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Proposed tax restructuring regarding health care
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,12,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As anyone who's been paying attention knows, I'm no fan of government-run healthcare. It's just too darned inefficient. At present charitable donations are simply not considered taxable income. I have a proposal that might increase efficiency of actually helping people, while simplifying the tax code. We just say "Okay, the government is using 10% of its budget to provide the poor with health care. If you donate 10% of what you would normally pay in taxes to an approved charity for that purpose, you only have to pay us 90% (or slightly less) of your total tax bill." Charities being almost universally more efficient at actually doing good than any government, more good would be done dollar-for-dollar, and I think more money would end up being donated as well.<br /><br />So what do you think? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>WizArtist</b> <br /><small>Member # 1095</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,14,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:22 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think that the pharmaceuticals and the lawyers would still be jacking healthcare through the roof.<br /><br />Healthcare and News reporting should not be a "For Profit" endeavor. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Grokca</b> <br /><small>Member # 722</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,14,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's just too darned inefficient </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not sure how you figure that, In Canada we pay on average $18.00 US for administartive cost to $95.00 US in the USA. Our doctors make less money which is also a savings on our system, we can now almost access our health records from anuwhere in our country. We pay less per person for health care than Americans do, we live longer, our infant mortality rate is less that yours.<br />Seems the only thing the American system is more efficient at is putting people into the ground sooner. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mucus</b> <br /><small>Member # 24</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,15,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> a) There would be huge hurdles in deciding what counts as a valid charity for this program i.e. religious groups that happen to do health-related work<br />b) regulation of medical standards would not be fun<br />c) political difficulty in barring flakey groups like homeopathic medicine, acupuncture, herbalists, etc.<br />d) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Charities being almost universally more efficient at actually doing good than any government </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Source! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>WizArtist</b> <br /><small>Member # 1095</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,15,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:04 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> All government is truly good at doing is bleeding the people for taxes. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mucus</b> <br /><small>Member # 24</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,15,7,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:07 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yes, because people are so good at governing and organising themselves. <br />Lord of the Flies anyone? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cartman</b> <br /><small>Member # 256</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,15,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <i>Healthcare and News reporting should not be a "For Profit" endeavor.</i><br /><br /><i>All government is truly good at doing is bleeding the people for taxes.</i><br /><br />Well, what's it going to be? A government-regulated system where everybody makes a contribution but is assured free medical service or a privatized industry where profit comes first and the quality of health care second? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>WizArtist</b> <br /><small>Member # 1095</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,16,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:06 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A system that pays the needs of the few to service the needs of the many. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,16,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Omega: So, what you're saying, essentially, is that something like MedicAid should be converted from a tax-funded organization that the public has to pay for, to a charitable tax write-off to which people can choose to contribute, or choose not to?<br /><br />I don't really know what the numbers would be, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there would be a noticeable decrease in the amount of money available for such organizations, if a program like that were implemented.<br /><br /><blockquote>"...government-run healthcare [is] just too darned inefficient."</blockquote><br />Funny how the people who actually have it seem to be happy with it. And how the people in the US complain so much about our current system.<br /><br />If privatized insurance were really so much better, wouldn't it be the Canadians buying drugs from us? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cartman</b> <br /><small>Member # 256</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,18,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "And how the people in the US complain so much about our current system."<br /><br />Or about socialism. I've never had any complaints, but if Omega says it sucks for all involved, then who am I to argue?<br /><br /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Omega:<br /><strong>It's just too darned inefficient.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your system may be. Ours isn't. Don't knock it until you've tried it, as the old adage goes. Or at least set aside your innate aversion to socialism for once and examine the Canadian and European health care schemes that *gasp* ARE efficient with some objectivity (or whatever passes for that in Tennessee) before you write the whole thing off as a crazy liberal fantasy. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Saltah'na</b> <br /><small>Member # 33</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,20,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Our doctors make less money which is also a savings on our system"<br /><br />Watch your mouth. That statement is one of the many reasons for the so-called "brain drain" to the US. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Grokca</b> <br /><small>Member # 722</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,19,21,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 19, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Our doctors make less money which is also a savings on our system"<br /><br />Watch your mouth. That statement is one of the many reasons for the so-called "brain drain" to the US.<br /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I work in the healthcare field and have talked to alot of Doctors and nurses that have gone to the states and returned. Most site, strangely enough the high cost of healthcare as one of the reasons they returned. Also they didn't feel safe in the US' large cities. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Balaam Xumucane</b> <br /><small>Member # 419</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,20,2,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 20, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:23 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It does sort of run contrary to the hippocratic oath if you've got to check and make sure the patient is covered before performing a potentially life-saving procedure.<br /><br />I have a question for the 'nucks. I know the system is socialized and 'universal', but I'm unclear on exactly how this works. I've been wondering how well a parallel system would work. Where everyone would have access to universal health care, but there are also private (and perhaps more specialized) hospitals and care-systems to drive medical advances, etc. You know for people too good or too rich to be mixing it up with the rabble. I can imagine it working, but I can also foresee there being a lot of complications. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Wraith</b> <br /><small>Member # 779</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,20,10,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 20, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, in the UK we have private medical companies and hospitals, as well as the NHS. Generally speaking the system works OK except when certain politicians introduce targets that are politically rather than medically motivated. The NHS does need streamlining though; the amount of managers and paperwork especially needs looking at. <br /><br />Omega's idea might be feasible, but it could lead to significant differences in the quality of care between rich and poor areas. Some charities may set themselves up exclusively in richer areas; they get more money and so have better equipment and can pay better wages, therefore drawing good doctors away from poorer regions. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Grokca</b> <br /><small>Member # 722</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,0,20,11,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">January 20, 2004</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a question for the 'nucks. I know the system is socialized and 'universal', but I'm unclear on exactly how this works. I've been wondering how well a parallel system would work. Where everyone would have access to universal health care, but there are also private (and perhaps more specialized) hospitals and care-systems to drive medical advances, etc. You know for people too good or too rich to be mixing it up with the rabble. I can imagine it working, but I can also foresee there being a lot of complications. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">According to the Canada health Act, private hospitals are illegal, although the idea is being kicked around, usually to much public resistance.<br />We do have specialised hospital, Sick Childrens, Regional Cardiac care centres, London General Hospital specialises in severe trauma, usually to the head. There are regional cancer centres. A lot of research is done in co-ordination with universities.<br />The provinces here provide healthcare but the are governed by the Canada Health act, a federal bill.<br /><br /> <a href="http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/chaover.htm" target="_blank">Canada Health Act overview</a> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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