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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>USS Vanguard</b> <br /><small>Member # 130</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I heard a number of news agencies compare today as the "worst act of Terrorism since Pearl Harbor". Now in my humble opion the two events have but one thing in common. People die. Two if you count the fact that airplanes were involved. Beyond that, I fail to grasp the link. <p>Pearl Harbor was a tactical military strike, one of genius even. The targets were military ships and planes, the attackers were military aircraft. This was an act of war between two distinct nation-states. A surprise attack, yes, but hardly an act of terrorism.<p>TODAY, well i don't even feel like I have to repeat today's events. But the fact remains, I have a real problem comparing it with Pearl Harbor. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MeGotBeer</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,7,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:07 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A day of infamy. <p>Mostly just in the shock, I think. They're not actually comparing the two because of the similarities in how the attacks were carried out, but because of the complete <i>shock</i> they've caused.<p>Another important difference, is that the Japanese at least attacked legitimate, military targets. <p>Those responsible for these attacks focused their efforts on civilian targets -- even the Pentagon, which employs a large number of civilian employees.<p>But, yes, I understand the comparison. Before Pearl Harbor, we Americans were very complacent ... divided, also, over the War on either sides. After the attack, like after this attack, we are united (anyone else see the Congress singing "America the Beautiful?") IMHO, the comparison is VERY valid.<p>[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: MeGotBeer ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>USS Vanguard</b> <br /><small>Member # 130</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I agree with that. The shock caused are VERY similar in both instances. HOWEVER, i disagreed with the words, "Worse act of terrorism since Pearl Harbor" (which were the exact words several news sources have used) in which the implied comparison is that Pearl Harbor was also an act of terrorism and thus the two events were equivalent in how they were carried out. That is something I don't agree with. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MeGotBeer</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:27 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In ways, the Japanese attack was one of terror. It was intended to terrorize the American people, to keep the US out of a war with Japan. Because war hadn't yet been declared by the Japanese on the U.S., it was also particularly cowardly (although, in all fairness to the Japanese, it was their incompetance of their Embassy Staff which led to that). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>USS Vanguard</b> <br /><small>Member # 130</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, yes it was of terror, but not quite the samet thing as attacking a civilian office building. More along the lines of look how powerful militarily we are, you'd better not attack us sort of thing. I really shouldn't make any broad statements on Pearl Harbor as I'm no expert, but having studied the attack(on the history channel no less) that was the conclusion i came to. not necessarily correct. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,21,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Right. This was an order of magnitude WORSE than Pearl Harbor.<p>Therefore, our response, once we have uncovered those responsible, should be an order of magnitude more than what we visited upon the Japanese.<p>Picture that, if you want a good nightmare tonight. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Balaam Xumucane</b> <br /><small>Member # 419</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,11,23,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 11, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:32 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> ...If, in fact, there was a nation-state behind the attack. The point being that right now we don't know. It could have been an act of domestic terrorism and we don't know. Do we nuke Topeka? In Pearl Harbor we had an admittedly clever (and nearly successful) preemptive strike by the aggressive military of a definable empire to cripple American military capacity in the Pacific. The terror was a secondary effect of the strategic element of surprise.<p>By contrast, today's attack was pure terror directed at economic and military command targets. This attack was obviously intended as a message to the leaders and population of the United States that we are indeed vulnerable. The war-capacity-type strategic impact would be minimal. Whomever was responsible must have had remarkable resources to put towards this operation. Several skilled pilots, and effective crowd control personnel capable of bypassing security and willing to forfeit their lives would need to train extensively to put a plan like this into effect. This isn't strapping a bomb onto a fanatic and setting them loose in a crowd. There are a limited number of potential suspect organizations who would have the resources and professionalism to execute this attack. We need to figure out who has actually done it. Then and only then can we talk about appropriate and measured retribution.<p>[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Vogon Poet</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,6,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, Pearl Harbour a work of genius? I'm not so sure. For one thing you had the buggeration factor - the carriers were out at sea - and another, they were too clever for their own good, by leaving the tank farms intact under the assumption they'd be invading in about two days and wanted the fuel for themselves. . . <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Daryus Aden</b> <br /><small>Member # 12</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,6,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That & the fact that attacking the USA was downright suicide to begin with. I wonder which idiot had the first spark of that thought. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Obese Penguin</b> <br /><small>Member # 271</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,7,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:20 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Pearl Harbor has two sides , the Military side and the Symbolic side. <p>This WTC Attack is the Pearl Harbor for this generation because of the symbolism involved and because of how the American people reacted. <p>Pearl Harbor brought the world war into Americas backyard , showed America that this WAS theyre war , that Hitler and the Empire of Japan would nto stop with Europe and Asia and that they must be stopped. Back in 1941 they attacked our Navy , a symbol of the reach of this country.<p>The World Trade Center attack has brought the horror that Isreal and the West Bank face almost on a weekly basis. And not only was the WTC hit , but the Pentagon , the seat of American Military might now has a huge gash in its side.<p>These attacks are also similar in the reaction they caused among the American people. <p>They inspired outrage , fear , a lust for vengence and a new a awareness , both for our world neighbors and our countrymen.<p>[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Obese Penguin ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Michael_T</b> <br /><small>Member # 144</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,8,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, there's no worse place to piss people off than New Yorkers.... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MeGotBeer</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,9,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:04 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>That & the fact that attacking the USA was downright suicide to begin with<hr></blockquote><p>Well, the Japanese wanted to hit us hard enough that we'd be scared of our body-count if we went to war with them. Their goal wasn't to provoke us into war, but to keep us out of war with them. <p>Er. Obviously, it failed. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,10,36,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:36 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It always will, too.<br />Ask Metallica.<p>"DON'T TREAD ON ME"<p>"Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail<br />Once you provoke her, rattling of her tail<br />Never begins it, never, but once engaged...<br />Never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage <p>Don't tread on me <p>So be it <br />Threaten no more<br />To secure peace is to prepare for war<br />So be it <br />Settle the score<br />Touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore... <p>Don't tread on me <p>Love it or live it, she with the deadly bite<br />Quick is the blue tongue, forked as lighting strike<br />Shining with brightness, always on surveillance<br />The eyes, they never close, emblem of vigilance <p>Don't tread on me <p>So be it <br />Threaten no more<br />To secure peace is to prepare for war<br />So be it <br />Settle the score<br />Touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore... <p>Don't tread on me <p>So be it<br />Threaten no more<br />To secure peace is to prepare for war <p>Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail<br />Once you provoke her, rattling on her tail <p>So be it <br />Threaten no more<br />To secure peace is to prepare for war<br />So be it<br />Settle the score<br />Touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore... <p>Don't tread on me"<p><br />That pretty much sums up the attitude I've been hearing. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,12,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Oh fine, I says to myself. I won't make fun of Metallica. Or even Poison. What about this, though?<p>[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Sol System ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,12,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> And then I go and forget to add a this! Unfortunately, I can't seem to find anything appropriate. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>USS Vanguard</b> <br /><small>Member # 130</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,15,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Alright, maybe not genius, but you must realize that every military engagement has a tactical and a strategic side. Pearl harbor was a strategic failure, as it failed to fully incapacitate the US Navy (the carriers) and thus, was a very stupid thing to do as any history student will tell you. Tactically, it was a undeniable success. A very large and complex aerial attack was carried out with near complete surprise upon the enemy inflicting heavy damage.<p>but i digress. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Da_bang80</b> <br /><small>Member # 528</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,20,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The attacks on the WTC could be compared to Pearl Harbour in the fact that almost everyone knows what happend and when. Even if you weren't alive at the time. I'll remember this day for the rest of my life. 60 years down the line. i'll tell my great grandkids about this. and remind them that we don't live in a perfect world. and that there are alot of people out there who would harm you in a second if they had a chance. even if they didn't know you. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Obese Penguin</b> <br /><small>Member # 271</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,8,12,20,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">September 12, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:49 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Simply put , this is a flash point in the history of the United States and as so many people have said , this is our generations wake up call, like Pearl Harbor for our grand fathers and Vietnam or the 60 for that matter in the case of our parents. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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