I have been told the conflicts in the Middle East could start a World War 3. Most if not all Middle East countries would band together and invade Israel. Then in return our ally asks us for help (GB and USA) and either we turn them down or we in fact do help. Now that is needed a spark to ignite the fire.
What do you think?
[ April 10, 2002, 15:59: Message edited by: Matrix ]
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I think you've been listening to too many fearmongers... or maybe javaman on snopes's site. But he's a loony.
1. They probably wouldn't all band together... there are too many other rivalries there. Plus, most of them really don't care that much about the Palestinians, if they did they'd have taken them in.
2. The last time, Israel beat them. The time before that, Israel beat them. With help, yes, but not with as much help as we might give them now.
3. WW3? With WHO? there's just no major power pulling that much for the other side. Russia probably would LIKE to see oil prices go higher, then they could sell us their oil and make a killing. China doesn't seem to be that interested. Pakistan and India have their own problems, and cancel each other out. Neither has the tech to reach the West yet.
From the news from over there, maybe France might side against us, (j/k) but that wouldn't last. Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
The Israelian army is the third-strongest in the world (thanks to fifty years of uninterrupted American funding and a very powerful Jewish lobby).
Any war waged against that nation would be over before it even started.
[ April 10, 2002, 17:00: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
Israelian?
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
The last good war they had was what...... 6-days???
Them Israelian's know how to fight.... the problem maybe with the Egypti's, with us selling them the rights to the M-1. Since an M-1 has a hell of a time blowing up an M-1 the Merkava(sp?) might have a tad of a problem....
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I really really hope for the world's sake that this thread isn't dragged out in a few months time and waved in my face, but I'm pretty confident you simply won't see a war against Israel involving either Egypt or Jordan. Barring radical Islamist coups in both countries, Mubarrak and Hussein aren't going to take military action
That would leave, worst case scenario, attack from Syria and/or Iraq. The unfortunate thing is that both these are countries that the West would likely retaliate against thanks to previous unfinished business, which inevitably means we'd get exactly what the extremist Arab groups want, full scale war between the Satanic American-Jewish Zionist conspiracy vs. All that is pure and holy.
Which is why Israel has to borrow a page out of Rabin's policy from 1991 and try to avoid going to war with Iraq and Syria because that would get very ugly very quickly.
[ April 10, 2002, 20:02: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
I am seriously hoping there is no World War 3, for obivous reasons and not so obvious reasons. In 9-10 I will be shipping out to boot camp for the Navy and guess what would happen to me if there was a war? I go to war, and so does my younger brother and everyone in my school.
I have been told this if you look at it, no Middle East country likes Israel that much. Now if Saddam suceeds in getting a large portion of the Middle East in stopping oil production for a month, then there is a motive underneath that so called protest. It does not take a scientist to think that if a country is willing to stop the only way of getting money to their country for a month as a protest that then they are willing to go to war with that same country they are protesting about.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
quote:In 9-10 I will be shipping out to boot camp for the Navy and guess what would happen to me if there was a war
You'll earn your pay.
Er ... everyone in your school is joining the Navy, too?
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
No they're going for the Marines...
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
The Marines are a branch of the Navy, I hope you realize.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snayer: The Marines are a branch of the Navy, I hope you realize.
Really? I'd never have guessed. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Tom: I think it's safe to say that King Hussein isn't going to be taking any kind of action any time soon...
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Don't let any Marines hear you say that Snayer. Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
OPEC, since oil retention was brought up....
Venezuela - South America Ethnic groups: Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Arab, German, African, indigenous people Religions: nominally Roman Catholic 96%, Protestant 2%, other 2%
Nigeria - Africa Ethnic groups: Nigeria, which is Africa's most populous country, is composed of more than 250 ethnic groups; the following are the most populous and politically influential: Hausa and Fulani 29%, Yoruba 21%, Igbo (Ibo) 18%, Ijaw 10%, Kanuri 4%, Ibibio 3.5%, Tiv 2.5% Religions: Muslim 50%, Christian 40%, indigenous beliefs 10%
Algeria - Africa Ethnic groups: Arab-Berber 99%, European less than 1% Religions: Sunni Muslim (state religion) 99%, Christian and Jewish 1%
Libya - Africa Ethnic groups: Berber and Arab 97%, Greeks, Maltese, Italians, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Turks, Indians, Tunisians Religions: Sunni Muslim 97%
Indonesia - Pacific Rim Ethnic groups: Javanese 45%, Sundanese 14%, Madurese 7.5%, coastal Malays 7.5%, other 26% Religions: Muslim 88%, Protestant 5%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 2%, Buddhist 1%, other 1% (1998)
Iran - Middle East Ethnic groups: Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1% Religions: Shi'a Muslim 89%, Sunni Muslim 10%, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i 1%
Iraq - Middle East Ethnic groups: Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5% Religions: Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%
Kuwait - Middle East Ethnic groups: Kuwaiti 45%, other Arab 35%, South Asian 9%, Iranian 4%, other 7% Religions: Muslim 85% (Sunni 45%, Shi'a 40%), Christian, Hindu, Parsi, and other 15%
Saudi Arabia - Middle East Ethnic groups: Arab 90%, Afro-Asian 10% Religions: Muslim 100%
United Arab Emerites - Middle East Ethnic groups: Emirati 19%, other Arab and Iranian 23%, South Asian 50%, other expatriates (includes Westerners and East Asians) 8% (1982)
note: less than 20% are UAE citizens (1982) Religions: Muslim 96% (Shi'a 16%), Christian, Hindu, and other 4%
Location, make-up of the peoples, national economies, and the countries political systems will also help us to interpolate whether or not these countries will attempt to with hold oil from Western/Israeli allies...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: Them Israelian's know how to fight.... the problem maybe with the Egypti's, with us selling them the rights to the M-1. Since an M-1 has a hell of a time blowing up an M-1 the Merkava(sp?) might have a tad of a problem....
Don't worry about little things like that, there's no way the US was going to export top notch technology to a so-so friendly country like Egypt, especially in the area of material science (Chobham armor). The M1s Egypt received are most certainly watered-down, export versions.
During Desert Storm, M1s were blowing the crap out of each other in friendly fire incidents. I wish I had bookmarked that report, but oh well. Tom Clancy might have said differently, but people don't faith in what he says anymore.
The Merkava was designed specifically for desert operations, and has since then been improved dramatically. I really would put it equal to the M1A2 overall. No more target practice like what happened with the Iraqi T-72s.
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snayer: The Marines are a branch of the Navy, I hope you realize.
You're a braver man than me for saying that.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
mmmm, no the Air Force, Navy, and Army Aviation was doing the blowing up/friendly fire (truly odd expression), I will see if I can get the info and link about the M-1 that got stuck in a wadi, the units had to move on and higher-higher ordered them to blow it inplace. They fired three times.
M-1s are designed with blowout panels, so if/when the ammo in the turret gets hit it blows out away from the crew, then the shape of the inside is supposed to deflect rounds back out. It oddly enough work as advertised on TV....
I will also see if I can find the link on the fit people through about the sellnig of M-1s to Egypt, most of the bells and whistles were there, not much of the computer and fire control systems, but that doesn't matter when a Merkava gets one in its sights, hits, and nothing much happens.....
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
quote:Don't let any Marines hear you say that Snayer.
Well, when they start beating me up, I tell them they heard me wrong and I said the Navy was part of the Department of the Marine Corps. Then they giggle, slap me on the back, buy me a beer, and break my nose.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Incidently, the president of Venezuela has just recently been deposed by a military coup.
Even more incidently, Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky" for "Venezuela" sends you to a Venezuelan site selling X-Boxes. (Among other things, presumably.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, regardless of what they may like to think, the Marine Corps is a division of the Navy. Just like the early incarnation of the the Air Force was a division of the Army.
Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :
A Correction
Last major Israeli War was the Yom Kippur War of 1973. The Six Day War was in 1967.
I am frankly surprised that no one caught this blaring error. Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
Well, at least you didn't start a new thread about it, TE.
[ April 13, 2002, 08:04: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snayer ]
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
A good war is a short one....
Yom Kippur Started Oct 6, 1973 21 Oct, 1973 Israeli forces surrounded the Egyptian forces, on the Egyptian side of the Suez Canal 25 Oct, 1973 U.S. pressures Israel in to accepting cease fire, this happens when the U.S.S.R. threatens to intervene....
Too long.....
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Well, you really shouldn't put complete faith in the Abram like that, Ritten. It's a good tank, no doubt about it, but there are many tanks just as good out there, better in some areas. It's just that because they weren't American and blazing trails through Iraq, they didn't receive as much public attention.
I already know about the M1 that got stuck in the wadi, it was mentioned in Tom Clancy's Armor Cav.
Blow-out panels are like an industry standard in modern tanks, anyways. So are computerized fire controls, composite armor, and DU/tungsten penetrators. There are tanks that are much more innovative than the Abram in service.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Yeah, this is true.... It just has a special place in my heart..... They had to use one as an ambulance for me when I was in the Army, Medivacs couldn't get in through the trees.....
So I am, highly, biased towards it.....
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Ahhh... no one realized it was a joke. I guess I should have said the SEALS
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I got my club...... for the seals......
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Saskatchewan seals?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
Got anything good against 'snow weasels'?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
[ April 15, 2002, 14:19: Message edited by: First of Two ]
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Yes he had a very interesting weekend, eh?
Posted by Jack_Crusher (Member # 696) on :
If the Jewish people are supposed to be God's "Chosen People", then why are they everybody's bitch?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, because a lot of people think the same thing.
[ May 04, 2002, 13:41: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I read about this OPEC stuff and witholding oil for a month and rising oil prices and I think: 'Isn't there a huge oil field off the coast of Newfoundland?'
Somebody please correct my apparent misunderstandings about the Hibernia Oil Field...
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
There's also a huge untapped oil field in Mexico and Texas. This oil field from what I am told has ore than enough oil to last the US for decades.
Posted by YrdMehc (Member # 417) on :
Ahhh, what do you let out our secret????
Posted by Spekkio (Member # 729) on :
Wait, the Marines are part of the Navy? I know they used to be but I thought they had their own branch now. What have I been missing?
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
The fact that the Marines are part of the navy, obviously.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
There's something like four times the amount of oil in Saudi Arabia in the northern Alberta oil sands. But all of it would have to be tapped pretty much instantly (forget a piddly little puddle like ANWR) in order to knock international oil prices down and wrest control of pricing from OPEC. It's an international market, and Cheneycorp will charge only as low a price as the Saudis are willing to charge.
[ May 09, 2002, 23:05: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Jack_Crusher (Member # 696) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: I have been told the conflicts in the Middle East could start a World War 3. Most if not all Middle East countries would band together and invade Israel. Then in return our ally asks us for help (GB and USA) and either we turn them down or we in fact do help. Now that is needed a spark to ignite the fire.
What do you think?
I asked my Political Science teacher this question, and he said that the above mentioned situation would not cause WW3.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Yeah, but what would she've said if you asked "if the Archduke gets shot in the head, would that start a world war?"
"Over a silly assassination? No, no, of course not."
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
It's a good thing your Political Science teacher knows everything. That was a close one.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Maybe he could sort out the Middle East situation for everyone.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I dunno about PoliSci teachers. Back in '89, mine was sure the Soviet Union wasn't going to break up, while I was sure it was.
I still have, somewhere, the final essay I wrote on the subject, which I got an A on, but on which he wrote (of my conclusions, including my predictions of possible revolts in semiautonomous provinces of Russia - Chechnya, anyone?) "Not Likely." I should dig it up and frame it.
There's nothing like outpredicting the "experts."
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, it wouldn't be a Flameboard if Rob didn't get to brag.
So, O' Wise One Who Outpredicts The Experts, what will happen here?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
"I see a great hand, reaching out of space..."
No, that was something else.
I suspect things will be pretty much the same. There will be talks, Israel will offer a peace settlement similar to or less than their last offer, (97% of what they wanted), the leadership of the PLO will manufacture another stupid reason to reject it, or if they do accept it, Al-Asqa, Hamas, Hizbollah and Islamic Jihad won't, and it will all start over again.
Except that if the PLO accepts it, there's a chance the local citizenry will too, and they'll be less local objection to properly wiping out the above-mentioned organizations once and for all, if they don't.
[ May 11, 2002, 11:34: Message edited by: First of Two ]
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