Sad.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
She had serious mental issues.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
What's even more horrible is how they make "Planned her death meticulously" stand out.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
And people wonder why I want to destroy the world.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
So that you can rob all the banks and no-one will be able to stop you. But your plan will be foiled, because everyone will be dead the money will be WORTHLESS, you FOOL!
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Was that supposed to be a funny remark, DT? 'Cause I sure as hell ain't laughing.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Not funny, but proper.....
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
It kinda makes you wonder if they make this stuff up.
quote: She had serious mental issues
Exactly.
[ May 22, 2002, 17:00: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Bold newbie ...
Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
Why is suicide so often associated with mental issues? She could have been in perfect mental health and still wanted to do it.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I think it's generally held that the desire to end one's life is in and of itself indicative of an absence of "perfect mental health."
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Oh, really? I'm sure victims of neck-down paralysation would disagree with you.
Extremely arrogant to assume that anyone who wishes to end his/her life *must* be mentally unstable...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
But if they want to kill themselves over their math homework? I think that makes one pretty weel screwed-up in the head.
Well, at least we know the US isn't the only country w/ this kind of shit going on...
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Then you should look at the Asian countries with higher rates of suicide due to stupid things. I remember a time where the pressure from my family to succeed at all costs drove me to jump off a building's roof. Maybe she's experienced something similar.
Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
The concept of destroying oneself is against nature, and so it's guarded by many safeguards in the human psyche. Many people who think they are suicidal are merely experiencing sadness and self-pity, and so the feelings of suicide are halted and taken up in the consciousness, to be dramatized and experienced. The ones that REALLY do it seldom think about it long, it just passes through.
I read Sierra Leone had the highest suicide rate in the world as of 2002, the conditions there are very beneficial towards that end.
If I'm sounding blunt it's because I've studied it in school and talked about it a lot with my former therapist, it's not disillusionment, just frankness.
Compared to not existing, even cleaning the filth of your hospitalized, senile father/mother is paradise, because life is the only thing you get for free, and your body. It's being in the game.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
On the other hand...
This girl had a problem. She devised a solution. She planned how to implement that solution. And then she put the plan to action, quite successfully, it seems (hardly the norm for suicide attempts). She was in complete control of her life, more than most of us can claim to be.
She could have left the world on a pretty positive note after all. Mental problems? If they weren't problems for *her*, then screw them. If somebody wants to file a complaint, the worst he can do now is the old burying-in-unholy-ground trick. And the girl seems to have taken care of that, too.
I hope she had a fun ten years here.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: On the other hand...
This girl had a problem. She devised a solution. She planned how to implement that solution. And then she put the plan to action, quite successfully, it seems (hardly the norm for suicide attempts).
Geez, sounds like you're almost talking about a suicide bomber.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So far I haven't heard of a suicide bomber who would actually have "solved" any problem by his or her actions. All those people manage to do is perpetuate the conflict they are in.
This little girl seems to have set a humbler and more personal goal, and seems to have met it admirably, with the minimum of fuss. I just wonder if she wasn't a little bit proud towards the end? Actually, I hope so. I'd hate my last thought to be one of regret.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Of course they're solving their problem.
Their problem: People of a different religion are in the Holy Land What they want to do: Remove people of a different religion from the Holy Land What they do: Kill people of a different religion The result: Less people in the Holy Land who belong to a different religion
It all makes sense if you look at it from a different perspective. Sure its not the "majority" perspective, its not even the average Islamic perspective....but if you are a part of that belief system, then the logic is sound.
Even peace wouldn't solve anything for them because there would still be the belief that "infidels infesting are the Holy Land" or some such.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'd hate to have a last thought.
Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
Yes, getting hit by a rifle round in the back of my head from a stray shot a mile away, whilst going on an autumn stroll through the park the day after my 80th birthday, that's a way to die!
Or, of course, in my bed, surrounded by family, also about 80-ish. Though not with the family carrying silver crucifixes and stakes, mind you.
And having your nuts bitten off by a Lapplander, that's a way to die!!! (had to) Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I remember a time where the pressure from my family to succeed at all costs drove me to jump off a building's roof."
Erm... I take it that it wasn't a very tall building? Considering that you're still here, and not a skeleton in a grave somewhere w/ extra joints...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Maybe he was rebuilt as some kind of half man, half electric turtle? And now he fights crime.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
GLAAD would be pleased. The world needs more role models, after all.
Posted by Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
But Turtles most importantly. The only role model Turles that have ever existed are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles and Franklin. Franklin wasn't much of a hero as he seemed to get lost in a cave every day. Or maybe he never got out. Turtles are slow, you know.
The Ninja Turtles served no other purpose than to Champion America's new and apparently quite popular movement of Obesity. It's a wonder this nation is in trouble when the children of yesteryear were exposed to Crime Fighting Green Machines who ate upwards of 7800 calorie diets consisting solely of Pizza. And while the Turtles may have had enough of an excercise regimen to burn such excesses, children do not. I was not, despite my best efforts, a ninja when I was 6.
It's too bad that the legacy was something far less "heart attack causing", such as the word "Tubular". The world would be a skinnier, and more radical place to live.
[ May 24, 2002, 21:19: Message edited by: Ulcer Mongoose ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Cowabunga, dude.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And the fact that Shredder (who was one of the only cartoon villians who was even half way competent) was voiced by Uncle Phil from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air makes him as good as Dolph in my world-view. And my world-view is correct.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: And the fact that Shredder (who was one of the only cartoon villians who was even half way competent) was voiced by Uncle Phil from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air
That was hands down the coolest thing I learned today. Liam makes the world's supply of puppies quite unneccessary.
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
Incidentally, are Europeans afraid of Ninjas? During my short living tenure in the country that spawned both World Wars, I was only able to watch the "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles". Now, from what I do know, europeans are indeed a sensitive lot, but Ninja seems not to be as offensive as, say, calling the queen a whore and showing her boobies, which the Sun is oft proud to do. So what, my Brittonish friends, the "fuck"?.
[ May 25, 2002, 23:45: Message edited by: The Ulcer Mongoose ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'll never be able to look at the Shredder quite the same way again...
Posted by thoughtcriminal84 (Member # 480) on :
As I understand it, they (THEM, the ones who make such weighty decisions for the rest of us) almost didn't allow the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to be called as such on saturday morning cartoons. Ninjas are apparently demonic things, best swept under the rug so the neo-conservative can't see them.
Southern Baptist were the cause, I think. Never trust a man who doesn't drink.
Unless they're a recovering alcoholic.
[ May 25, 2002, 23:28: Message edited by: thoughtcriminal84 ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Didn't the Brits get all smart and send away all those sorts of people off the edge of the Earth on a rickety old boat called the May-something?
Posted by thoughtcriminal84 (Member # 480) on :
Yep. They sent the other bad seeds to some place with a lot of marsupials, and those people learned to say "Mate" a lot, because they liked chess so much.
So you can fully blame the British for everything.
Including Earl Grey tea.
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
But mostly Australia.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Surely India is more to blame for Earl Grey Tea than us?
Just to lower the coolness level slightly, Shredder actually had three voices, I think. The Uncle Phil one (James Avery) was the first.
And, yeah, the word "Ninja" was taken out. As were lots of shots of Michaelangelo's nunchuka. Now, I don't know why nuchuka are worse than swords, but I'm not a clever censorship person. And anyone whose played Soul Caliber will tell you that Don had the best weapon anyway.
Incidentally, lots of censorship TV rules were relaxed over here as of late 2000. To celebrate, the BBC showed the laserdisc extended version of Terminator 2, all our Simpsons episodes became uncut (and instantly better than the US syndicated ones), and people were allowed to say "cunt" and "motherfucker", but only in reality shows. I still await the day when Buttercup can call Mojo Jojo a "Monkey-fucking monkey fucker" on early morning television.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
No, I really blame China for it. But in any case, I must blame somebody.
"Trust me, dude. You'll develop a taste for it."
Right.
Posted by Jernau Morat Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
Just to get back to the suicide issue for a minute [edit.. and rant a little ], I think that public understanding and awareness of suicide and "mental problems" is rather lacking. The girl killed herself because of how she was brought up, combined with the cumulative effect upon her consciousness of every other experience she had since she was born.
In a society such as ours, the mind is often subjected to conditions for which it simply isn't geared. If you grow up in a sheltered environment where everything (i.e. food, drink, clothing) is provided, their importance dwindles in your mind. It's possible that the only challenge (which, in a way, defines our existance) in the girl's life was in academic form. This would then have taken on an exaggerated importance in the girl's mind. It's easy for us to say, from our perspective, that killing yourself over a primary school maths exam is ridiculous, but when that's all you know, when it is, in effect, your life, it isn't so crazy.
I don't know how the education system is in other countries, but where I was brought up (Ireland), the psychological preparation of young (4-8 years old) children was inadequate, to say the least, and I see this more and more when I think back.
"God says we can't love others unless we love ourselves".
This is an example of the kind of thing that was flung at us in our early years at school. I remember being confused by this, and wondering vaguely "Why? And how can you make yourself love yourself?". But I was too young to articulate these questions. I understand the message (notwithstanding the God part) now, in retrospect, but only through a very general understanding of the importance of self-esteem and related concepts as seen from the point of view of evolutionary psychology (and personal experience). Without more active help from teachers (or anyone in a position of influence), young children don't really have a chance of grasping such esoteric concepts of value.
My point is basically that the people who formulate these little value-building exercises either aren't given due consideration by the education authorities, or just don't know how to research, and most importantly THINK about how to enable children to become well-adjusted to their society.
Oh yeah, btw, what's wrong with Earl Grey tea? I'm actually quite partial to it.
[ May 27, 2002, 10:29: Message edited by: Jernau Morat Gurgeh ]
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Nothing is wrong with Earl Grey. I just don't like the way it tastes, and when I was poor last year it seemed that was all we drank here at Ft. Scum due to my living with a tea-fetishist.
In more recent news: Vanilla Coke is worse. It's like drinking a pastry.
-------
As far as the actual topic goes: I don't respect suicide as an option except in special circumstances, such as when you're going to die anyway but you don't want to be in blinding pain the entire time you shuffle off the mortal coil.
It's sort of difficult to reconcile how one guy will gnaw off his own arm to escape from a burning car wreck, yet another will blow his head off just because he's in debt to the bank.
I've dealt with extreme depression, and I know there is no easy answers here. But the only thing that really kept me from the edge was the simple belief that life is too short anyway...
After you're dead, you're going to be dead for a looooonnnngggg fucking time. No reason to rush into it.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Plus, really...who wants to be a social worker?
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Exactly.
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
Calling all people who commit suicide mentally unstable is like calling everybody who disagrees with you evil. It's sweeping the problem under the rug. I sort of agree with Gurgeh that school was probably this girl's WHOLE life, and I don't think anyone who's never been to an Eastern European country should judge, because you can't imagine what it's like growing up with a different set of ideologies. On the other hand, when I lived in Taiwan every so often you'd hear a blurb on the news about a student who jumped off a building because of school stress. Basically the competition to get into good colleges is so great a student from junior high and on who wants to get ahead (without being a prodigy) has to spend about 2/3 of his waking hours studying, doing homework, and getting tutored. And then you have to remember three years' worth of materials from junior high to take exams for high school, then remember three years' of high school to take exams for college. People judge you by the prestige of your school. Nowadays they're trying to reform by taking on more of an American grading system by looking at grades over 3 years rather than just the exams, but that only means you have to study all along the way instead of cram. I think from when I was little it was understood that if you fail in school, you fail in life, and even now I maintain high grades out of habit, because I can't bear the thought of anything else.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Yeah, what IS the dropout rate amongst Asians these days? IS there one?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Not sure that's the best phase to use under the circumstances...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Not sure that's the best phase to use under the circumstances...
I wish this is the kind of technobabble they actually used on Trek
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Not sure that's the best phase to use under the circumstances...
What?
Oh! The sig! Haha! I didn't even think about it. It's made even funnier since my girlfriend (whose quote that is) is Korean.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I think he meant the phrase:
"drop out"
in relation to Ziyal's saying:
quote:On the other hand, when I lived in Taiwan every so often you'd hear a blurb on the news about a student who jumped off a building because of school stress.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Whereas I meant it in reference to:
quote:I think from when I was little it was understood that if you fail in school, you fail in life, and even now I maintain high grades out of habit, because I can't bear the thought of anything else.
And the like.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
quote:I think from when I was little it was understood that if you fail in school, you fail in life
Unfortunate but true... the sooner this dogma is abolished, the better.
Succeeding at any cost is all that seems to matter in today's society. Kids are under an extreme amount of pressure to perform. Basically they aren't even allowed to have a childhood.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I can say that's the truth.
My parents were so unaccepting of failure, or even mistakes, that it hinders me to this day... I became, for a long time, afraid to do new things because I might screw up. I developed a phobia of authority figures.
A while back, during a parental disagreement, my dad asked me "Why don't you come to us with your problems?" And I finally had the courage to respond: "Because you always BIT MY ASS OFF when I made a mistake!"
(God, if I EVER hear the 'if you don't work with your brain, you'll work with your back' lecture again, I'll STRANGLE someone)
It's still there. It's been almost impossible for me to speak to my bosses about mistakes I've made, because I'm always afraid they'll fire me for the slightest thing. So I have panic attacks instead, until the situations get resolved. I almost always make it worse than it needed to be.
[ May 29, 2002, 16:38: Message edited by: First of Two ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Explains a lot.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
That was mean VP, but damn funny.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, First of Two gets the prize, I did mean the drop out bit. But feel free to apply it to, well, pretty much anything really...
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote: Explains a lot.
No, none of you are authority figures, so I can tell you the bald-faced truth.
Besides, growing up that way also taught me to always be right in the first place. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I AM TEH AUTH0R1TY K1NG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
God, Cartman dropped the ball on that one.
Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
"...so I can tell you the bald-faced truth."
You always have to flaunt your damn national symbols, don't you?
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