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SNW 3x03 "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" ($$$)
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> <br /><small>Member # 22</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,29,14,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 29, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:52 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Sorry I never got around to last week's episode, folks. You do know you start one yourselves, right? Right?<br /><br />Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode. I'm always up for some good temporal hijinks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /><br />We start with following La'an around on what is presumed to be a typical day. Is that another new uniform variant on Chief Jay?<br /><br />After a flash in one of the hallways, La'an runs into someone who has been shot with bullets. Before dying, he explains that there's been an attack in the past and that La'an has to stop it. He hands her some sort of temporal doodad (complete with TCARS display!) before another flash happens and he disappears.<br /><br />La'an heads to the bridge only to find things have changed. Kirk is now captain of the <i>Enterprise</i>, which is now an Earth ship rather than a Federation ship. Spock is now captain of a Vulcan ship under attack by the Romulans, asking for aid which Kirk declines due to Earth's own problems with the Romulans. La'an no longer exists, at least not on the <i>Enterprise</i>. <br /><br />La'an and Kirk squabble over the doodad, which they accidentally activate, sending them back to 21st Century Toronto. Comically, Kirk initially believes them to be in New York City despite being surrounded by rather obvious evidence to the contrary.<br /><br />The duo first go about getting a change of clothes, and they wind up picking out nearly identical outfits. Then Kirk does some chess hustling to make enough money for food and someplace to stay. We find out that Earth is not in good shape these day's in Kirk's timeline.<br /><br />The next day, the two investigate a bridge blown up in a terrorist attack. They meet a photographer, Sera, who shows them her photos, one of which is of a Romulan Bird-of-Prey. They tail <br />the wreckage in a stolen car until pulled over by the police, but are saved by Sera who claims they are famous civil rights activists. Sera seems to be a nutcase claiming to be an alien abductee.<br /><br />Somehow, La'an and Kirk determine the next target will be a secret cold fusion reactor under Toronto, but have no way to know exactly where it is. They track down the 21st Century version of Pelia for engineering help, only to find that she hasn't learned any engineering yet. However, she does give them an old watch that should glow in the presence of fusion by-products.<br /><br />They head back to Toronto and track down the fusion reactor... which is located at the Noonien-Singh Institute. Sera shows up and holds the two at gunpoint, demanding access to the facility. Turns out Sera is a Romulan temporal operative. La'an refuses, and Sera shoots and kills Kirk. La'an uses her hand on the scanner and is granted access.<br /><br />La'an tries to talk Sera out of blowing up the reactor, but Sera says the reactor was Plan B. She's going to carry out Plan A... assassinate KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!<br /><br />And here's where we get to possibly one of the most hilarious meta jokes of all time. Sera time travelled back to 1992 (the year given in TOS for the Eugenics Wars), expecting to find the Eugenics Wars in full swing. Except... nothing. No Eugenics Wars. No Khan. All the temporal meddlings throughout the timeline have shifted the Eugenics Wars into the 21st Century now. So Sera's been stuck on Earth for decades waiting around for Khan to show up. No wonder she's so pissed off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <br /><br />La'an and Sera fight outside of the room Khan is inside, and Sera manages to force La'an to open the door. La'an eventually gets the upper hand and shoots Sera (complete with green blood), and Sera self-disintegrates (maybe?) to avoid capture.<br /><br />La'an goes into the room to find Khan as a young boy. La'an reassures him that he's safe before she uses the temporal doodad to go back home.<br /><br />Everything is back to normal, and La'an goes to her quarters. Waiting for her there is Agent Ymalay of the DTI. Whereas Dulmer and Lucsly were comically serious, Ymalay seems like she's pissed off. La'an is clearly having a rough go processing everything that happened, especially Kirk's death. Ymalay's response is "You can't tell anyone what happened. And give me my doodad back."<br /><br />The episode ends with La'an contacting this timeline's Kirk under the pretense of updating Sam's security file to see him one more time.<br /><br />Like I said, pretty good episode. I think my only problem is why Sera, a Romulan agent, would keep a picture of a BoP on her camera. But we get to see a lot of La'an's softer side as she and Kirk start falling for each other. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,29,22,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 29, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:14 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> So La'an guessed Sera was Romulan, based on knowing there was a Romulan ship in the mix. But she doesn't know what Romulans really look like, because the one she meets is disguised as a human! It's quite a clever way of subverting yet preserving the "Humans don't know Romulans are basically Vulcans" trope.<br /><br />I'm unclear at what point Sera figured out who they were. Was she just acting crazy throughout (only not really acting, given 30 years stuck in a timeline altered from what she expected has obviously taken its toll)? I think we have to assume so, and her meeting them in the facility was a happy (for her) accident; she had no way of knowing La'an was a Noonien Singh, even if she only belatedly recognised Kirk.<br /><br />Given Dulmer's (or is it Dulmur?) and Lucsly's names originated as anagrams of Mulder & Scully, bit disappointed that the new TBI agent didn't have an anagrammatic name. Something based on Skinner, Doggett, Reyes, Krycek, Spender, Covarrubias, Byers/Langley/Frohike... and we get Ymalay? put some effort in!<br /><br />And, it would have potentially been a nice touch if Adam Soong had turned up at the end to check on Khan, bringing it full circle. Though who wants to really be reminded of PIC s2? I doubt Brent Spiner does, now he's "back" as Data - or has given his 'proper' character a proper sign-off, anyway. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,0,48,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:48 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think my only problem is why Sera, a Romulan agent, would keep a picture of a BoP on her camera.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because she's quite adept at noticing even slight human reactions to things, so while people from the 21st century are unlikely to react, time travelers likely will. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,2,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:30 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Khan wasn't his fucking name, it was a self-granted title. His name was Noonien Singh, first & last, not a hyphenated family name.<br /><br />Well, at least they're finally fucking admitting this is all AU. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Zipacna</b> <br /><small>Member # 1881</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,6,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:14 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I can forgive them pushing the Eugenics Wars up a few decades, as it feels odd for them to have been in the 1990s in the first place. I mean why would Khan (a genetically enhanced super human with presumably Indian ancestry, even though he was played by a Mexican actor) use the Gregorian Calendar? Much prefer the idea that was floated on SCN back in the day that he was giving a date in the Indian Civil Calendar, for which 1996 equates to somewhere in "our" 2070s...and presumably Kirk & crew were too stupid to realise, which I can believe if they've also completely forgotten that they've met a descendant of Noon. That said, if they were going to do an origin story for Khan (which lets be honest, given the regular references to Augments across all versions of NuTrek is probably what they're building too) I'd rather they just adapted Greg Cox's novels and avoided the entire argument about canon and timelines.<br /><br />Got to ask, but how does Spock exist in the alternate timeline? Or have they forgotten he's half human, and with an entirely different set of life experiences it is fairly unlikely that Sarek would marry a human named Amanda Grayson. Not to mention that it's unlikely humans would have developed the same way technologically without the combined influences of hundreds of Federation members on scientific advancement and starship design...so NCC-1701 probably shouldn't look exactly the same either. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Spike</b> <br /><small>Member # 322</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,9,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:04 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I mean why would Khan use the Gregorian Calendar?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He never did. All 1990s references were made by Spock and Kirk.<br /><br />Overall a very touching episode. But as Janeway once stated it's better not to overthink the time travel aspects. Like how an Earth at war with the Romulans since the 21st century and more or less a wasteland managed to build a Constitution class. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> <br /><small>Member # 22</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,13,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:19 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shik:<br /><strong> Khan wasn't his fucking name, it was a self-granted title. His name was Noonien Singh, first & last, not a hyphenated family name.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Citation needed? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,16,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:08 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Jesus, I been knew that since the mid-80s. I know I read it somewhere...probably in some long-lost article interview. In any event, the name hs never been hyphenated, & even were I to stipulate to Khan being his given name, we all known why Noonien was used (twice). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Krenim</b> <br /><small>Member # 22</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,16,11,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:11 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shik:<br /><strong> Jesus, I been knew that since the mid-80s. I know I read it somewhere...probably in some long-lost article interview. In any event, the name hs never been hyphenated, & even were I to stipulate to Khan being his given name, we all known why Noonien was used (twice). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, I'm with you on the hyphenation thing. I don't know why that suddenly started being a thing in SNW. But I've never heard of Khan not being his given name. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Zipacna</b> <br /><small>Member # 1881</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,5,30,17,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">June 30, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:27 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Spike:<br /><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I mean why would Khan use the Gregorian Calendar?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He never did. All 1990s references were made by Spock and Kirk.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hate to be that guy, but...ackchyually in Khan's third line in TWoK he states that Botany Bay was launched in 1996.<br /><br /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Captain! Captain! Save your strength. These people have sworn to live and die at my command two hundred years before you were born. Do you mean he never told you the tale? To amuse your Captain? No? Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space in the year 1996, myself and the ship's company in cryogenic freeze?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <br /><br />That said TWoK also says it's been 15-years since "Space Seed" (set in 2267), has a bottle of "old" Romulan Ale from 2283, and is usually given as set in 2285...so clearly the timeline in that movie has a few issues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /><br /> <br /> <small>[ June 30, 2023, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Zipacna ]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,1,14,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 01, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:50 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Huh. Never noticed (or forgot) that he does actually say 1996. But you can’t die on the hill of his saying so while hand-waving away that he repeatedly refers to those events as “two hundred years ago” when it’s closer to approximately 285 years and well into “nearly three hundred years ago” rounding up.<br /><br />And, yeah, citation still needed on the Khan name thing… <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,1,19,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 01, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I wish I could remember where I read it. It was basically saying that his name was Noonien Singh, & that he took the title Khan as his due when he took over South Asia. It makes sense regardless, because we don't refer to such people by their first names, only their last or their titles. No one talks about Adolf or Vladimir or Zedong or Jong-Il or...well, okay, Fidel & Ché & Saddam, but you get my drift. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,1,20,12,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 01, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:12 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah but there’s nothing canon, right? He’s introduced as Khan Noonien Singh, and referred to ever after as Khan. And not by people who’re minded to respectfully refer to him by his title - if that what it is, which I doubt. Like, Kirk. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Zipacna</b> <br /><small>Member # 1881</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,1,20,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 01, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> About the only reference to Khan's title/name I can find is from the Greg Cox's novels, where Khan adopts the epithet "Khan" only after he decides to do what we do every night, Pinky...try to take over the world. Until then he's Noonien Singh, or just Noon to his mother and Gary Seven. That's about as good a citation I can find, albeit one that isn't canon.<br /><br />"Space Seed" isn't much help either, as he's technically introduced as just Khan and referred to as "Mr. Khan" at one point. It's only after Kirk works out who he is that Khan's full name is mentioned. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Spike</b> <br /><small>Member # 322</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,3,9,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 03, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:28 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And not by people who’re minded to respectfully refer to him by his title</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On one hand it seems rather rude to call him by his first name, but on the other hand they should say "The Khan" when talking about him. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,3,20,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 03, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> So obviously I looked on Wikipedia. Two people listed with Khan as a first name, both essentially names they assumed. So no actual genuine Asian precedent that I can locate.<br /><br />But if Khan is a first name he was given by people - scientists, likely - clueless as to the etymology and tone-deaf when it comes to notions of cultural appropriation, then it makes a kind of sense.<br /><br />Madonna (Louise Ciccone)<br />Prince (Rogers Nelson)<br />Count Arthur Strong? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>FawnDoo</b> <br /><small>Member # 1421</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,5,17,33,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 05, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:33 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shik:<br /><strong> Khan wasn't his fucking name, it was a self-granted title. His name was Noonien Singh, first & last, not a hyphenated family name.<br /><br />Well, at least they're finally fucking admitting this is all AU. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In Space Seed, when asked who he is, he replies "Khan is my name." It's in the scene where Kirk visits him in sickbay not long after he holds the knife to McCoy's throat. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,5,21,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 05, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:49 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://64.media.tumblr.com/66a229037cd920058da46235eb56b9e8/4f5b37f98db0ae91-eb/s500x750/59915d1f1a5dd16f9af081984362180eebcfdb43.gif" alt=" - " /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,7,16,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:42 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://i.imgflip.com/qcmgj.jpg" alt=" - " /><br /><br />It’s a conceit somewhat akin to accepting that the James Bond we see in every film between Dr. No and - depending on who you ask - A View To A Kill, Licence To Kill, or Die Another Day is the “same” person regardless of the actor playing him. That the future portrayed in Star Trek is OUR future. So we pretend that occasional changes (no Eugenics Wars in the 199s) can somehow occur without disrupting the overall flow of the timeline.<br /><br />(I mean, as if. If anything we’re the Mirror Universe. Any Vulcans show up here, they’re getting deaded pretty-much immediately)<br /><br />So Khan having a title for a first name is odd, but it’s the only explanation that can exist given its established canon usage. So no it makes no sense but as evidence for some sort of AU it’s insufficient. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Hobbes</b> <br /><small>Member # 138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,8,19,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:08 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lee:<br /><strong> It’s a conceit somewhat akin to accepting that the James Bond we see in every film between Dr. No and - depending on who you ask - A View To A Kill, Licence To Kill, or Die Another Day is the “same” person regardless of the actor playing him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know it's been said before, I liked the theory that 'James Bond' was a code name attached to the 007 designation. Like Connery's Bond was really named Richard Brown, or Daniel Craig's Bond was really named Matt Decker, etc...but they say James Bond to keep their families safe.<br /><br />Then Skyfall happened and wiped out that theory. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Lee</b> <br /><small>Member # 393</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2023,6,8,20,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2023</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Given Casino Royale was plainly a reboot, it doesn’t preclude all the previous Bonds applying to that theory. But the fact that there is no indication of it in any of the pre-CR canon, andthey’re unlikely to return to that timeline (or then again they might, who knows?) to even retcon that that’s what is going on, rules it out I think.<br /><br />Plus there are things in Lazenby’s & Moore’s films which reference things that happened to their predecessors in the role as having happened to them - when Lazenby clears out his office it’s full of stuff from Connery films; Moore visits Tracy’s grave and is attacked by someone plainly meant to be Blofeld (and Dalton is also established as a widower).<br /><br />The timeline of the Craig films is interesting. CR came out and is set in 2006 (Vesper’s grave in NTTD confirms that). QoS carries straight on from CR give or take a week or three. But it’s when Skyfall happens that it gets really interesting. Spectre happens a short while after Skyfall; and the pre-credits part of NTTD shortly after Spectre. The latter part of NTTD happens in approximately 2020 (it’s when the film was meant to have been released, after all) - and quite explicitly five years after the first part!<br /><br />So what? Well:<br /><br />- CR (released 2006): set in 2006<br />- QoS (2008): also 2006 - the weather in Siena looks summery, as did the weather throughout CR, so I think it’s the same year.<br />- Skyfall (2012): 2014 or 2015? hard to tell what time of year it’s set; London doesn’t look wintery but Scotland does (but it is Scotland!).<br />- Spectre (2015): 2014 or 2015? Day of the Dead is in November.<br />- NTTDa (2021): early-mid 2015 or 2016.<br />- NTTDb (2021): 2020 or 2021?<br /><br />The point of this is, there is potentially a seven- or eight-year gap between QoS and Skyfall. And there is so much in the latter which underlines it. Bond is knackered, worn out, jaded. <br /><br />So, just think of the stories that happened during that time, the adventures he had. In my (ugh) headcanon, a lot of the previous films or the books they’re based on, suitably updated chronologically, could have taken place during those years. OK not any of the ones with Blofeld or Spectre obviously, but some of them!<br /><br />And that’s a shame. Craig was a good Bond, could have stood to see a few more straight adventures WITH him rather than just the films we got ABOUT him. A lot of the fault lies with Quantum of Solace: there’s the germ of a really good film in there. But it’s missing half an hour of vital plot development, thanks to the 2008 writer’s strike. That they wouldn’t delay the release to fix the problems, were emphatic it HAD to come out on time, is a cruel irony given what happened with No Time To Die. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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