Beverly has scanned Jack to figure out the cause of his hallucinations, and found that he has Irumodic Syndrome. I'm sure that's true, but I'm guessing that's not actually what's wrong with him.
Worf, Raffi, and Riker get aboard Daystrom Station and start hunting for the manifest. The fanservice starts right away with a Genesis Device, the remains of Captain James T. Kirk (Couldn't just let him rest in peace on Veridian III, huh?), and... a genetically modified Attack Tribble (which is just as awesomely stupid as it sounds).
However, the Titan is forced to leave them behind when Starfleet ships find them. They warp to the Fleet Museum where they are met by Geordi and his other daughter Alandra. Things are a bit icy between Geordi and both Picard and Sidney. We find out that Starfleet can track the Titan even without its transponder because (against Geordi's recommendations) all Starfleet ships are now linked.
Back on board Daystrom Station, our heroes start running into the security system. First, a holographic crow. Then, Moriarty. Then, "Pop Goes the Weasel" starts playing. Riker manages to figure out that all three are connected to Data.
We get some more massive fanservice at the Fleet Museum, where we get to see the Defiant, the Enterprise-A, the Voyager, and lastly, the titular HMS Bounty. The sight of the Bird-of-Prey gives Jack an idea...
Back at Daystrom, we find... well... a new android of the same sort as Picard; practically biological. However, it contains the sum of B4, Lore, Data, Lal (yes, she's specifically mentioned), and possibly Alton Soong (not totally clear on that). Alton was working on it but didn't quite finish before he died. It is this android that is the station's AI and also contains the manifest.
Jack and Sidney swipe the cloaking device from the Bounty and attempt to install it in the Titan. However, this alerts Starfleet. The three La Forges get the cloaking device operational and then head back to Daystrom.
The Titan beams Raffi, Worf, and Data (I'll call him that for now for simplicity's sake) off the station, but Riker is hit with a transporter inhibitor and gets captured.
Geordi gets Data online, although the multiple personalities fight for control. They learn what else the Changelings stole from Daystrom Station: the mortal remains of Jean-Luc Picard.
Riker is taken aboard the Shrike, where he vows to Vadic not to talk. Vadic responds by showing Riker her other prisoner... Troi.
All the fanservice aside, I'd say this was a decent episode. The overall plot moved forward decently by resolving the mystery of what else was taken from Daystrom Station, while at the same time setting up the question of what the Changelings want with Picard's original body.
EDIT: Forgot a very cute scene with Shaw. It seems his disdain of the TNG crew does NOT extend to Geordi, as he starts massively geeking out in his presence. Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Yeah, no way Irumodic Syndrome is the reason for his superhero moves.
The fleet museum was cool. A very emotional moment to see these ships once again.
quote:We get some more massive fanservice at the Fleet Museum, where we get to see the Defiant, the Enterprise-A, the Voyager, and lastly, the titular HMS Bounty.
Also presumably Enterprise NX-01 in its refit configuration, USS Excelsior, USS Stargazer, a Nebula, Akira, Saber, K't'inga, Romulan Warbird, and the USS New Jersey, the original Constitution Picard told Scotty about in "Relics" (NCC-1975 is way too high but it seems to be Matalas's birth year. )
I wonder what the registry on the Defiant is. There are some weird choices (Nebula, Saber, Akira). I'd have prefered Enterprise-B, Enterprise-E and an Ambassador instead.
Was Riker wearing yet another uniform variant? It was too fucking dark but his jacket seemed to be different than Raffi's. And Geordi's was different from Ro's last week, no?
The reveal of what was stolen was kind of underwhelming. I hope it pays off later.
There were a lot of ridiculous things in that one. Kirk's body, killer tribbles, assembling the whole fucking fleet in one place, Shaw and Seven not knowing that Titan is connected to other Starfleet vessels...
Enough with the Section 31 stuff. It might have been exposed after the changeling virus stuff but nowadays everbody knows that they store their stuff at Daystrom Station? Come on.
I'm kind of tired of all they ways they find to bring back Spiner for all three seasons of PIC.
I also call bullshit on the La Forge's family drama. Obviously the writers forgot who piloted the Enterprise-D in Season 1.
Geez, I can't stand Vadic's theatrics. Most annoying Trek villain in my book.
quote:It seems his disdain of the TNG crew does NOT extend to Geordi
Well, he called him Mr. La Forge instead of Commodore...
[ March 23, 2023, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Obviously the writers forgot who piloted the Enterprise-D in Season 1.
Nah, they didn't even bother to watch it. Matalas said in an interview that the Conspiracy bugs killed everybody they took over which is why he didn't have them as the big bads, and it's pretty clear from the episode itself that actually the bugs don't do that.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
So NCC-1975 New Jersey was quite obviously the year and birthplace of Matalas. Moreover, though, this suggests the claim that he didn't name the planet M'talas after himself is likely untrue.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Per my earlier comment in the other thread, It's a real burden being right all the time.
I call bullshit on Irumodic Syndrome. Beverly knows JL has that genetic tendency & she never gene-scanned their kid? Did advanced-age baby brain turn her into a shitty doctor not to have done that?
That being said, dollars to fucking donuts it's about Borg nanoprobes. They want the ones in his dead mest, & he some how shot them into Beverly & now they're in Jack too.
Someone over on TrekBBS gave me mild shit for calling this the "Matalas Memberberry Verse". I should so see if he's eating his words now. Probably not, since that's how that place is.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
I just saw the USS Voyager in HD!
And now I want more. I want more!
Bring on Voyager on bluray! And DS9, too, please!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
So I was confused.
They showed a hologram of the Substitution Class Discoprise in STP Season 1, which is 442 meters.
Now they show a fleet museum with not one but two Constitutions, including a normal-ish TOS style (albeit with weird windows) and the 1701-A.
This led me to wonder if the scale of the 1701-A was embiggened, and whether that new scale would make the Titan Connie saucer the right size, but the 1701-A upscale was just a hypothesis, I thought.
However, the New Jersey secondary hull has a crapload of windows, and I finally realized there were too many rows.
In other words, they have upscaled the TOS Connie, so they've certainly had to do the same with 1701-A (unless they're going to argue they built the A subscale).
Ah but you're going by the assumption that every season of PIC is set in the same verse. Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
So, the list according to Memory Alpha (*at time of posting, anyway):
Starfleet vessels
Akira-class USS Defiant (NX-74205) Enterprise NX-01 USS Enterprise-A (NCC-1701-A) USS Enterprise-D (NCC-1701-D) (saucer section only) USS Excelsior (NCC-2000) USS Leondegrance (NCC-2176) Miranda-class USS New Jersey (NCC-1975) Nova-class USS Pioneer (NCC-1500) Nebula-class Saber-class USS Stargazer (NCC-2893) USS Voyager (NCC-74656)
Non-Starfleet vessels
HMS Bounty K't'inga-class Romulan Bird-of-Prey
Obviously a fair few hero ships there. And why not? The others, well, we just have to assume they’re particularly notable examples of their classes (or the first of them?). As for why they’re all of regularly-seen “semi-hero” ship classes, just one of those things I guess. Obviously there are no surviving notable, say, Freedom-classes! Or Steamrunners, which if course infuriates me personally… 🤬
Some are odd though. The Leondegrance we know a little about, it evidently had a long and illustrious career so merits inclusion. Likewise new ships like the Pioneer. The original Stargazer though, that’s a bit odd. OK, long and illustrious career of sorts, previous command of Picard, maybe it’s just the best-preserved and/or oldest surviving example of the class.
If it’s like any other museum, of course there’ll be an archive of non-display items, probably far more extensive than what is on display! That would be the true place to visit and geek out over, far better than the crowd-pleasers on prime display…
A Thalaron radiation weapon at Daystrom… that makes sense. As does a Genesis device (nor particularly surprised about it TBH). Not sure what the rationale behind Kirk’s body being there is, and it rather sucks that he’s not buried somewhere proper with full honours. Maybe it would cause too many questions - to paraphrase Soran, history considers him lost in space on the Ent-B, why get more people thinking about the benefits of going into the Nexus? It’s just a bit weird though. Same thing with keeping Picard’s body there I guess, can’t publicly bury him when he’s still visibly “alive!” So it’s not just s31’s dirty secrets, it’s ALL the Federation’s dirty secrets.
What’s the timeline - what happened first? Did Vadic break into Daystrom first, or start hunting Jack first? Do we know what happened/started when?
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: So, the list according to Memory Alpha (*at time of posting, anyway):
Starfleet vessels
Akira-class USS Defiant (NX-74205) Enterprise NX-01 USS Enterprise-A (NCC-1701-A) USS Enterprise-D (NCC-1701-D) (saucer section only) USS Excelsior (NCC-2000) USS Leondegrance (NCC-2176) Miranda-class USS New Jersey (NCC-1975) Nova-class USS Pioneer (NCC-1500) Nebula-class Saber-class USS Stargazer (NCC-2893) USS Voyager (NCC-74656)
This episode is indeed giving us a registry for the Akira-Class starship, as seen in the fleet museum: NCC-23542. Unfortunately this number does not fall into the established pattern.
Furthermore, Voyagers registry is given with NCC-77543 (unless it is not the Voyager, but another Intrepid? But on the other hand the Voyager was identified by Commander Hansen.) and the registry of a Constistution Class is given with NCC-75442.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by o2: This episode is indeed giving us a registry for the Akira-Class starship, as seen in the fleet museum: NCC-23542. Unfortunately this number does not fall into the established pattern.
Ew. That would, if memory serves, push the elliptical saucers back decades. Not that we're supposed to assume that basic spaceframe and vehicle shapes are remotely consistent over time anymore, of course . . . and that wouldn't even begin to cover other details.
quote:Furthermore, Voyagers registry is given with NCC-77543 (unless it is not the Voyager, but another Intrepid? But on the other hand the Voyager was identified by Commander Hansen.)
Oof.
quote:and the registry of a Constistution Class is given with NCC-75442.
That would be a build date in the early 2370s. Honestly, I actually wouldn't mind the idea of some Connie parts getting slapped together for the Dominion War. If complete, it would beat some of the other kitbashes.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
quote:and the registry of a Constistution Class is given with NCC-75442.
That would be a build date in the early 2370s. Honestly, I actually wouldn't mind the idea of some Connie parts getting slapped together for the Dominion War. If complete, it would beat some of the other kitbashes.
Besides the fact that we can read the registry of both Constitution Class starships (NCC-1701-A and NCC-1975) in this episode: Please remember that we found parts of a (refit) Constitution Class (saucer and hull) at Wolf 359, some years before the Dominion War.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
David Blass already twittered to ignore these registries. I guess some battle damage to Titan‘s computer systems?
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: David Blass already twittered to ignore these registries. I guess some battle damage to Titan‘s computer systems?
Yeah, would be the best to do so. But imagine Mike Okuda would have been ask to take a look at it before the scene was shot!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: David Blass already twittered to ignore these registries.
Link? I see him saying that about a little diagram thing he posted but not about these ships.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
As for bringing Data back… look, this was always going to happen, WOULD have happened, if there’d been a fifth TNG movie. And the likely method for that - his memory engrams either overwriting or merging with B-4’s, well, you can debate the merits of that, and the ethics too (especially if you fall on one side of the Tuvix debate). This, though, feels better somehow?
For one thing it nicely sidesteps the fact that B-4 was a really rubbish plot point to begin with, and having a full Data running on older less-sophisticated hardware platform stretches credibility as well.
And it really wouldn’t be a problem if this wasn’t the third season and in every previous one they hadn’t, as Spike says, found a way to incorporate Spiner in each.
Two different Soongs was ridiculous; if I had to pick between Adam and Alton to just keep one… I’m not sure I could. Alton didn’t need to be there, he could have been anyone, human or android; on the other hand, the whole Adam thing was stupid and contrived.
Data’s presence in s1, as a dream figure, was fine and if they’d left it at that there’d be no problem. The coda where Picard gets to say goodbye to his Data was sweet though, again a bit contrived in how it was able to happen but still it gave the necessary closure.
So I’m not sure how I feel NOW. Is that cheapened by them bringing Data (as part of DataLoreB4)? Or did it serve its dramatic purpose, to get Picard over the guilt that a friend sacrificed himself for him, leaving him to fully embrace whatever this new Data is?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
quote:Originally posted by Spike: David Blass already twittered to ignore these registries.
Link? I see him saying that about a little diagram thing he posted but not about these ships.
Twitter is also working its way into a frenzy that what is in Hangar Bay 12 might be a replacement stardrive section for the D. Which would probably be a fanservice too far, really. Though it certainly would pack more of an emotional heft than what I think it’s likely to be - based on some stuff Matalas put on Instagram - namely the E, whose fate seems to be rather nebulous. But as I say, you don’t see Picard getting misty-eyed over the E like he does the D. And there are some suggesting the D’s bridge set has been recreated…
Lee’s out-there probably-wrong wacky prediction of the day: the Enterprise-F is destroyed in the Frontier Day shenanigans, and is replaced by a semi-new Galaxy-class USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-G. Hey, if David Tennant can be the Tenth AND Fourteenth Doctors…
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
See, shit like this is why I say this show is still so bad. Seeing people praise it is like having someone say frozen supermarket pizza is superior to fresh from a shop.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Thanks Spike!
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
You know, for priding themselves so much on being massive ship geeks they make an awful lot of avoidable mistakes.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Because they're fucking masturbatory idiots.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Yeah, I'd noticed that the Nuseum shots in the episode are awful, from a scaling perspective. The mini-Nebula, the micro-NX, and so on were rough.
But I kept referencing the rings and someone shared the top-down FX reference image above saying they're different sizes. Well, not in the episode. And that image has other problems. Check the Pocket Excelsior, the MegaBoP versus the mini-battlecruiser, and so on.
Some of those scale references are also hideous. The 170m Defiant (heh), the 160m BoP, the 350 meter battlecruiser . . . and even when the data is right we're still stuck with the out-of-scale image or final episode render.
In any case, the Museum always should've been something mentioned but not seen. I hate it, too, but when you only have so many assets to work with, any attempt to show it will lock you in to the limits of what you've got. How many untold stories have just been cast aside because they filled in extra spots with so many Akiras and a Saber? The collection has century-wide gaps. Even if we assume other stuff is inside, it seems like almost all the interesting stuff happened while we were watching. That's kinda sad.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
They should've fixed the stock footage registry of the Defiant. But considering that they changed the Saratoga's registry I guess it's possible that they did the same with the Defiant as NX-74205 was the more prominent vessel.
The Lexington's registry is just wrong. We have Memory Alpha to thank for that which connected the DS9 Nebula-class Lexington with a registry appearing on a barely legible screen in TNG The Measure of a Man.
Most of the sizes are taken from the faulty DS9 Technical Manual. Even the clearly incorrect ones for the Saber which were mistakenly copied from the Norway class entry.
They changed the Pioneer for the Akira-class Wersching. Would've made more sense to keep the Pioneer and make the Sentinel the Wersching.
I would have dropped the Saratoga, Lexington, Saber and Akiras in favour of Bozeman, Endeavour (Wolf 359 survivor), Excalibur (or another Ambassador-class) and maybe some new design from the late 23rd/early 24th century.
[ March 30, 2023, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
There should've been an Oberth.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
A replica of the Saratoga? Fuck’s sake. It’s a nice touch to name a ship after Annie Wersching even belatedly (FX we’re probably long done when she passed away, and I’m sure it didn’t require any more than a change to a list on Dave Blass’s computer).
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I've embarked on the process of reconstructing the scene, because I'm insane. But, I just wanted to check my eyeballs.
So far, the microNebula is confirmed, but I was winging placements and most are like 75 meters too far from the edge, per overlay with another view. So, I can't say much more until after some tweaking, though I'm pretty sure Voyager was embiggened. Thread of work in progress here:
So far I have everything around back side in this view from the NX to the Constitution. I have tweaked the placements as mentioned above.
The Nuseum NX is comically small . . . maybe 150 meters if thinking big thoughts. The Miranda is fine. The Nebula is tiny. Voyager looks to be around 40 meters larger than standard. The Excelsior seems to be at 511 meters rather than 467. The Akira is tiny. The Constitution looks huge here but in another view looks okay . . . that other view is a 3/4 rear shot so may be hiding the size, though. I'll work on figuring that out for sure, but given the extra window rows on the "New Jersey" plus the 442-vs-289 upscaling of the Discoprise I presume they did indeed embiggen it here.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Nobody tell him about the Defiant, or he’ll be REALLY cross Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Ironically, the top-down view has the Defiant size right, compared to the Constitution.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh! Well, this is nice to know that Picard's Stargazer didn't get retrofitted into that new Stargazer we saw last season.
Still think the same thing happening to the Titan is bullshit though.
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