Personally, I think this was the better choice, but not for the reasons that were cited by the various jurors in the linked article. No, it's obvious that as time went on, Moussaoui realized he wasn't going to be acquitted, so he instead tried to charge head-on and make himself to seem like a big, bad villain, to try to earn the death penalty and make himself a martyr. So, we rob him of his glory and let him rot for the rest of his life in a maximum-security cell. I think it's a much harsher punishment than death, myself.
Naturally, this doesn't resolve anything in the grand scheme of things, but since we'd caught him, it's worth a small moral victory to say we've convicted and will punish him in the way he'd least wanted � by denying him martyrdom.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
"The jury convicted him to life in prison, where he will spend the rest of his life. In so doing, they spared his life,"
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Whatcha wanna bet that his life in prison isn't going to last very long?
B.J.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, he will no doubt make many new friends who will think especially highly of his reason for joining them.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
They keep talking about this uber-high security prison, and all I can think of is "pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison"...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
If only: murder some child, get it in the ass forvermore, murder a few thousand, get a nice cell in solitary with (suprise!) his own Quoran to read. You know, the book he uses to justify his part in 9/11
It ant the hilton, but it's a fuck of alot more than he deserves.
Justice would be for every 9/11 family member to get a turn kicking the shit out of him for the rest of his life.
I'd settle for the guards playing a looping tape of Barry Manilow's Copacabana and the (Serenity) Fruity Oaty Bars song 24/7 in his cell. Really loud. Forever.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I'd play the Vonage song over and over again, at max volume, with electric shocks to his ears in time with the beat...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I LIKE "Copacabana", dick. AND the Fruity Oaty Bar jingle.
("Vonage song?" Shu muh?)
Omega: Supermax is not a happy place. The doors are those rotating airlock types. Each cell has 24-hour video surveillance. Food through a slot. No amenities. It's very easy, also, for guards to turn off the camera, go into the cells, & beat the hell out of the inmates.
How do I know? Talked with a guy in jail whose brother was in the Baltimore Supermax for a while; it's also where the DC snipers are being held.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I'd play Enya's "Orinoco flow", and everytime she says "Sail away" turn the firehose on him full force in the face till that smirk was washed away. Then feed him nothing but bacon served by a Jewish chef.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Isn't Supermax also where you get all of 1 hour out of your cell per day and where you get a full body cavity search every time you leave the cell and every time you go back in?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: I'd play Enya's "Orinoco flow", and everytime she says "Sail away" turn the firehose on him full force in the face till that smirk was washed away. Then feed him nothing but bacon served by a Jewish chef.
What about "Faith of the Heart"...oh wait that's inhumane.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Zacarias Moussaoui's new home behind bars is expected to be Supermax in Florence, the federal Bureau of Prisons' highest security lockup.
Officially called the United States Penitentiary - Administrative Maximum, the 484-bed facility has become the main prison for those captured in the nation's war on terror.
Nicknamed the "Alcatraz of the Rockies," the $60 million facility opened in 1994.
Moussaoui will undergo an evaluation to determine his security classification and placement in the prison system, bureau spokesman Mike Truman said. That evaluation could take several weeks.
The bureau has 12 high-security penitentiaries across the country, including one next door to Supermax in Florence.
But it has only one Supermax, reserved for inmates considered the most dangerous and disruptive.
In recent years, most of those convicted in high-profile terrorism crimes have been sent to Supermax. Among them are Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, convicted in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber, and Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, a Pakistani engineer and self-described mastermind of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
Krista Rear, spokeswoman for the Administrative Maximum facility known as ADMAX, said that there was virtually no chance that Moussaoui would ever come in contact with the other al-Qaida operatives that are among 401 inmates confined at the prison.
High-risk inmates are held in solitary confinement in their cells 23 hours a day, with an hour out for solo exercise.
"As far as physically running into someone or having direct contact, that doesn't happen here," Rear said. "Our inmates do not have physical contact with each other."
Cells are equipped with showers, and meals are delivered to inmates in their cells to restrict interaction. Each cell also is equipped for 24- hour video and audio surveillance.
Not every high-profile U.S. prisoner is housed at Supermax.
Deposed Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega is serving his sentence in a medium-security prison in Miami, Truman said.
Residing at Supermax
� Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber"
� Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, mastermind of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center
� Eric Rudolph, the abortion-clinic bomber
� Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber
� Terry Nichols, who assisted in staging the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building
� Omar Abdel-Rahman, the blind Egyptian sheik convicted in a plot to blow up New York City landmarks
� Wadih El-Hage, convicted in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
So you basically live out your life with no contact with any other human being except the guards whose job it is to make sure you have absolutely no freedoms.
While I'm not saying such treatment is not deserved, explain to me how that doesn't amount to psychological torture.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The nasty part of my mind wonders if the Framers didn't originally intend the clause about cruel and unusual punishments to mean "the punishment must fit the crime".
The conscientious part of me thinks of a meaningful pre-quote from Andromeda: "The truest measure of a society is how it treats its elderly, its pets, and its prisoners."
Sigh. Sometimes, I really hate having a conscience. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:In the end, the only real link between the acknowledged fact that Moussaoui was a terrorist who was willing to die in a suicide attack and the actual attacks of 9/11 existed in the minds of the prosecution. And, at the last minute, these links sprang to life in the fantasy world of the terrorist himself, who cooked up a strange Forrest Gump plot�starring himself and Richard Reid�that the judge herself considered to be hooey and that even the prosecutors didn't believe.
This case was about a conspiracy, about some factual connection, however attenuated, between Zacarias Moussaoui's jihadi heart and the events of 9/11. And although the government has steadfastly stood by its legal claim that it was enough for Moussaoui to have wanted to be on those planes on 9/11, enough for him to have delighted as those planes went down, the jurors recognized this afternoon that a conspiracy to aid in a terror plot requires more than just a bad heart, and more than mere willingness to participate in the next one.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: The nasty part of my mind wonders if the Framers didn't originally intend the clause about cruel and unusual punishments to mean "the punishment must fit the crime".
Well, sonsider the depravities of the era- the founding fathers were just fine with prisons forcing labor on prisoners, prisoners two to a cot while chained together and getting only one (pitiful) meal a day.
I'm not saying life in a "supermax" is not harsh, but it's a looong way from torture -particularly when comparing it to even minimum security prisons in other countries.
It's a paradise compared with what a petty thief would get in say, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
Also consider that as a such a high-profile prisoner, the likleyhood of his being mistreated in any way is nil.
The adverage drug offender should be so well protected from his fellow inmates.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
The Vonage Song is that annoying tune from "The 5,6,7,8's" if you've seen Kill Bill Vol:1 then you know who I'm talking about. They're the Japanese girl band seen near the end of the movie.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Oh. "Woo Hoo." Yeah. Not even a good song by them.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Is that the actual name of the song? Wow, how original...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"Woo Hoo" Written by George Donald McGraw Performed by The 5.6.7.8's Courtesy of Time Bomb Records, Japan; Sympathy for the Record Industry, U.S.
Also on their album Bomb The Twist.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Justice would be for every 9/11 family member to get a turn kicking the shit out of him for the rest of his life.
I was thinking about fitting punishment for people like this. Like, being made to felt the equivalent pain that they inflicted on the innocent civilians... which would probably require something close to death, but also healing them to do it all over again. I then was reminded of a particularly sadistic and horrible imprisonment on Stargate-SG1.
That Goa'uld that was put into a sarcophagus with some monster that would kill the goa'uld and then the goa'uld would be revived for it to happen all over again... forever. Even if the goa'uld managed to defeat the 'monster' - that monster would be revived and would kill the goa'uld again anyway.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: [qb]
It's a paradise compared with what a petty thief would get in say, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
Schapelle Corby residing in the filthy Kerobokan in Bali - convicted for 20 years for having 4.1 kg of marijuana in an unlocked pocket in the outside of her surf-bag. Was never proven to be hers. She was never caught with it on her person. Baggage handlers have been recently shown in Sydney to be dodgey and up to no good. Many inconsistancies. Bali probably produces more Marijuana THERE than warrants any importation. Nothing ads up. Anywhere else (Western/Civilised countries) she'd probably be given max 5 years -oh or a fair trial.
At her plea time, none of the judges spoke English and some sat there reading a book while she was pleading for her life (oh at the time she was possibly going to be sentenced to death).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yet, many are seriously concerned that a lack of communication with like-minded people on this mass-murderer's part might be considered "torture".
Fuck, even bozos like Eddington on (idyllic) Star Trek get solitary!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't say I was concerned. Trust me... if it came down to being locked in solitary and being forced to live in gen pop, I'd go for solitary. And yes, I would choose an American prison, even Supermax, over a Middle Eastern any day.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
At least you get "play time" in Abu Graib SP?
Who DOESN'T like a naked human pyramid!?!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Ahh, Slate. I'm becoming a big fan. Their title for that piece the other day on singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" in Spanish - "Jos�, can you see?" - pleased me mightily.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
How many people here have heard of Lori Berenson?
--Jonah
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Yet, many are seriously concerned that a lack of communication with like-minded people on this mass-murderer's part might be considered "torture".
So are you just going with the "mass-murderer" thing despite Simon's post, or have you got evidence that proves that it's wrong?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well, accomplice to mass murder is more accurate- it's what he's, in essence, been convicted of.
Legally, it's a sigh of relief for prosecutors that he was not sentenced to death- it avoids endless appeals over the lackluster case they put forth and the defendant's own contradictory statements/testimony.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Time has more on what Mr. Moussaoui remaining days will be like.
In the maximum security facility known as the "Alcatraz of the Rockies," he would lead a solitary existence cut off from the country he hates so much By BRIAN BENNETT/WASHINGTON
Posted Thursday, May. 04, 2006
Zacarias Moussaoui will live out the rest of his days surrounded by poured concrete, with a thin horizontal window providing his only view of the country he conspired to attack. He'll be in this cell at all times except for the 90 minutes he'll get five days a week to go outside into a caged courtyard to exercise on his own, with no contact with other inmates. This is life at ADX Florence, the maximum security prison in the high desert of southeastern Colorado where the convicted 9/11 conspirator will almost certainly begin his life sentence. (The Bureau of Prisons won't officially confirm his destination until he arrives.)
Moussaoui, 37, will likely be held in the most restrictive part of the prison, sleeping on a thin, green mattress that rests on an unforgiving concrete bed. He can sit on a concrete stool at a concrete desk to write letters and read books. Above him at all times will be a video camera monitoring his every move. If he is well behaved, he could eventually be allowed to have a black-and-white television in his cell that plays, on closed circuit, religious programs, psychological help tapes or educational shows. His toilet can flush only a certain number of times an hour so he can't flood his room to get the guard's attention. For the same reason, his shower will run only for a short period of time.
Although Moussaoui won't get to mingle, he will be near other notorious inmates at ADX Florence including Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski, Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols, attempted shoe bomber Richard Reid, 1993 World Trade Center mastermind Ramzi Yousef, 2000 Atlanta Olympics bomber Eric Rudolph and FBI agent turned Soviet spy Robert Hanssen.
----
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
While certainly not ethical, I'd change the last chapter in his Quoran to be a comic featuring a Mohammed/Spider-Man team up, wherein the day is saved from infidels by Hostess Fruit Pies. Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Theodore Kaczynski, Terry Nichols, Richard Reid, Ramzi Yousef, Eric Rudoloph, and Robert Hanssen.
It's the terrorist Dream Team!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yes, it's probably this lot that Wesley Snipes was unthawing at the end of Demolition Man.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
(his reference to the now-dead Jeffrey Dahmer can be attributed to a slight case of Riker-Yamato Syndrome)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Yes, it's probably this lot that Wesley Snipes was unthawing at the end of Demolition Man.
Now that would have been a funny end to a laughably lame movie.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
You just didn't like the fact that it was Taco Bell that survived the franchise wars and not Pizza Hut.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Odd, since every time I've seen of those two recently has been a combo store of both of them.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Interesting. The only Taco Bell that I'm aware of in the vicinity (like, within a 3 hour drive) is a combo store with KFC...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I dont eat any "fast food"- it's pretty vile (though I recall Pizza Hut being okay, if really greasy).
Taco Bell in Florida uses "grade C" meats- lips, feet and ass in a burrito! mmmm!mmm!good!
Besides, there are really good pizza and mexican joints here that are open 24/7.
Now we just need a 24 hour chinese resturant! Not even in San Fran did I find that though...
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Pizza Slut sucks. Fast food pizza is just wrong. We had a Taco Bell here that was part of a corner store, I could barely go into the store without wanting to puke.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
The Pizza Hut here is actually pretty good. There are a couple other pizza places that are WAY more greasy than PH, I'm talking rainstorms of grease every time you pick up a slice. We don't have Taco Bell here, we have Taco Time. Same thing. We have a couple good pizza places such as Boston Pizza, Panago pizza (Thier teriyaki chicken pizza is really good) and Venice House pizza. Thier pizza sause is really spicy.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Have we still not put the rule saying "anyone who changes the spelling of company or other noun for 'humorous' effect because they are radical and hip and want to stick it to the man will have their username replaced with 'titty-face'. Examples include Micro$oft, Apple Crap, and George W. Bush" in the UA yet?
(Besides, what does Pizza Slut even mean? You get a bread and cheese based meal which will sleep with you on the first date?)
Pizza Hut is okay as a restaurant, although the only time I tend to go in there is if they're doing their lunchtime buffet, which is when they put out the worst pizzas, so it's not really a far example.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Taco Bell in Florida uses "grade C" meats- lips, feet and ass in a burrito! mmmm!mmm!good!
AND they don't actually COOK food on the premises. They take bags of predone crap and stick it in a "Thermalizer" then dump it in a warmer.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
And yet, delicious.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
He will spend 23 hours a day in solitary...and be allowed out for 1 hour 'exercise' in the cell block (no windows) that is buried underground.
Plenty of time to think.....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)