they dont know what the second one is, possibly an 'airbus' of some sort.

6 reported dead. over 1000 injured.
 

Earlier this morning a hijacked airline COLLIDED with the tower of the World Trade Center. Approximatly a few minutes later, ON LIVE TELEVISION, a 2nd, even larger airliner collided with the other tower. Both towers are currently smoking with gaping holes on all sides. Reports now say 6 dead and 1000 injured, but I find this numbers extremely sketchy.

My God ladies and gentlemen...what has begun here?
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

A bomb has exploded at the PENTAGON's heli-port about 2 minutes ago and a large section of the building is now on fire.

Wait...apparently, now they claim that ANOTHER plane was the cause of this fire at the Pentagon...
 

this is horrible.
 

The Southern Tower of the World Trade Center has just COLLAPSED to the ground!

I'm......speechless.....
 

One of the buildings collapsing.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

And entire side of the Pentagon has been blackened and is partially collapsed from fire and the plane collission.

ALL planes have been grounded nationwide. The US Air Force is enforcing a NO-FLY Zone over New York City, with fully armed F/A-18s and F-15s. ALl major government buildings nationwide are being evacuated. The Sears Tower in Chicago has been evacuated.
 

Wake me up now...
 

I hope the people who organized this die.

just in: a good part of the pentagon has collapsed

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Wes1701E ]

Fox and CNN report.
 

Also, another report says a 747 has gone down in Pennsylvania.

All international flights are being diverted to Canada.
 

Hijack plane en route to ?? (washington?), persued by fighters.

cnn.com is overloaded.
 

Also a report of a United Airlines plane crashed into Camp David

NOTE: Today is the anniversary of the Camp David Accords.
 

All planes are being diverted to Canada.

If a terrorist is on board one of those planes which is on the way to Canada, expect the First Canadian Place to be the first target.
 

I can't get into any news site for more than a minute.
 

It will probably be known as the worst day in history.
 

The plane that crashed in Somerset, Pennsylvania was a 747 jumbo jet going from New York to Chicago (or the other way around, it's not confirmed yet).

The Camp David report has been called as false.
 

I am now scared shitless.

I can't stop shaking...

There are few things like waking up to see the World Trade Center collapse on TV to really, really shake you up.

This is not good.

This is not good at all.
 

The plane that crashed on its way to Chicago... the Sears Tower, perhaps?

They seem to be going after office structures, mainly.

Two hit the WTC.
One hit the Pentagon, with an attempt at another.
One apparently hit the West Wing.
One may have been going for the Sears Tower.
One tried to hit Camp David.

Seven planes.

I'd watch Denver. It's got the highest concentration of federal buildings outside of DC itself. Bush is probably going to be in the air for quite some time.
 

I just found out about this a little bit ago -- a kid in my Intro Theater class was talking about some planes crashing into the World Trade Center, but I thought they were little Cessnas or something. Then I go to the lounge at the Union, and some techs are setting up TVs ... one of 'em happened to be turned to CNN. There was a crowd of us clustered around the TV.

I left school immediately. I've got friends and family in DC, and friends in downtown New York who I am really worried for and about. So far, I haven't been able to get in touch with any of them.

(If I was the first one to begin this thread, I would've titled it "Fuck 'em")
 

Newark is in NJ near New York. I think you're thinking of Dulles, which is from where one of the planes took off. That's in Virginia.
 

Dulles.
Logan.
Newark.
BWI.

Three of them have played roles in this attack.
 

Right now there is no report as to where Air Force One is currently at. Air Force One was airbone soon after the first attack, and since it took off, no one knows where it is heading, or if it is even going to land. Air Force One is capable of staying airborne "indefinatly". Congress has also been moved to their secure classified location.
 

General Clark apparently says that Bin Laden is the only one with the resources to do this. Anyone want to start a betting pool on how much longer he has to live?

I fully expect Airforce 1 to land only long enough to move the president to NEACP. He'd be far better equiped to deal with anything from there.

Is there any way we can find out the status of other flights? Are all commercial flights down yet?
 

As for Bin Laden, he also made a comment a few weeks ago about an upcoming terrorist attack of an unprecedented scale against the U.S. infastructure.

Speaking of whom, we couldn't find him after the Cole. We bombed the wrong targets in our hurry to get him (thanks, CIA). All this will do is harden our resolve to get him, but I don't know that it means we will get him.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: MeGotBeer ]

And I don't CARE.

September 11th is the new "Day which will live in infamy." We are at WAR, people, whether we've declared it or not, THEY have. And this war will be harder to fight... at least Pearl Harbor's attackers had an obvious home base to attack. These little mobile cowards will be harder to flush out.

But we have to do it. Such a craven, hideous act cannot go unpunished. We must find the mastermind (I'm betting on BinLaden), and pull out his entrails on global satellite TV. Send in the SEALS, or the Rangers, or whoever we have trained to GET these people, and wipe them off the face of the Earth once and for all. SCREW Afghanistan's sovreignty. This wasn't JUST an attack against the US. It's not only US companies that used the World Trade Center. This was an attack on the WHOLE WORLD.

Make them PAY.

Oh, Gods, I think I'm having a psychotic episode.

What's really frightening is that people aren't going to be able to differentiate... they're going to start taking out their anger on anybody who seems arabic in origin, soon. That won't be pretty. Anybody seen the movie "The Siege?"
 

United Airlines is confirming 2 planes are missing.

All schools in Maryland have been closed.

All theme parks in Florida, including Disney and Universal, are evacuated and closed.

Military bases in the Carolinas are preparing for a change in status.

New York National Guard is on full activation.
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: The359 ]

Two planes at the World Trade Center.

One plane at Camp David, MD.

One plane at the Pentagon.

One plane down in Pennsylvannia.

One plane shot down by the Air Force (same as plane in PA?)
 

Break out the nukes.
 

has camp david been confirmed .. nothing on TV yet that i saw

is the AF really going to shoot down civilian planes that arent grounded yet

I heard it first because i was wondering why no one was posting up in starships & technology, so i scrolled down.. ive been to the campus commons and they have TVs.. all 10 AM classes were full but no one is going to noon class

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]

I don't know what happened with the Air Force and the jet, but what I think probably happened is that the jet in question refused to land at a designated airport, or something happened which led the government to believe it was in the control of hijackers, at which point some poor F-15 pilot or whatnot recieved orders to kill everyone on the jet to prevent greater damage.
 

*massages temples*
 

on one hand this could just be the worst thing thats ever happened in our country's history and we go on, but this could mean the end of the american way of life as we know it. and im only on my second mountain dew of the day.

shit.
 

Reports are that people were actually jumping out of the top windows of the World Trade Centers before they collapsed and while they collapsed
 

how do you fight an enemy you cant see
 

A thought just occured to me.

What if ALL of this is a distraction?

This is someone who has a beef against the CD Accords, and thus against Israel. Could this all simply be cover for some kind of assault against THEM?

I'm just being paranoid.

The three obvious suspects are Iraq, Iran, and Bin Laden. But then, it could just be someone trying to cover up who they really are by making it look like it was a Middle-Eastern terrorist act. Anything's possible.
 

C'mon, Mossad, find out who did this.
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

I REALLY REALLY envy the seniors in ROTC right now. They get to play a part in the revenge.

Also, Kennedy Space Center has been shut down (quite close to me) and the VAB and shuttle hangers were reportdely targets.

Also, all planes that were in the air were ordered to land at the nearest smallest airport they could get to. Daytona Beach Intl. being one of them. DBI is fucking dead right now, and three planes have landed this morning, from diversions. Only other activity was a landing police helicopter and a Coast Guard plane that was moved out onto the tarmac and which I cant see anymore, so it prolly went up somewhere, like NYC.
 

"we're going to go after the bastards, its that simple."

fuck ya
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: The359 ]

(paraphrased)

"This was an act of war..."
 

That does sort of make sense (although I hope it's not true). Didn't the Iraeli's destroy the USS Liberty to make a point?
 

Is the MSNBC forum down?

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

Now there's no response from the whole site, and the school has fast internet so its no problem on my side.. its just too mush demand on their server
 

The first tower was hit just before 9am EST, and the 2nd just after 9am, when everyone was beginning work.
 

but seriously New York will need all the help it can get right now
 

The plane that crashed outside of Pittsburgh was the one that was headed for Camp David.

We've closed the Canadian border. Nothing gets in or out of this country except by sea now.
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

My roommate is convinced this isn't Islamic terrorists. She thinks it's homegrown crazies....but I think she's wrong.

The towers...are GONE. That's hard for me to parse. If the towers hadn't been collapsed--by a 3rd explosion a la "Fight Club;" there's no way that the plane strikes up top would've structurally damaged the towers enough to collapse--then the shock wouldn't have been as much. Couple that with the coordinative efforts....

CNN is now showing flight plans of the flights. The Boston-LA one that struck first turned southward sharply just north of Troy & Albany.

Nimster: NYC & DC are in the same timezone.

There will be no more attacks today. The effect has been acheived, the giant has been woken up in pain.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Shik ]

And it's 2pm in both DC and NYC.
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

CNN reports that a passenger on the PA flight was locked in the john on a cellphone calling "airline 911" & shouted "We're being hijacked!" over & over & stayed on the line until a boom.
 

WOW, i'm totally shocked, i've never seen such destruction and horror!

Most of our TV stations here in Germany have either stopped transmitting or joined themselves to a common news coverage.

Even our politicians and our chancellor are in a state of shock.

May God have mercy with all our souls.
All my best wishes and prayers to everyone over in New York and Washington.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Nemesis ]

Tony Blair has also suspended all flights over London for fear of anything happening.

If anything was supposed to happen today, expect it to be cancelled/postponed, like sporting events, awards, etc.
 

Sometimes normal live should not go one as if nothing has happend....
 

I want to see the first shots of the area after the smoke clears...
 

I cant believe this , I just saw the footage of the World Trade Center , a symbol of American democracy , the center peice of the New York skyline has been brought down to the ground.

Estimates of the death tolls are in the tens of thousands though im sure these are only destined to rise. Tens of Thousands of innocent American citizens were brutaly slaughtered today , by cowardly terrorists who have made the classic mistake of under estimating American resolve.

These nameless terrorists have struck a low blow , they may think we are down but this country will not let this defeat it.

With every attack our nation grows stronger , America will rise up as it has so many times , rise from the ashes , rise from the turmoil a stronger nation with one goal , Justice.

Justice for those slaughtered.

As our President has said today , America will not cease , we will throw the entire might of this nation into bringing those perverted minds behind this act to Justice.

I ask all of you , to go on with your lives tomorrow , do not let this terrible act disrupt your life , do not give these terroists the satisfaction.

My heart goes out to these victems and they're families as they cope with this dasterdly act.

Alot of my Army reserve friends have been contacted , and a few of them have already been activated and is in the process of mobilizing itself for departure to New York.

This is our Pearl Harbor.

We must answer this one the same way we answered the call in 1941 , as one nation determind to bring peace to a hostile world , to rebuild , stronger and better than we were before.
 

i think internet traffic is being affected.. while the news sites are coping with the overload, i cant get a lot of international sites.. like bernd's EAS for example

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]

Anyone who could, ran for a TV set and stood in shock as they watched the carnage unfold before them thousands of miles away. Words escape me as I try to describe how I felt as I watched the scenes before me. The sight of those buildings collapsing, the people trapped inside, the panic stricken people outside, the emergency services people helpless to stop the horrific events, and the fate of the innocent people in the hijacked planes is something that will remain with me - with all of us - forever.

I know I speak for all those here at Broxtowe College Nottingham when I say that we are deeply shocked and angered by the events today. Our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to you all.
 

Anti Islamic sentiments are growing all over , I wouldnt be surprised if poor innocent Muslims are being dragged into the streets. The sad part is that the silent Majority suffers for the sins of the vocal minority , in this case the fanatic Islamic organizations or if I want to be totally direct. These Organizations that HIDE under the name of Islam so as to pervert the religion into their own docterine and use it to justify their hatred.

I too fear that this could turn into the same thing Japanesse Americans faced after Pearl Harbor.

I think we should all remember that out of the tens of thousands who lost their lives , were members of all races and creeds and under whatever skin color or religious belief they were Americans same as any other.
 

Maybe they studied Tom Clancy movies and decided NOT to leave a face on a "arrogant confession" tape, nor any sound tapes that Tom Cruise or Peter Graves or MacGyver could decipher and deny them a computer file with perfect mugshots on the perpetrators.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: G.K Nimrod ]

Anti Air Craft Fire reported over Kabal , Afghanistan followed by what appears to be white streaks being reported as Missiles.

Dan Rather is saying that the explosion being a result of Missiles is not confirmed but this does seem to fit the bill of a Tomahawk Missile attack.
 

I'm hoping she is as lucky as your friend Lee.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Obese Penguin ]

It is as some have said like a disaster movie - ever watched 'Executive Decision'? it's as close to this scenario as any other. But could one really believe this could happen at this scale in real life? I couldn't, and it is why I'm so very shaken and upset, as we all are tonight.

There is no description other than EVIL for what these people have done. They must have their reasons. And if it really is indeed Islam extremists responsible for this, then it must be that in their twisted eyes and fanatic souls they see us as the infidel; we are the evil ones; us and our democracy. But they are incorrect. Alright our western world and its way of life is not perfect, we have a multiude of problems that still pervade society, but how could they do this!!? Other than the political situation and the believed sympathy for the Israelis, we would not, and could not use images and ideals of our Gods to strike down human beings of other faiths in acts of appalling mass terrorism.

Justice, and I say justice, not simple blind retaliation, should be tough and absolute, but not until the culprits have been identified without doubt. But one must have fears that many other inncocent lives might be lost in this process, and then this whole darned situation could blow horribly out of control - this must be prevented, lest this trigger the real 'end of days'.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all those killed and injured, or otherwise affected, and may our heads remain composed, and hearts not swell with the exact same anger and desires for vengeful violence of those that in the beginning perpetrated this terrible act.
 

15th anniversary of the Camp David Accords the signing of the peace treaty between the Palistinians and the Israelis.

September 11th: International Day of Peace, as christened by the UN in 1981.

Also, today is also the day back in 1970 the U.S. reckonized Isreal as an Independent Country. Since then, we (the U.S.) have been marked.

One of Bin Laden's people was to go on trial tomorrow at a court near the WTC.
 

9/11/01.

Notice the month and day? 911. Crazy, huh?

Or, for another thing odd, look at the date today is being compared to. Dec. 7th ... Sept 11th ... 7/11. Obviously, this strike was coordinated by Arab workers to show unity for Arabs working at 7/11's ...
 

"we would not, and could not use images and ideals of our Gods to strike down human beings of other faiths in acts of appalling mass terrorism."

I'm sorry for continuosly bringing this up, but...
Try telling that to certain people living in Northern Ireland.
 

Yes I'm being vengeful and sadistic but I am without a doubt extremely pissed off.
 

What I wouldn't give to be a firefighter up there right now.
 

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: MeGotBeer ]

Remember the horrible stories.
Remember the video.
Remember the day that thousands of innocents died.
Never forget what happened this terrible day.

Much like WWII was for your grandparents and the Kennedy assassination was for your parents, this day will be remembered as a watershed of our generation.
 

I woke up today at 7:45 a.m., Central Standard Time. This was about the moment that the first airliner struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center. It wasn't until 8:20 a.m. (about 15 minutes after the South Tower was hit) that I learned of what was going on. My first class was cut short; we listened to periodic news updates through the time we did have class. After that, I headed to the cafeteria in my old dorm to grab some food and watch TV. I remember when I woke up, the first thought in my mind was whether I was going to have to fight off anymore invading tree roaches in my room. It's still odd to me thinking that I was worrying about tree roaches when hundreds of people were dying.

All of the footage from today will stay with me forever. CNN recently showed amateur footage of the first plane hitting the WTC #1. I'll forever remember the roar of the jet engines, the wild pan of the camera, and the final shot of the massive plane sailing right into the tower and exploding in a fireball. I'll remember the first footage of the second strike at the WTC I saw. This was a view of the South Tower perfectly hidden behind the North Tower, with her gaping holes, flames, and black smoke. I'll remember the precision curve that the second aircraft made as she came in from behind and struck the tower. Forever seered in memory is that giant fireball erupting on three sides of that tower and billowing up.

The other angles of the second plane attack will be remembered as well. The plane soaring through the sky and simply slicing through the tower. The plane sneaking in from behind and stabbing the tower from the back. The film of the closeup of North Tower's gaping holes with tons of black smoke. From the bottom left, the giant fireball of South Tower glows against the intact windows of North Tower. In it, one can see all too clearly the millions of sheets of office paperwork floating in the wind. I'll remember the footage of the smoldering ruins of the southwest side of the Pentagon. And I'll remember that roof and walls collapsing on that section.

When the reporters and anchors thought things could not get any worse, it did. The South Tower, mortally wounded in the midsection and heavy damage to at least two corners of her structure, gave out, and she collapsed in on herself, trapping her occupants, her victims, and their rescuers. Then, her twin sister joined her as the supports for the top floors gave out and the rest of her body pancaked in on itself. As the gray smoke and ash billowed out of the collapsing structure, I'll remember her giant mast antenna slipping into the smoke and disappearing forever. In the aftermath, I'll remember the tours of the ash and paperwork littered streets. The shot of a single shoe left behind on the street. The pictures of bloodied people, and people emotionally and physically exhausted trying to survive and rescue others.

So, yes, I will never ever forget what happened today. I will never ever forget that on a day I worried about class, work, and roaches, tens of thousands of people died in a senseless and simply horrible act. However, there is one somewhat inspirational image that I will not forget. You have the scene of the Manhattan battleground with the skin of one of the massive twin towers in the background. In the foreground, there's a traffic pole that managed to survive. Bent across it is a flagpole with a tattered, but intact, American flag waving in the wind. I think this one picture sums up best has happened and what will happened. We Americans are like that flag: we're tattered, but we will survive like that flag. And, ultimately, good will come of such a horrible tragedy.
 

Godfearing or no, every human being on this planet should never be willing to murder another human. I am not one to wish the suffering of another person, or one to believe in hell, but right now I wish they burn in pergatory, only to rise again each day for it to be repeated.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: The Antagonist ]

quote:

---

In the world today, there aren't any heroes left.

---

I can understand your feelings. But yes there are heroes.

The 200 some-odd N.Y. firefighters who lost their lives trying to save others....

The unknown numbers of N.Y. police that did the same....

The numbers of persons who helped strangers and co-workers out of the massive dust-shrouded area around the towers often at risk to their own saftey....

Those men and women in Washington D.C. who did all they could to assist the injured and dying in the Pentagon....

Those who went into chaos to give to others. Those who are going to be back at it tomorrow and the next tday.

Those are your heroes.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]

This event will most likely unite many contries in an effort to bring justice to the horrible things that have commited this crime against feedom and humanity.

The distruction of these terrorist are the only thing that will put the minds of the victims families at rest.

I will be writing a rather long commentary soon. Perhaps tonight.
 

quote:

---

LET IT GO. Yes, people were killed. Yes, it was a tragedy. Yes, I'm sure the perpetrators are rejoicing and elated. But where does it end? The people who pulled the trigger are dead, too. Let it go

---

Shik , the people that pulled the trigger are not gone , the trigger maybe but not the planners , these hijackers were just soldiers of a much larger group , who we can not let get away with this.

Like Pearl Harbor , we can not let an attack on our soil slide , because they will just become bolder , and it will just happen again.

When terrorists hit our embassies in Africa we responded with a slap on the wrist and nothing was acomplished , these engineers of evil remained to unleash their twisted plans on poor innocent souls.

I agree with former Secretary of Defence William Cohen and National Security Advisor Sandy Berger when they say this is not a problem one strike will stop , it will be a vast commitment and a systematic crackdown on these monsters.

If we stand idly by and allow these people to conduct their evil in our country we will only see , more dead , more destruction , more havoc and carnage the likes of which we can not fathom.

We can not show weakness , this is EXACTLY what these people want , they want to sew fear into America , we can not let them succeed.

They just found one of the fire fighters alive under the debris , my hope is that this is one of many.
 

If there is one thing I can say, its that the people of this country are ready to back the USA in any given course of action.

I just hope that there is some temper to that action, so that innocents on the other side do not suffer the same fate.

Talking to people I know over here & in Europe I can say this - we're with you on this one.
 

I think they have now overstepped their bounds, the world is outraged and they see this as an act of war , the international community will not stand for such a cold calculated attack.

Even Jordan has expressed outrage and has pledged to stand next to the Americans on any action they take.
 

A man was arrested in Baltimore -- yesterday, he somehow got himself inside the State Capitol building in Annapolis, and called in a bogus list of seven high-profile "targets" that were feared to be on the list, including the Baltimore World Trade Center, and Annapolis. I don't know how much coverage that "list" made, but it was on local stations here in Maryland.

Today in class has just been shock. The campus is half empty, and all we're doing speaking in class is about this tragedy. I got irritated with some people in my Brit Lit class who have a "go it alone" attitude and were snubbing the support coming from Europe and elsewhere. Idiots. Don't they see this -- while an attack which happened on US soil -- was an attack on the entire Western World?
 

I mean, come on, such rhetoric is for politicians, we don't want it here!
 

quote:

---

Whereas, when the Irish bomb us, it's no more than we deserve, and they are to be congratulated and given your full support? Oh, but they're freedom fighters, not terrorists, I forgot. . .

---

?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?????????
 

ELIMINATE.
 

"No mercy."
 

Yes, there was nothing on this scale. But it was over a long period of time. You know the fear the US now has? That's the fear many Londoners had to put up with for decades.

This isn't to take away from the shock or tradegy of the situation at all, BTW. It's just a comment.

And Nimrod has raised a point. It's disturbing how many people (including some of you), who are normally peaceful, reasonable human beings, are adopting a "kill them all, nuke them back to the stone age" attitude. It's a little frightening.
 

The USS George Washington and her battle group arrived this morning in New York.
 

In sad news, it doesn't seem likely that the people buried in the wreckage of the Twin Towers will be able to be rescued. In OK City, it took 17 days for everyone (dead and alive) to be removed from the rubble -- and that was only, maybe, a 12-story building. They've got two 110-story buildings, tens of thousands of people possibly buried in the wreckage (most dead, many alive).

And as we speak, the USS Enterprise, our most famous Supercarrier, and her battle group, are en-route for the Persian Gulf as Navy warships deploy across both coasts and the George Washington's battle group arrives to guard New York.
 

An American woman living close by us here in the Netherlands got two phonecalls from her husband who works inside the WTC.

The first was to tell her the building shook and was being evacuated. The second was to tell her to keep remembering him and that he was not going to make it. Then the line was cut off...
 

See? I can get annoyed too. I see you lot drawing a line in the sand, and I see which side the rest of the world is on. I see clause 5 of the NATO charter - a rule so unused, it's got dust on it - which stipulates that an attack against one member is an attack against all (thanks for all your help in the Falklands War, by the way) suddenly being given a lot of attention now it's in your favour.

Tony Blair and others have already pledged their full support to whatever measures the US takes. You can be sure - indeed some are just assuming - that we'll be there with you, and dying for your cause, because it's a cause the rest of the civilised world (we do exist, it's not all darkies with twigs in their hair) supports.

But staying on our side of the line, of course.
 

I could have been George W Bush and still been refused. Not that I expect Dubya to share my tase in music, though. . . 8)
 

Very few (I hope) Americans share that asswhipe's view. Don't assume we're all like that.
 

quote:

---

Tony Blair and others have already pledged their full support to whatever measures the US takes. You can be sure - indeed some are just assuming - that we'll be there with you, and dying for your cause, because it's a cause the rest of the civilised world (we do exist, it's not all darkies with twigs in their hair) supports.

---

I hope, that we extract a large portion of revenge, but that doesn't extend to anyone outside of those harboring terrorist. Although it has already been said on TV here, that any operation carried out would be a UN operation, I believe it should be only a USA effort, with the Russians watching our backs, if it is indeed Afganistan.

quote:

---

(thanks for all your help in the Falklands War, by the way)

---

Like you guys needed anyone else, nor did the Argentinians kill thousands.
 

quote:

---

Although it has already been said on TV here, that any operation carried out would be a UN operation, I believe it should be only a USA effort

---

Because you need the pleasure of doing it yourself?

A unified response from the UN in the name of the defence of the fundamental tenets of humanity (and those, not "America," came under attack on Tuesday) is what is warranted. Time to show terrorists that humanity as a whole wants to fuck them up.
 

Mayor Martin O'Malley said that in this time of national crisis, anyone calling in a bomb threat was committing treason.
 

And although they probably won't be convicted of treason, I think they'll certainly be facing a long time in jail.
 

Capitalism and freedom came under specific, direct attack Tuesday. That'd be an attack on America. The UN wouldn't be ticked, if not for the loss if innocent life.

This is not a criticism. I just don't want any confusion here. We were attacked because the idiots that did this hate the concepts of freedom, capitalism, and democracy. America, the idea, WAS attacked, no question about it.
 

As for Bush, I may be Democrat, but I have respect for him. He is our country's leader, and he is doing everything he can. Think what it would be like if you were President.

People say that they are angry because not everything was done to prevent this attack. The truth is, nothing could have been done. The US receives thousands of threats every day. They can't all be investigated. And the terrorists have been planning this for 15 or more months...before Bush was president. This did not happen because Bush was president. It would've happened under Gore or Clinton or any other Commander in Chief.
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omega:
Capitalism and freedom came under specific, direct attack Tuesday. That'd be an attack on America. The UN wouldn't be ticked, if not for the loss if innocent life.

This is not a criticism. I just don't want any confusion here. We were attacked because the idiots that did this hate the concepts of freedom, capitalism, and democracy. America, the idea, WAS attacked, no question about it.

---

I respectfully disagree.

Firstly, on your point on how "The UN wouldn't be ticked, if not for the loss if innocent life." ...well, what exactly would this disaster comprise if people hadn't been killed? If you're referring to an analagous attack where twin towers were destroyed but no people died, I'd still say the UN would take issue with it. Or is it an evil socialist World order that wouldn't care about billions and billions of dollars of damage to the global economy?

Secondly, I don't think Islamic fundamentalists give a flying fuck what kind of government the US has, be it democratic, dictatorial or nepotic( ). They don't care if their enemy is capitalist or communist (Afghani-Soviet War, anyone?). They don't lie in bed at night fuming with jealousy because the US is "free" and they aren't.

They resent the fact that they are weaker than the US. They resent the fact that the West has more say in determing how the world operates than they do. They resent fundamental human values such as peaceful coexistence and non-violent settlement of problems. They showed the world that as far as they were concerned, the rest of the world's ideals didn't matter to them and they would breach them to achieve their ends.

So, yes, Blair was right when he said that the whole free world was attacked yesterday. It was an attack on the ideals of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the states that support them, not an attack on a method of choosing a government or circulating wealth.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]

America is possible the most visible part of that idea, but it's by no means the only one. What does the UK stand for? Or the EU? Or is the US the only country that's allowed to "stand" for something?
 

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."
-US Code, title 18, part I, chapter 115, section 2381

The Government seems to know something we don't.
 

quote:

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And the terrorists have been planning this for 15 or more months...

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Where'd you get THAT number from ... ?

Yes, the attack would've come no matter who was in office. You're not going to see whomever the Democratic Presidential candidate is in two years saying, "George W. Bush is responsible for the most hideous terrorist attack on this country!"

And if Gore had been in office, whichever Republican ran against him wouldn't have made the same claim.

People will be questioning the reasons behind the funding of SDI instead of more realistic security concerns -- how many people here saw the FAA study where FAA undercover officers were able to smuggle guns and pipe bombs and do other mischief on 170 seperate occasions -- ?

Heads will roll for the lack of preperation. I'm not saying Bush's will -- or should -- but, SDI is going to go under the microscope.
 

For one thing, how is anyone planning on paying for the $40 billion bill passed tonight?
 

"The Government seems to know something we don't."

Um... Maybe you don't know, but I think everyone else does. It's been decided that flights 77 and 93 (Pentagon and Pennsylvania crashes) were probably actually headed for Washington. There's evidence that the White House was to be a target. Airplanes are starting to fly again.

The terrorists didn't finish their job the first time around, and the chance to try again is starting to present itself.
 

quote:

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I was watching a documentary which asked various members and experts of non-fundamentalist and non-militant Islamic groups, who said that the continued American occupation of their country is what offends the Taliban.

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?????? We are occupying Afganistan???

(I'm assuming they are refering to our base in SA.)

Fuck, I've got to watch the news more.

Lets put this out there for debate:

Isn't the real reason for this because of USA support of Isreal?
 

For one thing, how is anyone planning on paying for the $40 billion bill passed tonight?

Remember? Surplus. BIG surplus. $150 billion surplus this year alone.

And again, this has nothing to do with SDI, so drop that.
 

While it is probably comforting to think they did it because they hate the US for being different, it's not true. The US does have a measure of blame here. (Not that is excuses what they did in any way, but you weren't attacked just because you were a "free and democratic country". You were attacked because you are helping their mortal enemies).
 

Irony.
 

Here in Wisconsin everyone was donating blood, and they had to close down the Expo Center because they had too much. It's sad to see that a terrorist attack has to bring a nation together, and not a happier occasion, but nonetheless it is a show of patriotnisim (sp?).

They've found the flight recorders of both the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crahses. Unfortunately, the voice recorder from the one from the Pentagon is too damaged to use, so we won't here from that. Looks like the only crash we may be able to figure out what took place on board is the most mysterious one.

Stand together.
 

*L*

There's a non-sequitor if I ever heard one. Nuclear submarines didn't stop these attacks, either. Should we cut funding for those? Or how 'bout we scuttle all the aircraft carriers? They didn't do much good against these attacks, either.

Stand together.

Tell that to the scumbags that are attacking Bush at a time like this. Can you believe some of the things these people are saying?
 

Hey, their 'mortal enemy' was attacked from three sides just moments after they became a country, fought two wars for survival, and managed to stage the most successful tank battle in history (parhaps eclipsed now by ours in the Gulf War), tripling their held territory. And then we made them give most of it (the Siani peninsula) back.
 

Both activities seem difficult, and distasteful
 

He has powers.
 

Partisan sniping? Who said anything about parties? I'm COMPLAINING about partisan sniping.

Getting a little quick on the trigger, there, Simon.
 

You've really got no place to speak about partisan bitching, considering your comments regarding Gore.

On WBAL 1090AM in Baltimore last night, Bruce and his listeners and caller-ins spent four hours talking about Clinton's appearance in New York. FOUR FUCKING HOURS. How many people are dead? And it seems like all the Republicans want to do is cry about Clinton. Jesus Christ people, get over yourselves. The citizens don't want to hear more Republicans crying about the ex-President, they want to find out how they can help with the disasters in Arlington and New York, and what we're going to do about this. You know, you guys are only making yourselves look like dividers. And you're acting like pricks. At least 5,000 people are dead. Could you at least act like you'd rather worry about helping the rescue efforts, and not use this opportunity to scream at Bill Clinton? I know if I was one of the dead, I'd be really pissed off if my death was being used for no other reason then another reason for Republicans to cry about what an evil man Bill Clinton is.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

quote:

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There's a non-sequitor if I ever heard one. Nuclear submarines didn't stop these attacks, either. Should we cut funding for those? Or how 'bout we scuttle all the aircraft carriers? They didn't do much good against these attacks, either.

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Funding for the Mint didn't help either. Nor did funding for the White House janitorial staff.

Things are supposed to do what they are designed to do, and your examples are prime examples of the non sequitur you keep calling other people on.

The so called missile shield is supposed to stop potential nuclear, or other missile attacks on the United States.

Tuesday's events showed a determined foe doesn't need a missile to launch an attack. In other words, this missile shield has so many holes in it that sea sponges are jealous.

The missile shield, the Maginot Line of American policy, is usless.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]

your examples are prime examples of the non sequitur you keep calling other people on.

Yes, and that's exactly why I used them as examples. It's called "sarcasm".

Tuesday's events showed a determined foe doesn't need a missile to launch an attack.

*gasp*

He DOESN'T? You mean there are other ways to attack someone BESIDES NUCLEAR MISSILES???
No kidding, Jay. A missile shield is designed to stop missiles. Nothing else. This incident has nothing to do with missiles, and is thus not related to the concept of a missile shield.
 

-Missile shield is supposed to stop incoming ICBM's. Nothing else. However...

-...Missile shield is technically flawed and could only stop a handful in any scenario. Also easily overwhelmed. Besides...

-...Any rogue state would think twice before launching ICBM's since it would mean (M!)AD. Therefore...

-...Only one credible threat left; terrorists attacking with nukes. But...

-...Terrorists wouldn't use missiles to deliver them. They would put 'm in trucks, boats, and planes. So...

-...Missile shield is total waste of money and would collect dust after being completed.

Did I manage to penetrate that 5 inch thick concrete wall that's in front of your head, Omega? Nah, probably not.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: IDIC ]

I tried to be reasonable and present something calmly. Too bad it's such a hot button issue.

Take the rest of the SDI stuff to the Flameboard.

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]

Anyway, this tells us politicians have pretty much the same viewpoints as us, the hard-working American citizens. It felt a lot like the news room at the meeting, with everyone talking about what should happen and what we should do.
 

There is an entire thread devoted to SDI. Did you not see it? This really belongs there with that.
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sol System:
That's great, it starts with an earthquake, something and something and Lenny Bruce is not afraid.

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Sol System, that would be '...birds, snakes and aeroplanes...' An interesting omission.
 

quote:

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You've really got no place to speak about partisan bitching, considering your comments regarding Gore.

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Ah... HAHAHAA! Oh, I see, you're making a joke!

Well, I wouldn't DO it if you weren't so damn DEFENSIVE about it! (and you should be wondering WHY you're so damn defensive about it.)

Observe... The 'partisan sniping' about Gore:

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I thank whatever gods there are that GORE isn't president. I can see it now...
"I helped BUILD the World Trade Center..."
"This dust from the debris is bad for the environment. We need new regulations against erecting buildings made from concrete" (Clinton sticks his head into frame: "Heh-heh... you said 'erecting'... heh-heh-heh.")
"I feel your pain."
"This is part of the vast right-wing conspiracy."

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54 words, not counting the Clinton bit (14 words), all of which was clearly humorous in intent, if not in quality.

Compare to...

quote:

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You've really got no place to speak about partisan bitching, considering your comments regarding Gore.
On WBAL 1090AM in Baltimore last night, Bruce and his listeners and caller-ins spent four hours talking about Clinton's appearance in New York. FOUR FUCKING HOURS. How many people are dead? And it seems like all the Republicans want to do is cry about Clinton. Jesus Christ people, get over yourselves. The citizens don't want to hear more Republicans crying about the ex-President, they want to find out how they can help with the disasters in Arlington and New York, and what we're going to do about this. You know, you guys are only making yourselves look like dividers. And you're acting like pricks. At least 5,000 people are dead. Could you at least act like you'd rather worry about helping the rescue efforts, and not use this opportunity to scream at Bill Clinton? I know if I was one of the dead, I'd be really pissed off if my death was being used for no other reason then another reason for Republicans to cry about what an evil man Bill Clinton is.

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189 words, entirely of complaining, and of no humorous content whatsoever. You spent more than three times the time and effort I have, and you weren't even FUNNY! 'Partisan bitching' my arse.
 

Speaking of which, I know Omega inquired, it turns out George W. Bush sent an Air Force jet to Australia to retrieve Bill Clinton (he'd asked how Clinton got back into the US).

You'll also notice that in my post, I'm not attacking politicians, with the purpose of humerous or serious commentary. I'm attacking people who spend time bitching about Clinton's appearance in NYC (pro & con) instead of focusing on what is important.

Nyah-nyah!
 

<Dead or Alive> Watch Out [or] Here I['ll] Come </Dead or Alive>

(and, if I may take off my mod's hat, First's jokes suck. Even the sound of Liam offloading a rather large stool would be funnier.)

[ September 18, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]

Still, I was accused of 'partisan bitching' when I clearly wasn't.

So.
 

quote:

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Well, sometimes I can pick up Krenim's thoughts on my fillings, but I've always assumed that was part of some mad experiment on his part.

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Sorry about that Sol, It's part of the HBN[Hillbilly Broadcast Network), part of our plan to take... Umm, I'm not supposed to talk about that. (Damn)