That's fucking disturbing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Crown prosecutor Colleen Hepburn had asked for a sentence of eight to 10 years, arguing that the father had penetrated his daughter. Croll said she only had one statement from the little girl to that effect, which left her with reasonable doubt about penetration.
Well, that explains why they did not charge him with rape...
Sadly, this scumbag will recieve special treatment while in jail- because of his wheelchair, he'll have his own private cell.
Hopefully the guards will look the other way while he's in the yard or something and some sort of justice will be meted out by his fellow convicts. The courts sure denied that little girl justice with their handslap sentence.
quote:During his trial, his lawyer, Allan Lobel, had argued that the disease might have been passed on indirectly, through towels, dirty laundry or bed sheets, an argument the judge rejected. Crown prosecutor Colleen Hepburn had asked for a sentence of eight to 10 years, arguing that the father had penetrated his daughter. Lobel asked for a conditional sentence of two years less a day, to be served in the community.
Apparantly Mr Lobel has no children to think about.
What. an. asshole.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"Justice" is a false concept. And all are entitled to a reasonable & vigorous defense.
Vigilanteism is naught but mob-directed anarchy. it serves little purpose, placates none, & acheives even less.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I agree with Shik, except perhaps that justice is a false concept. Justice has merit. It's just not as simple as people think. What is justice? That we injure others in the same way they have done injury? But how can we do that in this case? And does that mean justice is equivalent to vengeance?
Or is "justice" just doing what's right? In which case, as a Christian, all I can think it would be is to help everyone as best you can, regardless of what they've done. Sometimes the only way to do that is to lock people up. And you frequently have to help the general populace at the expense of the individual criminal. But optimally, punishment should be about rehabilitation and protection, never about a pound of flesh.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Remember too that our justice system is imperfect because it was developed by imperfect people, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Is what happened to this little sad? Definitely.
Did this guy get what he deserved? No.
Is there anything we can do about it? Just reflect.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: I agree with Shik, except perhaps that justice is a false concept. Justice has merit. It's just not as simple as people think. What is justice? That we injure others in the same way they have done injury? But how can we do that in this case? And does that mean justice is equivalent to vengeance?
Or is "justice" just doing what's right? In which case, as a Christian, all I can think it would be is to help everyone as best you can, regardless of what they've done. Sometimes the only way to do that is to lock people up. And you frequently have to help the general populace at the expense of the individual criminal. But optimally, punishment should be about rehabilitation and protection, never about a pound of flesh.
The best help for this creep may well be a bullet in the head- he's got zero remorse and wont even admit to the vile act.
Plato speaks a lot (in Republic) about the often vague concept of "justice" and how it's diffrent from time to time and in various places- in many ways justice is both punishment and doing what is best for the society....the notion of rehabilitation is not seriously practiced anywhere I know of- particularaly regarding sex offenders. He will doubtlessly recieve hours of mandatory counciling, but it's just going through the motions- serious effort is not devoted to fixing this kind of sickness and most of the state's efforts will go towards tracking him once he's released. Meanwhile his victims live under the constant knowledge that each moment bring him closer to freedom (in this case the only recourse is probably for the mom and daughter to move and start all over somewhere).
Can this rapist of children ever serve society in a meaningful way again, or is he now society's burden to constantly watch and guard against for the rest of his life?
Depending on the nature of the crime, chances of rehabilitation and threat to society, I seriously think some crimes warrant execution (though not in this case per se).
If more conclusive evidence were available (a "rape kit" immeadeately after the fact for example), I'd have no problem condemning this man to life in prison. People get more (and mandatory!) time for drug possession that this man got for raping his own daughter.
Probably the only way to really protect children against this happening again is to remove this man from society permanantly: everyone talks so much shit about how important children are, yet this is usually the extent of how they're protected.
I'm sure I'm coming across as a bit...harsh, but consider that my own state is notorious for failing to protect children.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Your state is notorious for generally failing to not be completely insane.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
And now to monkey wrench.
Jason. A good section of the population would say the same about me. Consider.
Also, I would argue that "solutions" such as thattend to be like spraying Lysol in a bathroom that stinks of shit: all it does is cover it up, & poorly at that. If this nation stopped "protecting" children & started teaching them as children are to be taught, then there would be less of a problem here. Not that that would be an instant fix; it wouldn't. But it's an amelioration.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm not clear on what you mean by "teaching them as children are to be taught"- you cant "teach" a five year old child that her dad might rape her, or even what constitutes "bad" touching- every dad giving his kid a bath would be accused of some heineous act. A child that young cant be expected to defend themselves from parental predators.
Some potential horrors it's completely up to a parent to safeguard against (and, of course, society and the ever-lacking civic responsibility when something bad is witnessed in public).
I actually did consider your particular situation while posting: you're a looong way from a child rapist. Personally, I dont think the "sex offender" label does enough to address the various crimes it's supposed to represent.
In your case, you screwed up, did your time and should be allowed to have a clean break (though some mandatory counciling would have to be embedded in any sentencing for sex with a minor- sexually active teenager or not).
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Well, probation mandated it, but I'd need to be stripped & rewired like KGB does (did, whtvtr) for it to take.
By "teach," I mean that we hide sexuality from kids--"They're too young!!" Not so. The whole "get your hand out of your pants!" thing & all that. iot's noraml & typical. That can be used to explain the differentiation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I generally agree, but I find that no matter how you look at it, FIVE YEARS OLD is too young. Seriously.
Posted by HopefulNebula (Member # 1933) on :
Not to mention the whole "lying like a fucking dog" thing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I feel sorry for his wife as well- imagine all the terrible shame and guilt at not knowing/preventing this that she must be going through.
One bastards's horrible crime screws up two innocent lives...probably more, as we dont know where he got the STD from. Kid needs to get tested for pretty much everything now- maybe even go on precautionary antibiotics, just in case.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Oh, yes, let's breed super-gonorrhea.
I fully agree that there's no much statistical chance of this guy ever being rehabilitated. Which as far as I'm concerned means there shouldn't be much chance of him being let back into society. Yeah, rehabilitation doesn't actually happen in any justice system. I'm just saying it would be optimal.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Sometimes "Justice" isn't so much about an eye for an eye, or even rehabilitation. For justice to truly work, the repercussions for violations need to be severe enough, and served swiftly enough, that it forms a deterrent to that behavior from other individuals. If the cost of being caught far outweighs the gain from the crime, there is little incentive in the activity. Granted, there will ALWAYS be those who will do as they please regardless of the price. These should receive the most vigorous sentencing and serve as a warning to those who MIGHT consider that course of action.
As far as rehabilitation goes, there will generally be relapses, often times multiple occasions. Change has to occur on the most basic level of who an individual is and that only comes with conviction of and repentence for the action.
Unfortunately, our society has deemed there to be no morals anymore and without that basic building block, laws become subject to whims, agendas, and personal attitudes. I would not be surprised if the judge in this case might have a little secret of their own. A person will likely pass a lighter judgement on an individual when they are also guilty of similar behaviour.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Oh, yes, let's breed super-gonorrhea.
I meant a HIV coctail might be in order -though I'd assume some sort of mandatory STD test was/will be given to the father to see what other diseases he's got first.
quote: I fully agree that there's no much statistical chance of this guy ever being rehabilitated. Which as far as I'm concerned means there shouldn't be much chance of him being let back into society. Yeah, rehabilitation doesn't actually happen in any justice system. I'm just saying it would be optimal. [/QB]
First we'd have to really find out why some people are sick child-rapist fucks- dirty work that few are doing.
I'm all for rehab for drug offenders and non-violent crimminals though: once asentene is served it should be done- not used to humiliate and limit a person socially/economicly.
That alone would drasticly reduce the recurrance rate of many crimes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Tough to imagine, but this bitch is probably worse than mr. child-rapist.
She'll (hopefully) get a real jail sentence though.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
There isn't a punishment harsh enough for someone like that. Sickening.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
If she were a man, I'd say off with their cock. But I don't know what would be appropriate in this case...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well duh!? The council of elders must obviously sentence the daughter to a thorough stoning for being a harlot. The mother, now relieved of shame, may then marry her brother-in-law to make newer, better daughters. Dismissed. *bang* Next!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)