As an Anglo-Sicilian I don't think I can really say much more than WTF?
"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated."
Isn't this what the Republicans are already doing though?
"A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell."
What pipe has this guy been smoking from, anyone with 2 brain-cells to rub together would know the greeks thrashed the persians on several separate occassions and then began infighting culminating in the Spartans sacking Athens. Point being, one culture and one language didn't stop generations of ceaseless warfare between the greeks, the Olympics was the exception, not the norm.
"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'x! xenophobes' halt discussion and debate."
Again, this is exactly what the Republicans are already doing, albeit not to promote equality but to quash it.
'It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."'
Final thoughts: once again, this the path America treads thanks to men like this Dick Lamm.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
A few unconnected thoughts:
While I disagree with his general conclusion, there are many points in there which I believe are essentially correct if overly-simplified.
I have no problems with the belief that if you could have two identical nations, one with a uniform ethnic population and one with a number of competing minorities, the uniform nation will likely last longer. While some of his examples are a bit odd, you could easily throw in Austria-Hungary or Yugoslavia to bolster his case. Conversely, China (as probably the one nation in all of history that has lasted the longest in more or less the same geographical form) no doubt owes much of its stability to a large Han majority. There actually was a good article on the development of self-segegration of various ethnic groups in Canada in today's Toronto Star and its not hard to see how this would lead to instability.
However, I do disagree with the implied assertion that stability is necessarily a good thing. In a sort of societal echo to the "survival of the fittest" the nations that progress the fastest seem to be the ones that are constantly struggling against the other, both within the nation and without. (Not that its particularly fun to actually live within them)
China was able to sit back with a stable government for hundreds of years at a time while the various peoples of the British isles were routinely killing and overthrowing each other for a squalid little wet island. Who got the grand unstable overseas empire? Britain. Nothing spurs empire building like realising that your infighting homeland is small, wet, and dreary, and that what you really want to do is get the hell out of dodge and take it out on someone else.
But I digress, back to the speech.
I would also agree with his statement that all cultures are not more or less equal. That sounds controversial but is fundamentally obvious. All cultures have their good points and down points, and the mathematical odds of all cultures being equal is almost impossible. I have no doubts that Blacks and Hispanics have higher drop-out rates due to BOTH prejudice and a culture that discourages education. Once again however, I would strongly disagree with the implied assertion that white American culture is automatically the best, for the obvious reasons.
What does this all mean in the end? I dunno, but you can see that he raises some interesting points even if you can't agree with his conclusions (and assumptions).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The problem with guys like this is that they look to some idealized version of America's past (a 1950's Tv show version probably) and overlook the cultures that united to make America the strong country it's been for so long.
Is his version of America somehow devoid of the Irish and Italian immigrants that flooded into our country just prior to WWII?
A lot of bozos thought those immigrants were somehow making America "less pure" by their diversifying our culture.
Most of the pre-WWII immigrants were working menial jobs in the owrst conditions our country had to offer and yes, they also had a high drop out rate, language dfficulties and were considered to be generally "uneducated" by those in power at the time.
Being from Miam, I'm of a split opinion on some of this: Miami has become a latin version of "Chinatown" where if you are not hispanic, you dont belong- and they'll let you know it.
Many times I had prospective employers say- "you really need to learn to speak spanish if you want to work in Miami at all".
That kind of burns my ass, but I cant discount that most latins are just as hard-working as anyone born in this country.
What the fuck does someone from Colorado know about multicultrualism anyway? I'd like to see the demographics on his WASPy state....I cant imagine he has any experience with integrating cultures into America's whole.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature;"
Much like the Germans in that respect. Except, after they united and started expanding, half the rest of the world showed up and beat them into submission.
"There was no applause.
"A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today."
Hopefully it was more the sort of silence you get when a bunch of people attend a meeting they think is about cutting back on overpopulation and illegal immigration, and then suddenly realize that it's turning into a Klan rally.
"It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book '1984.'"
Well, I suppose that explains all the craziness. Anything is possible in the universe where "reminiscent of" means "the exact opposite of".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
If you really want a plan for destroying america, I'd start by fostering an atmosphere of isolationism fear towards other cultures.
Then I'd undermine the principles our country represents: seperation of church and state, the right to own land, the right to a speedy trial by your peers, seperation between the state and federal government, Freedom of speach and the right to protest, America standing for liberty and a chance for immigrants to start a new life free from opression.....
As long as the Republicans dont trample on any of those ideals, we have nothing to worry about.
Fuuuuuck.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: China was able to sit back with a stable government for hundreds of years at a time while the various peoples of the British isles were routinely killing and overthrowing each other for a squalid little wet island. Who got the grand unstable overseas empire? Britain. Nothing spurs empire building like realising that your infighting homeland is small, wet, and dreary, and that what you really want to do is get the hell out of dodge and take it out on someone else.
Er... you do know that there wasn't actually a concerted plan for expanding the British Empire, don't you? And that there was actually a substantial reluctance to expand throughout much of the nineteenth century (Except where British interests were threatened). I would also debate the dreary aspect of your description of the UK. Not to mention the 'take it out on someone else' thing. We usually only shot 'em if they shot first. Well, sometimes.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Hybridization = strength.
(Well, except in those cases where it doesn't.)
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I say get rid of the Hypenated Americans. Either you are an American or you are not. That means you work with others to secure a common good without infringing upon the rights and beliefs of others. Provided of course they don't happen to be Jeffrey Dahlmer, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Jason Aba....oops.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Let's set up the labor camps in Wyoming!
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
oy
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
No one's doing anything in Wyoming.
...that's what it says on their liscence plate anyway.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
And we all know the place doesn't exist anyway.
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
...
I get the impression this guy had a little Hitler plush toy as a kid, for some reason.
And forgive me, I just couldn't resist, but dare I say: Lamm to the slaughter?
Posted by Albertus (Member # 1635) on :
Actually, the simplest solution would be that the US came back under UK control. A 'Protecterate'(SP) if you will, and forget all this crap about 'special relationships' and independence.
The US gets a history, and the UK gets to make sure the world doesn't get blown up.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, as far as crazy fun-poking goes, surely you have things the wrong way around, with the only question being whether London is replaced by Brussels or by Washington D.C.?
Posted by Albertus (Member # 1635) on :
Multi-culturism is a dead cert fact. Please spend your time denying it, if thats your thing.
:wave:
PS. Admin, you need to get better Emoticons, these ones suck.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Articulate your responses and you will only need the emoticons as a puncutation after sarcastic remarks.
Once the US assumes control over the UK, we will make huge public works project of digging a tunnel to connect our new aquisition to the US mainland....thus repairing both economies and reducing inemployment to zero.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I don't see the point. We have 0% inemployment here in the UK right now. I'm not sure about the figures for unemployment, however. 8)
Or did you mean "zero in employment," in which case both our nations are making great inroads on that count, by transfering manufacturing to China and Malaysia, and call centres to India?
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
Besides, I find his point somewhat contradictory. Wasn't America as we know it today founded on multiculturalism? "Give me your poor, huddled masses, etc..."
Therefore, it would be, to quote the early sixties, 'un-American' to say that multiculturalism is bad for America..?
Unless the Lamm was making a racial comment, in which case he may soon find himself on the Lamm, due to the Lamm-basting he will hopefully receive.
But here we at least see what's right with America: free speech. No matter how stupid it is, you can still say it. Take that Saddam!
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Multiculturalism never stays. It's human nature that one must be dominate. When a majority culture starts accepting elements of other cultures it eventually leads to the rise to dominance of the minority culture and the decline of what was once the majority culture. It will always happen. If you try to equalize the different cultural components where none is dominant you create a stagnation that causes polarization and further separation of the cultures. This only serves to further bigotry and the great social engineers have only accomplished the exact opposite of their intentions.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
For example?
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Look at Rome. Rome ruled what was then the known world. When it conquered Greece, it started to assimilate Greek culture into its own as a way of "Romanizing" the citizens. Soon enough the Greek idealisms became the vision of the Roman intellectuals and began to permeate throughout the Roman empire. Rome was no longer the conquering nation but a conglomerate of provinces that ended up splitting along political lines. Rome was weakened and conquered itself.
Look at America. The caucasion culture had dominated since the inception of the nation. In this century pluralism began to become the theme along with "social agendas". It was preached that people should only have 2 children and wait until their late 20's or 30's, so many have done just that. Meanwhile ethnic groups have typically not limited their reproductive numbers and tend to start much earlier. In just a few short decades, the percentage of ethnics to caucasions has swung drastically. With it has come an upswing of the ethnic cultures to the point that even caucasion youth have embraced it as their own identity. This is leading to the decline of the caucasion culture in America. Barring a second civil war in the U.S., I sincerely believe there will be a time where the caucasion will be the minority and be on the lesser end of everything from business to politics. More and more we see Latino and African influences driving both political and social agendas.
Before I get blasted as being a bigot, I'm not saying that ALL other cultures other than conservative caucasion are WRONG. God knows there is as much wrong with the caucasion culture as there is in any other. But we see the extreme polarization that is occuring in America. It started along racial lines and has progressed to political and social arenas.
I remember reading an quip by Charles Barkley, the former NBA allstar, when some of his friends were deriding him for voting Republican. They said: "How can you vote for those rich people?". He said: "I AM one of the rich people."
Well, I know I'm about to be blasted... so do I get a blindfold and last cigarette?
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
Cigarettes'll kill ya, then who would we have to shoot?
The example of the Roman empire is flawed, as the Romans derived obedience from the provinces through assimilating their cultures, the Greek and Asian provinces were infact all that remained after the barbarian invasions of the 5th C. It was infact the Romans allowing the barbarian tribes to settle within their territory without assimilating their culture that caused the downfall of the western empire. The Vesi (always given the incorrect name Visigoths) the Burgundians, the Franks and later the Ostrogoths, all came along and started living side by side with Romans and celts who'd lived there for centuries but the 2 cultures remained separate and in the end it was the barbarians who had the armies.
Has it ever occurred to you that it is not the dominance of a minority culture that causes caucasian youths to associate themselves with hispanic or asian culture, it may be they find the caucasian culture in America wanting or at fault. There is much to deride in the WASP culture of the US. (Not that all white people in America are white anglo-saxon protestants, hell most of them are apparently of German descent)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, not unlike the Anglo-Saxons in that respect.
By the way, Wiz, if you're going to go all white separatist on us, you could at least learn how to spell "Caucasian".
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Sorry I am not a white separatist, skinhead, or KKK wannabe. Nor am I going all "Falling Down" on you. I just think its funny that white or western european culture is considered innately evil now while any fault in other cultures are considered a part of their diversity. I currently work in an office that has a hispanic and three Portuguese. They are quite proud to make that fact known. Yet, if I were to say "White Power" or some such nonsense they would be immediately offended. It is also funny that the 3 Portuguese also band together and undermine what I or the other "white" co-workers in my office do. I happen to be a project manager and two of the three are underlings. I treat them with the same respect I would give ANY employee and yet because I actually expect them to DO the work they were hired for. They give me nothing but hostililty
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Uh...can we not look at Rome a comparison for America. They really are not alike in anything except the broadest, most superficial ways.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I don't see the point. We have 0% inemployment here in the UK right now. I'm not sure about the figures for unemployment, however. 8)
Or did you mean "zero in employment," in which case both our nations are making great inroads on that count, by transfering manufacturing to China and Malaysia, and call centres to India?
Either I slipped into a Bush-ism or the "I" is next to the "U" on my keyboard and I cant type.
I'm waiting for Congress to outscourse the House of Representatives- they've already undermined all the power once held there.
Mabye India could do those jobs cheaper....
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So I'm all for this Caucasian revival, but there's way too much internal division around there, so I've decided to specifically yoke my cares to Nagorno-Karabakh. America was founded on Nagorno-Karabakhian values, like fighting with Azerbaijan and being persecuted by Stalin!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That's Comrade Stalin to you, pallie. Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Sprechens Zie Irish?
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
If you're all looking for a new culture that is universal....
Well shrug off your bonds, leave behind your woes. Send me your huddled masses, your hungry, your cold, your intellectually twisted trek fans.
Come, join the curry order and together we shall rule the galaxy as benevolent leader and billions of fanatical minions. All cultures shall be absored into our oh so sweet sauces.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
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