I can speak a little for the internal conflict in Jewish life. From experiences I have had with the Orthodox and reading the Talmud, I have developed ideas on the position of the Modern Israeli Orthodox Jew.
In the Talmud, a compendium of laws and anecdotes, a theme emerges. The Orthodox Jews viewed converts as less than full Jews. They were grouped with the poor and the maimed. A true Jew was one who had generations of Jewish blood on his mother's side and followed the Mosaic laws, both written and unwritten. We are speaking purity here, folks. You know the junk that the NAZIS were sprouting out of their mouths in the 20th century. This is in my opinion one of the greatest weaknesses of the Jewish people.
Anyhow, the modern Orthodox Jew in Israel is taught this belief either indirectly, via in-depth study of the Talmud and other Rabbinic works, or directly. What does this mean for the other two branches of Judaism? This means that they are not viewed as true, pure Jews. Their form of Judaism is seen as lacking in the essential qualities which defined Judaism as defined in the Rabbinal writings.
An additional note to made about the Orthodox Jews. They don't recognize Holocaust Remembrance Day. This day, which is celebrated every year in Israel with silence, is seen as a Goyim holiday. Goyim is Jewish word for Gentile. Gentiles are vieweed in the Talmud and by modern Orthodox Jews as less than converts, as less than women. These people will accept a day which marks the fall of the Second Temple, but they won't do so for a day which marks the greatest tragedy in Judaism. Do I need to say more?
When I attempted to join Judaism, I was heavily discouraged from doing so by the Orthodox Rabbis. Their desire in not helping me convert was made very clear. Though discouraged, I still continue my studies.
Though I am pro-Israel, pro-Jewish, I know in my heart Israel will be gone in a century. The reasons for her creation were wrong-as a guilt offering by shamed nations who did nothing as the Holocaust occured. Now, decades later, these same nations which said yes to her creation are luke warm in their support. Without stronger support, Israel will falter. With internal dissension between the secular Jews and the purity-driven Orthodox Jews, the country will be torn by civil war. With a class of people oppresed-the Israeli Arabs-growing in number and hatred of the Jews, they will face a more terrifying enemy-an enemy that knows the Jews far more better than the Palestinians. These problems and more will destroy this young nation.
I grieve for Israel and her people.
[ March 24, 2002, 22:45: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Their problems are of their own making. They didn't have to act like the international assholes they've become. They started losing the Holocaust sympathy vote as soon as they started forcing Palestinians out of their homes. All you need now is a US President who says to the Jewish lobby groups: "Yeah? Well if you think Israel is so great, fuck off and live there then." and they'll be comnpletely stuffed.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...Israel will be gone in a century."
Good. Maybe if the original mistake (i.e. the creation of Israel) rectifies itself, the whole area will be less of a clusterfuck.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I guess we can only wait and see what God has in store for his chosen people.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by U//Magnus: I guess we can only wait and see what God has in store for his chosen people.
I believe the Israelis have learned that they can't rely on anyone but themselves for protection.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
From what I can juxtapose of the Old Testament and current events, it seems that new-found knowledge hasn't actually affected their actions in any way.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Not necessarily, the Jews didn't really do much in their own defense during WWII because they still had faith in their whole god's chosen people idea. They've been kicking butts ever since the Holocaust. The problem is getting them to stop protecting themselves by crushing the Palestindians.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
As long as the IAF remains in a century, I'll be perfectly fine. Best damned Air Force in the world.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Don't let Rob or Omega hear that.
[ConservativeFunnySpeak]The IAF IS NOT THE BEST AIR FORCE IN THE WORLD BECAUSE THE NAME "UNITED STATES" IS NOWHERE IN IT! BEEEEEYAH![/ConservativeFunnySpeak]
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
You're a strange, strange person.
Not only is the IAF top of the line, but their army waged one of the most successful tank battles in history. And the Mossad... beats hell out of other similar agencies.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Just hearing the name Mossad gives me the chills, dunno why...
Apparently Israel's military intellegence service is not nearly quite as good.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Mossad"? I don't get any chills. It sounds like an attempt to sell plant life...
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
I don't know about Israel, but Plaestine might get an ass kicking after what Plestine's idiot radicals did just 20 minutes ago.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I did not know that Israel had a beef with Plaestine, nor did I know that Plestine did anything 20 minutes ago.
It's P-A-L-E-S-T-I-N-E, dimrod. Can you be re-banned?
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Can we make the spelling police go away now?
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)