over his views on, say, how old the Earth is.
There would be a difference there though (scientific laws vs a more subjective opinion of what you want from a government), but it's shows your stance on everything Omega. You believe something, and anyone else who believe something else is wrong, because (obviously) they haven't read enough, or they believe the "wrong" things.
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
Where would you place me? I vote an independent ticket, in that I vote for both Reps and Dems. Am I half informed? Half blind to the truth? Or do you think that maybe I view the entire spectrum and vote for the person best suited for an office?
Just think, in 10 years you may be the mirror image of First........
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**...****...**
Liberalism and conservativism are idealogical mindsets- Republican and Democrat are just party names.
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"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
um....oh *sheepish look*
That didn't sound very lady-like did it?
*ahem*
Runs out of thread embarrassed!
NOT!
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Hunt: "You cheated!"
Rhade: "It's only cheating if you get caught."
-Andromeda, "Double Helix"
Now, I'm just simple minded because I disagree with the conservatives.
I'll tell you briefly where my progressivism comes from. I belive strongly that the person, the human being that we are and the other species that inhabit the earth along with us come before private, and generally selfish, personal monetary gain.
I believe that conservatism tends toward exclusion of people who do not belong to its "club." I do not see conservatism as inclusive, rather I see it as one of the main reasons behind social and cultural stratification.
I disagree with much of the agenda of the right as it moves to strenghten their percieved moral hegemony in the United States.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited November 21, 2000).]
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
Omega, aren't you doing the same thing your accusing Dems, ACTIVIST Dems, of. You feel that everything you spout and stand for is the best for everybody????
So, you, by your own definition, are an ACTIVIST Republican. Correct? Or do you not feel that your way is the best way for everybody.
If you do not feel that your way is the right way for everybody, then why do you spout so much???
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**...****...**
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
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**...****...**
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Rated 7 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
I even went to a worker's rights rally.
Again Omega, you couldn't support your initial statement of all Democrats being stupid law ignoring simpletons...so now you say activists. Not just that, but elected activists. Oh, ok.
You keep doing the Texas backstep.
Those who vote active.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited November 21, 2000).]
I needed a standard for Omega and I to use for this activist democrat, and what exactly his meaning was on it.
By his definition, activist democrat is so he can keep his party alligence and make himslef feel better about being a certain party. His definition is biased, for he neglects to see that people in 'his' party are as bad/good as the one he disdains.
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**...****...**
You seem to misunderstand me. I'm not saying that being an activist is bad. I'm describing liberal Democrat activists, and stating that they're dangerous.
JK:
I don't need to get a definition from ANYWHERE. I'm trying to tell you what I was talking about when I made the statement in question.
Jay:
"Again Omega, you couldn't support your initial statement of all Democrats being stupid law ignoring simpletons"
A statement which I never made.
But since none of you show no interest in finding out what I was actually talking about, screw the lot of you. Daryus made a big mistake by posting this without even knowing what I was talking about. I would also point out that I did NOT give him authorization to quote me from a private conversation. I simply thought that for once, we might have a chance of having a rational discussion around here, so I didn't complain.
Someone lock this thread. One thing I will not abide by is my own words being twisted, or my intelligence insulted by people claiming to know what I meant when I said something, when they don't even know the context.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
quote:
. One thing I will not abide by is my own words being twisted, or my intelligence insulted by people claiming to know what I meant when I said something, when they don't even know the context.
...and what's the difference between this, and what you do?
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
I don't think that I am misunderstanding you, really, but I might be.
Anybody that tries to have their beliefs turned in to a law that effects millions of people is dangerous, no matter what the party. Heck, you can drop that to just a few people being affected.
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**...****...**
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
One's socialist, and disregards the rule of law whenever it's inconvenient. It lies to its constituants, and divides the people against each other."
You didn't say that? Or are you trying to weasel out of your statement? Did Daryus misquote you?
And as to your "A statement which I never made" crap, go read your dictionary and look up paraphrase.
You made a stupid comment that you can't at all defend, much like your general political theories and now you want the thread locked. Intersting.
You've had plenty of opportunity to explain for your own self what you mean, and you can't do it. Or if you can then you write your own post and tell everyone in no uncertain terms and with examples to back it up what you mean.
So stop crying. Oh, wait, you didn't say you were crying...sorry for twisting your words there boyo.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
Why don't you go look up paraphrase? I'm pretty sure it doesn't contain provisions for actually changing the meaning of that phrase being shortened.
As for the quote, Daryus is quoting me out of context. We were discussing the political parties, not the voters that support them. There's a difference.
I meant what I said. The democratic party is socialist, and is willing to do whatever is nessesary to win, be it lie, break the law, or legislate from a court room.
Now that I've repeated what I was quoted as saying at the beginning of this infernal thread, someone lock the darned thing. Anyone who doesn't get it in language that simple never will.
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"You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..."
- Fraser, "due South"
Aren't the political parties made up of the people that support/vote them?
Sorry, 2 questions.....
How can a party do something without its members/supporters being a part of it, for with no members/supporters, there is no party?
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**...****...**
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"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much."
quote:
paraphrase \Par"a*phrase\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Paraphrased; p. pr. & vb. n. Paraphrasing.] To express, interpret, or translate with latitude; to give the meaning of a passage in other language.
Moving on.
"I meant what I said. The democratic party is socialist, and is willing to do whatever is nessesary to win, be it lie, break the law, or legislate from a court room."
Back it up Homeslice!
Prove to me that Democrats are willing to eat their own children to win an election AND prove to me that that is a natural path of progressivism AND prove to me that the Republican party does not do so.
Otherwise you're full of, um, pooh.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited November 22, 2000).]
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited November 22, 2000).]
You say that like it's is a new behavior.
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What did it mean to you
An early chat with death
To pull your body for a moment from your soul
--
Camper Van Beethoven
****
Read chapter TWO of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Now with 30% more plot.
P.S. I'd be quite willing to post the entire conversation at a later date, if Omega-san agrees. And just in case you were wondering, this wasn't an attempt to make him look stupid, just a starting point for what I'd hoped would be a discussion about -what I consider- to be a skewed view.
Anyhow.
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.