Check out the new campaign PETA is planning to use to "get their message across" to kids.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah, what fuckers. CNN is showing the actual pamphlet: a blonde woman stabbing an animal with tons of gore. A freind of mine said that he'll beat the hell out of anyone giving his kids that crap. He'd be defending his children after all.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm not a supporter of using animals specifically for coats and other stuff like that, but the PETA reminds me of a bunch of rabid fanatics. This latest terror tactic is completely inappropriate and is an attempt to undermine a family structure by destroying a child's perspective of their parents. This is one of those wonderful cases where the cure is worse than the disease. Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, if "Mommy" is wearing a fur coat, it sounds justified to me. Children shouldn't be shielded from the truth about where and HOW animal-related consumer products are made.
This also isn't a "terror tactic." A "terror tactic" would be torching Mommy's fur closet.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...by destroying a child's perspective of their parents."
More like adjusting.
Yeah, maybe it's a little over the top, but I think we wouldn't be where we are now re: the humane treatment of animals if terror tactics weren't used once in a while.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Well, if "Mommy" is wearing a fur coat, it sounds justified to me. Children shouldn't be shielded from the truth about where and HOW animal-related consumer products are made.
This also isn't a "terror tactic." A "terror tactic" would be torching Mommy's fur closet.
Great: if "mommy" is a gynocologist, should the Right To life people get to shove abortion pics in the children's hands too? Traumatizing children is far more wrong than anything a furrier does to an animal.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
It just seems like PETA is trying to make people second class citizens to animals.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
I can't wait for them to get all animal products eliminated. Then they will start their jihad for the ethical treatment of plants. How dare those barbaric vegans destroy an entity that merely wants to grow and bask in the sunshine! That's inhumane!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The site says that the people handing out the pamphlets are dressed as animals. Someone should go up to them and yell at them for wearing fur.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
They really are nuts. . . Just remembered this article in my Sunday paper a few months ago.
I think that all of PETA's members should be turned loose in the woods just about the time a bunch of Black Bears are coming out of hibernation. Then they could "rationalise" with the bears how they have "saved them" while they are being eaten.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Is this some insane attempt at bad humour?
Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :
Snay, Cartman, you are missing the point. It is completely inappropriate to be showing those types of pictures to children. It is not up to PETA to adjust a childs outlook on their parents.
I'm not saying that children should always stay in the shadow of their parents, but this is well beyond the limits of reasonable action.
If you have a problem with something a person is doing, bring it up with them, not their children. Kids are exposed to enough garbage daily they don't need that added to it.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I got a 404 Error, then I tried the Fur link, and was told access was denied...
Screw PETA.....
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Acrobat is required, apparently...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
About caring more abut animals than people, I know vegetarians and vegans who ironically shop in a second-hand store chain based on slave labor. The chain, "UFF", collects donations of clothes from the citizens in UFF-boxes throughout the countries, supposedly under the claim of sending the clothes to third-world countries.
Now, UFF (an affiliate of the danish Tvind-sect) just collect the clothes, store them in warehouses, then the "volunteers" in the organization wash and repair the clothes, with collective penalties for bad productivity and failure to meet quotas. These clothes cost maybe a third of the money of an ordinary "second-hand" item because the organization doesn't spend any money processing it (the organization "volunteers" can't ask for money, it's a priviledge for them to work slave labor for the Leader), they just sell the clothes back in the same country they collected them, take all the money and send it to Denmark, to the mother organization.
Now, people I've talked to already know this but claim that, hey, this "cheap clothes" thing is too sweet to pass up! So much for ethics.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Bush could use the same tactics in his anti-abortion campaign: "Your mother murdered your unborn sister!"
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
How would that help? Kids can't vote.
(Not to start a flamewar, but does Bush have an "anti-abortion campaign"? That's not intended as a sarcastic question.)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Actually, as I believe Lee mentioned a while back, Bush has been fairly surprising on the whole abortion issue. I know he came out and said that he's against late-term abortion, but that's hardly reason to vindicate him.
And our student paper caused me to take note on this. After reporting the above, it then mentioned that being pro-abortion is a "progressive POV" and "supported by almost every person in the west". Which was interesting editorialising, and just a teensy weensy bit of bollocks.
And regarding Nim's comments, if there's one thing that pisses me off more than a Vegetarian, it's a Vegetarian who wears leather. Seriously, how stupid are they?
[ December 20, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: PsyLiam ]
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Must... refrain from... answering...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ok, you got me there. I'm a Quorn eating vegetarian and I like my leather jacket, though I do freeze my bollocks off in it at this time of year. I also have leather furniture if you want to be really pissed off. Although technically it's vegans who have issues with leather, not vegetarians (unless one starts eating their jacket, of course.) I suppose it's all about varying degrees of hypocrisy.
I tell you what's really hypocritical when it comes to us veggies, it's those of us who eat fish. That may sound like a no-brainier but there are people who consider themselves vegetarian and yet tuck in to a piece of cod on a regular basis. Crazy.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Well, the question I want to ask is...why do you not eat meat?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Health reasons mainly, metabolism you see. Aside from that vegetarian mince actually tastes better than the real thing. However I do have a pretty low opinion of hunting for sport, I mean it's not very sporting is it? One fox against fifty trained hounds and half a dozen double-barrelled shotguns? The least they could do is give the fox a grenade or two.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
This clothes-laudering cult, is this the one you were nearly sucked into, Nimmy?
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
quote: Originally posted by Reverend One fox against fifty trained hounds and half a dozen double-barrelled shotguns? The least they could do is give the fox a grenade or two.
Or a few WMD's
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Anthrax infected foxes trained to leap at hunters... It could work: it'd be much harder for a hunter to aim his gun wearing all that protective gear.
Wouldnt it be more fun to hunt the PETA member list? I call dibbs on Belindia Carlisle.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Kids can't vote."
But, someday, they will be able to. And they're more impressionable when they're young.
I'm not trying to argue the original point. I'm just saying that politicians' targeting children probably wouldn't be a wholly unproductive endeavor.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Kids can't vote."
But, someday, they will be able to. And they're more impressionable when they're young.
So by setting a good example and kicking any PETA member's ass that tries to approach your children, you're teaching them to protect their own children one day. Works for me.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Or to be intolerant of other peoples' views.
I'm not defending PETA, they're obviously a bunch of raving loonies but they're still entitled to an opinion. No matter how narrow minded or twisted it may be.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I have no obligation to respect a stupid opinion.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Check out the new campaign PETA is planning to use to "get their message across" to kids.
Re: the "cartoon" - since when does "Mommy" have access to a Rambo-style knife?
I wonder if the Klingon Empire has a PETA? Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Lee: No it wasn't that one, though they operate on about the same level.
No, the thing is, this UFF-org has collected clothes from people, who thought they donated to a better cuase, for 20-30 years. Now we find out that they've abused the contract of tax-reduction for support/aid to third world countries kind of like the scientologists managed to get off taxes due to convincing the government they were a "religion". The swedish gov. agency SIDA (Swedish International Development/Cooperation Agency) has stricken them from all their accords and our IRS has charged them with tax fraud and other sundry eco-crimes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
South Florida has a simmular scam: large bins for "clothes donations" are in many vacant lots. Turns out, the owners of those collection bins sells the stuff to thrift and second hand stores. Prick.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
A meal without meat is like, well, nothing I want to be involved in....
I do know a girl that doesn't eat meat, she got some bad beef one time, just as the mad cow/angry bull thing started getting big, and she never did like chicken or fish, piggy products scare her with the pigs liking mud to cool off with, and fish in this area are a do not eat item, that nice coal electric plant in town not having any affect on the lake it is next to....
And she has a nice leather jacket too....
Sport hunting is not really a sport, and should be banned. Although I could use a nice fox hat, or pair of gloves....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That girl obviously needs to be slapped in the face.
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: I have no obligation to respect a stupid opinion.
And now you know how we all feel whenever you open your mouth, Rob.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
ZING!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...piggy products scare her with the pigs liking mud to cool off with..."
Um... Hopefully she realizes that there's skin between the mud and the meat? I mean, when you buy ham in the store, it doesn't have mud in it. Does she think her own muscles are filled with all the dirt that's ever gotten on her body?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Oh, don't even start. We've all met people like this. People who hold irrational opinions that you just can't change, no matter what. They are always mentals or women. Just smack them about the face and move on.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Oh, don't even start. We've all met people like this. People who hold irrational opinions that you just can't change, no matter what. They are always mentals or women. Just smack them about the face and move on.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
There's one thing I just have to make clear here, something that has been forgotten by many people for way too long (not necessarily you people).
Meat is one of the most healthy, vitamin-packed, all-around vitalizing and healthy products on the planet. Two scientists (I read this in the leading swedish science magazine "Illustrerad Vetenskap" in 2002) tried living on just meat for a whole year. No veggies, no fruits, berries, milk or eggs. Just different kinds of meat. They turned out very healthy. No scurvey, no vitamin-loss, no hormone anomalies or increased aggressiveness.
Don't condemn the meat itself as unhealthy, it's the white bread buns, the sauce and the french fries that makes McDonalds/Burger King customers fat, NOT the meat. Change the meat handling process into a humane, proportional (using everything you get instead of throwing good meat away) industry. Don't take away 10000-year old instincts.
I went to a Mongolian Barbecue house for dinner tonight, prior to watching ROTK. The barbecue buffet let me put as much meat (all 7 kinds) as I wanted, along with noodles, vegetables and sauces, on a plate, then the cook took the plate and threw it all on the stove. I haven't been this meat-satisfied in years, there's no way I could part with this experience for the future.
If I ever get to New York, and have the money for it, you can bet I'll be visiting the Peter Luger Steakhouse. I hear it's good.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
it's the white bread buns, the sauce and the french fries that makes McDonalds/Burger King customers fat, NOT the meat.
Well, that and the fat. The meat on those burgers is not representative of meat any sane person would eat seperately.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Omega: You're probably right.
As for the whole sport hunt thing, every fish I've ever caught I've prepared and eaten (mainly pike, bass and the oh so rare swedish pike-perch). I've never used nets or dynamite. With the gear I'm using, the fish has about a 40% chance of winning over me, if it bites through the fishing line, spits out the lure or manages to convince me it's too small to keep.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Don't condemn the meat itself as unhealthy, it's the white bread buns, the sauce and the french fries that makes McDonalds/Burger King customers fat, NOT the meat.
I dunno. I'd say it's more the fact that they eat huge portions, eat it day in and day out, and never do any excercise. Those are far more responsible for obesity than an occasional Big Mac.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Personally, ever since I read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, I try to avoid McDonalds.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'm not entirely convinced that there's any meat in any of McDonalds' burgers, but I still wouldn't eat there.
From a health point of view the main problem with meat is the processed stuff like sausages, burgers, kebabs and what ever they really put in steak and kindey pies. Most of it is slaughter house waste material like bone fragments, skin, body fat and (I think) some of the less than desireable internal organs. Eating literally junk like that and as Liam says, a severe lack of exercise is what has made 1/3 of the US overweight and half of them clinically obese. With the UK population hot on their heels. There's also the danger of less than hygeneic farming practices, especially with storing slaughtered chickens. Then of course you have the possibility of having meat infected with nasty things like BSE, which comes from feeding livestock things that they shouldn't be fed. In the case of mad cow disease I think it was down to feeding the cattle ground up body parts from scabies (or was it scrapies?) infected sheep. Then you have farmers wanting to inject cattle with growth hormones and the possibility of GM livestock...that can't be good.
It's things like this that contributed (although not the sole reason, as I previously stated) to my becomming vegetarian. Basically I simply don't trust the mass meat market. I have no problem with anyone else eating meat, I think it should be a matter of personal choise since we are omnivores afterall and if you manage to catch a fish yourself and eat it, good for you, tuck in! However fishing for sport, while not quite as bad as fox/dear hunting is a little bit cruel in the hook department but I suppose that's just down to practicality.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I don't actually eat a lot of red meat. Mince (ground) beef is about as far as I go. I've really gone off roast meats in general, so roast beef is a rarity. I like a good steak - but a good steak is hard to find, and even harder to get cooked the way I like it, so I don't often bother. Mostly I eat chicken or pork - and that latter usually just some form of bacon. Because I like cooking curry, I'm getting more into vegetable dishes.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
How about all the genetically engineered vegetables and fruits that "science" is trying to push on people? If God had wanted a square watermelon he would have made it. There is NO WAY that the GE foodstuffs will prove to be anything but damaging to the human body.
I spoke with a dairyman one day and he was telling me some things that really makes you think. His theory is that the reason we see our young girls developing at earlier and earlier ages is that the milk industry pumps so much estrogen into cattle to increase milk production that it carries over to our kids. Thus your daughters are getting hit with an overload of estrogen from day one. This also could be a leading cause in the development of breast cancer as all the extra hormones screw up the natural maturation process.
There is a point where humanity needs to understand that the increase in production coupled with the detrimental effects is NOT progress.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: If God had wanted a square watermelon he would have made it. There is NO WAY that the GE foodstuffs will prove to be anything but damaging to the human body.
Well, between you and Prince Charles, I'm convinced.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Then of course you have the possibility of having meat infected with nasty things like BSE, which comes from feeding livestock things that they shouldn't be fed. In the case of mad cow disease I think it was down to feeding the cattle ground up body parts from scabies (or was it scrapies?) infected sheep.
A question, which may or may not have a hidden point: Exactly how many people ended up catching CJD from eating infected cattle?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, in theory we all were, they just don't know any way to find out if we were or not or how long it'll take.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So we're either all going to drop dead in 20 years, or, er, nothing at all will happen?
I think my main "beef" (HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA) with everyone who stopped eating beef when the Mad Cow thing was going on was that they didn't realise that, if it exists, they'd have caught in during the 10 years previously, and stopping them was just a weensy bit too late to do anything.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There's a neato Bruce Sterling story ("Sacred Cow") about some Bollywood filmmakers wandering around a Britain where said disease turned out to be way more pervasive than it fortunately appears to be in reality.
quote: "You work too hard," Bubbles said. "That historical we just did, about the Moon, yaar? That one was stupid crazy, darling. That music boy Smith, from Manchester? He don't even speak English, okay. I can't understand a word he bloody says."
"My dear, that's English. This is England. That is how they speak their native language."
"My foot," Bubbles said. "We have five hundred million to speak English. How many left have they?"
Re: Crazy doomsday luddite talk: Whatever. Manmade ecological alterations have already been killing us for millennia now. (See: Influenza, origins of, or the kinds of diseases hunter-gatherers got compared to the kinds the first settled farmers got. If you want to do away with something that kills lots and lots of people each year, do away with bird and pig domestication. Those things are murderous!) We might as well feed the planet safely while we go.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
And, hey, fun serendipity: As of today I live very near ground zero for the first case of BSE in the United States.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You live near Rosanne Barr?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, this is going to be fun.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
quote:You live near Rosanne Barr?
Key words: "as of today". B)
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
As insane as the PETA leaders are, I'd almost be willing to believe that PETA terrorists introduced mad cow to the United States.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
PETA wouldnt do anything to kill the noble Cow. Only to traumatize little children. Prahaps we could make a jacket from Belinda Carlisle.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
PETA would not kill the noble cow. Or Belinda Carlisle. However, Anna Nicole may have cause for concern.
So as a vegetarian who does wear leather shoes and belts (durability/stink still being a serious issue with synthetics), I think PETA is pretty alright. What you have to understand that while PETA's primary goal is the ethical treatment of all animals, their primary tactic for achieving this is to raise awareness of the issue. Believe it or not they trust that moral people, once they become aware of what is happening, will do something about it. Mostly for now they want for you to think about what you are doing. Right now, on this forum, we're all talking about it. We're all discussing how we feel about the ways in which we use animals and animal products. To some degree their plan has worked.
The goals they are trying to achieve are quite direct and noble. So while their tactics may be absurd and outrageous there is a certain method to it. And so what if they come off as a bunch of lunatics? Because that means more people talking and thinking about the ways in which we treat animals, it's the issue that matters not the organization. You may not agree with their more extreme views, but at least now you're conscious of it.
Without anyone to champion their rights animals silently suffer senseless and impossible violence sheerly for the convenience of a population largely ignorant of this sacrifice. You and I and probably everyone save the most devout vegans play some part in that. PETA wants for you to understand this. They want you to think about this. And hopefully some of you not too arrogant or proud to actually examine your own lifestyle may eventually come to find that with awareness of this cruelty, that there are certain conveniences you can do without. And if that means you stop eating red meat, but still occasionally have fish, or you don't eat any meat but can't let go of that leather jacket, or even if it means you buy a leather jacket instead of the trench you were looking at, well then at least you've done something. You've thought about it and you've made some concession.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You're seriously suggesting that buying a leather jacket rather than a big trenchcoat is really going to make even the slightest difference, at all?
So, once again, I ask: Why don't you eat animals? Because if it's because of the cruelty aspect, then I'm having a bit of trouble taking you seriously.
"No, I won't eat meat because of how they treat the animals."
"So why are you wearing leather shoes?"
"I don't want my feet to smell."
Point!
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
So, if animals are "humanely" put down is the meat/leather OK?
It's amazing that we have people more concerned about the slaughter of animals than humans.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
To quote a certain someone who was VERY concerned about the slaughter of humans:
"A society can be judged by the way it treats its animals."
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
So what does that say about all those animals wearing $400 designer outfits and being toted around in $1,500 Gucci handbags by "people" wearing cosmetics made from animals and having more silicon than the San Fransisco bay area?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You know, I would not be totally unwilling to sign up for that all-meat diet myself. (Discounting the fact that I am quite likely to die horribly as my brain is eaten from the inside out now.) However, I love how extremely angry and defensive dedicated omnivores get when someone expresses a simple dining preference. "What? No meat?! HOW DARE YOU! I WILL EAT YOU AND ARRGHGHGH!!!!!!!!" I mean, come on, it's more for the rest of, guys.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: You're seriously suggesting that buying a leather jacket rather than a big trenchcoat is really going to make even the slightest difference, at all?
Well obviously it ain't going to change the world. OTOH if you make that small sacrifice this time because your conscience is bothering you, then perhaps you might be inclined to make a more serious one sacrifice the future and opt for PVC or Gortex� or whatever it is the vegan kids are wearing these days.
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: So, once again, I ask: Why don't you eat animals? Because if it's because of the cruelty aspect, then I'm having a bit of trouble taking you seriously.
Well if you are seriously asking why I am a vegetarian, I can tell you that it is for a number of reasons. Namely health, environmental, spiritual and, yes, moral concerns. Do I need to be a zealot for you to take me seriously? Does that ever work? More importantly would my being a zealousness help you take the concept itself more seriously? I have my beliefs and I choose to do what I feel I am able. I lack the discipline to follow the vegan path, and frankly I'm tired of plastic shoes tearing themselves to shreds (rancid, awful shreds) in a couple weeks. I am weak. I am a hipocrite. I do what I can.
Just so we're clear. This isn't a full time thing for me. Vegetarianism is not my defining aspect. And importantly, I'm not trying to tell you how you ought to live your life. It isn't my place and I happen to know it wouldn't do any good. It's not pleasant to think about. There are a lot of creatures that we put through a great deal of misery for our convenience. Visit an abatoire if you don't believe me. You don't have to have any reaction to this information at all. I just feel (as does PETA) that people ought to know where hamburgers and hot-wings and leather trenches and fur coats come from. Maybe you have no reaction to this information, maybe you do, but if you don't know the whole story how can you make an informed decision?
Also I am sorry I thought you were gay when I first came to the board. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
When in any moral doubt, I just listen to Monster Magnet for guidence.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Feeling like a Space Lord are you???
Jason's sig. is almost right, he just needs to learn to hate everything.... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Not everything! I'll always love women.
mmmmmm....women.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Years before I met her, my wife was vegetarian. Something to do with being served horse while on a school trip to the Soviet Union. She packed it in after a couple of years though, missed bacon sandwiches too much. 8)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So she wont eat a lean animal like Horse, but she'll eat a pig?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
That reminds me of the folly in thinking that human breastmilk feels 'icky' to drink but the juices from a 500-pound, ammonia-stinking, regurgitating farm animal doesn't. Aah, the human mind.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'm sure that sucking milk straight out the underside of a large bovine would be even more "icky" to most people than getting it from a woman.
I know I'd much rather have the woman, at any rate.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
...or you could just skip the whole issue by drinking soy milk Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or not drink any milk at all. The concept is certainly disgusting enough.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
How exactly does one milk a soy bean anyway?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
They milk a Chia-Cow.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: OTOH if you make that small sacrifice this time because your conscience is bothering you, then perhaps you might be inclined to make a more serious one sacrifice the future...
Well, yeah, but buying a slightly smaller coat is a sacrifice? "Hey, look, Hitler only killed 1000 people on that day, rather than 1005, so really, he was good and great and super. Woo!"
quote:I just feel (as does PETA) that people ought to know where hamburgers and hot-wings and leather trenches and fur coats come from. Maybe you have no reaction to this information, maybe you do, but if you don't know the whole story how can you make an informed decision?
Oh, yeah, I know. Although I really am refusing to read "Fast Food Nation" in case it puts me off of fast food completely. But, well I dunno. I don't want to be a super pro-meat crazy dude like the sort Simon mentions, but I've had to put up with vegetarians ruining dining experiences on more than one occasion. Plus, seriously, I really can't get the wearing leather thing. I know you admit it's hypocritical, but still...it disgusts you that much to eat meat, but you'll wear it? Sorry, but I just...don't get it.
If it was simply a taste thing, then fair enough. Although I'd probably still shout at you, in the same way that I shout at people who won't try food other than a Big Mac. (And as for the health thing, as has been pointed out, not eating meat is actually quite bad for you, health wise).
quote:Also I am sorry I thought you were gay when I first came to the board.
I...what? Who?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Hang on. Snay thought you were gay too, didn't he?
Pattern... emerging!
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: So what does that say about all those animals wearing $400 designer outfits and being toted around in $1,500 Gucci handbags by "people" wearing cosmetics made from animals and having more silicon than the San Fransisco bay area?
Roughly the same things it says about people who put forth that showing concern for animal welfare somehow downplays human suffering.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...it disgusts you that much to eat meat, but you'll wear it?"
Well, this is only hypocritical if the person is refusing meat on the ground of animal cruelty. There aren't any health risks in wearing a leather jacket, that I know of. Except that you might get beat up if it's goofy-looking.
BTW, Liam, if you'd stop looking at naked pictures of Cirroc Lofton, people would stop thinking you're gay.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
There was a scare in Vancouver about arsenic laced turkeys this x-mas. Aparently some animal rights activists said they thawed some turkeysand injected arsenic into them. I'm not sure if it was PETA.
I'm all for seeing an end of animal cruelty and abuse. But some people are just too fucked.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, once they're found, use them as tasters to find the poisoned turkeys. If if they don't get poisoned, you've just forced them to eat a bunch of meat, which still seems a worthwhile punishment.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
(Post removed: I'm up too late, and the joke was far too obscure.)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: BTW, Liam, if you'd stop looking at naked pictures of Cirroc Lofton, people would stop thinking you're gay.
Now now, I haven't done that for many, many months.
Actually, does anyone still have that photo? I lost it long ago. And it might be useful for, er, blackmail purposes. Or something.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, Fast Food Nation is defintely worth reading, even if it just makes you more informed. I suppose there's the potential to put you off anything other than food you've grown or produced yourself, but that'd be an extreme case. I've been to McDonalds since I read it - one time we were at a shopping centre in Brighton and McDonalds was all they had there; another was when I picked Kate up from the hospital with this plaster cast on her nose and she was hungry: chicken McNuggets were about all she could handle. Then there's our local burger joint, Uncle Sam's, which was once one of several in the county but now seems to be the only survivor: it does amazing burgers, but hasn't had any sort of re-decoration in twenty years. If I started to ask myself how it manages to stay afloat and hold its own against the newer McDrive-thru, or the even newer KFC, I'd probably never go there again.
As the above milk-source debate proves, just about everything we eat requires a degree of blissful ignorance on our part; just don't get too ignorant, or let the food-producers dictate what you're ignorant about. That's the lesson I took away from Fast Food Nation.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The book almost put me off mass-processed meat entirely. When I first read Fast Food Nation, I immediately asked my mom if we could please find a local butcher and start shopping there. Of course, then I forgot all about it and no longer care. Funny, that.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yup. Now all you need to do is do the same thing with the silly religious stuff, and everyone will love you.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
You have a burger place called "Uncle Sam's"?
I'd be tempted to start a burger joint here called "John Bull's", but no-one in the US would get it.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I don't get it.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Uncle Sam personification of the US
John Bull personification of the UK
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
John Bull stole Churchill's body!
He also looks like he's picking you out of a lineup....
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yes, Uncle Sam's. I'll get a picture of it for you.
I have never seen this "John Bull" before. Are you sure you haven't made him up?
At least he gets a surname, I suppose. Although "John Bollocks" would have been better.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by WizArtist: So what does that say about all those animals wearing $400 designer outfits and being toted around in $1,500 Gucci handbags by "people" wearing cosmetics made from animals and having more silicon than the San Fransisco bay area? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roughly the same things it says about people who put forth that showing concern for animal welfare somehow downplays human suffering.
I'm not putting down people concerned about animal welfare. I'm putting down those that put animal welfare above the welfare of human beings and are on a crusade to convert everyone else to their self proclaimed morally superior point of view.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You're saying animals feel pain?
...that explains a lot now that i think of it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, John Bull is real. Or as real as an imaginary character gets. But he just was never as. . . pervasive, is that the right word? . . . as Uncle Sam.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Does anyone younger than 50 remember him?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, probably not, unless they know a bit of history. I'm aware there was such a character but I've never seen him used anywhere in my lifetime.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I've heard of "John Bull."
This page has a small illustration of the character.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Er, at a guess I'd say that's where Tim got the images he posted, Roberto. . . Still, good link though, explains the origins and all.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I believe League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen makes passing reference to him. But it's still a load of hogpoopoo.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
*blinks*
Ah, didn't see Tim had already posted images. Must not have loaded before I clicked 'next.'
Either that, or spending the last 4 days battling the Death Virii of 2003-04 has left me more discombobulated than I believed.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You've had more than one?
Besides, everyone's had it. And they've been content to exagerate it up to "flu". Tsk. Silly Americans.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Nah, this wasn't the flu. The flu is a respiratory virus.
Whatever this was it affected way more systems than that.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So, a cold then?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Also -
"The symptoms of influenza appear suddenly and often include:
Fever of 100�F (37.8�C) to 104�F (40�C), which can reach 106�F (41.1�C) when symptoms first develop. Fever is usually continuous, but it may come and go. Fever may be lower in older adults than in children and younger adults. Shaking chills. Body aches and muscle pain (often severe), commonly in the back, arms, or legs. Headache. Pain when you move your eyes. Fatigue, a general feeling of sickness (malaise), and loss of appetite. A dry cough, runny nose, and dry or sore throat. You may not notice these during the first few days of the illness when other symptoms are more severe. As fever goes away, these symptoms usually become more evident. "
It may be a respitory virus, but it affects more than your breathing. What other symptoms did you have? Because if it's bad, I'm not kissing you.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I believe there are both respiratory flus and gastro-intestinal flus.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I was under the impression that actual influenza is a bacterium.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Then those flu jabs are going to be a big con, aren't they?
Er, it is viruses you can immunise against, isn't it, and not bacertia?
(Anyway, this just relates to the pet peeve of mine that "having a cold" is considered nothing in today's society, for some reason. So people always bump it up to flu or higher, even though flu actually has fairly serious symptoms and is quite debilitating.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I'm pretty sure only viri are immunized against. Bacteria are treated with antibodies.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Antibiotics, surely? I mean, you produce antibodies yourself, so you aren't really treated with them, as such.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Hm... I thought they were two different words for the same thing. It seems not.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
*sings*
"Tim is an idiot, Tim is an idiot"
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Fever of 100�F (37.8�C) to 104�F (40�C), which can reach 106�F (41.1�C) when symptoms first develop. Fever is usually continuous, but it may come and go. Fever may be lower in older adults than in children and younger adults. Check. Shaking chills. Check. Followed by feeling too hot. Followed by chills again. Body aches and muscle pain (often severe), commonly in the back, arms, or legs. Check. Joint pain, especially. Headache. No. Pain when you move your eyes. No. Fatigue, a general feeling of sickness (malaise), Check. and loss of appetite. Naw, man, I was fucking starving half the time. A dry cough, runny nose, and dry or sore throat. Nope.
What other symptoms did you have? Because if it's bad, I'm not kissing you. Tease.
Nausea. (Which, when combined with hunger, is even more annoying than standard nausea). "Get to the bathroom NOW" stomach cramps. Gaseous anomalies. Dizziness & blurred vision. Much more irritibility than is usual. (Which is really, really bad.) Suddenly thinking that Julie's Eeyore plush toy is staring at me. Sleep paralysis. Free associating everything anybody says to me.
Okay, maybe I DID have the flu.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
quote:Suddenly thinking that Julie's Eeyore plush toy is staring at me.
It probably was staring at you, it is all part of the surveillance techniques of the Pooh Liberation Organization (PLO.)Be afraid, be very afraid.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Now, much as I am loathe to channel such a wholesome fellow as Tim on himself, I am just obligated to point out the GIANT FLAW in his thinking that antibodies, which are heavy proteins produced by bloodcells when properly stimulated by antigens and act against those antigens in a response by the immune system, and antibiotics, which are substances produced by or derived from microorganisms that inhibit or kill other microorganisms, are the SAME THING, when anyone with a half-decent education knows they are not even remotely alike.
DO NOT CONFUSE THEM AGAIN.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ny-Quill makes me sleepy.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
No, really, this is a pre-ganglionic fiber/post-ganglionic nerve thing! The two are simply not interchangeable and to think otherwise is wrong and evil, dammit.
[ January 07, 2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sleeeeepy.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
MY CONFUSION HAS BEEN RESOLVED. FURTHER DISCUSSION IS UNNECESSARY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONCERN. REMEMBER TO TIP YOUR WAITRESS.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
ZZZZzzzzzz.....
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: REMEMBER TO TIP YOUR WAITRESS.
They don't like that. It spills the coffee.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
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